Originally posted by ionsawmill
I would have to say that I agree with Bill. I for one would love to be honest with my co-workers, my friends, my family, etc. about swinging. For that matter, there are a lot of people I would love to be honest with about other things in my life. I wish we lived in a world where I could be openly Atheist at work and not lose my job; where I could be honest about the lifestyle with my friends and not be thought a freak; where I could openly bisexual with my family and not be disowned. If Bill has the guts to let the world, including his children, know about the parts of his life that we are all afraid to share, then I think that deserves applause.
You may think of me as a rather intolerant individual, but that's the furthest thing from the truth. However, there's a big difference between intolerance and not wishing to be made privy of every single nuance of other people's lives. I could care less if you're an Athiest, Muslim, Christian, Buddist, or if you worship doorknobs, but that doesn't mean I want to hear a daily mantra about it on the job. And I suspect those who DO lose their jobs over such issues don't lose them because of their beliefs, but because they simply can't resist inserting plugs into conversations each chance they get. Believe me, I've known some real militant types who apparently can't think of anything BUT their pet cause.
Like Bill, I think that children need only need to know what is appropriate for their age and maturity and the current thinking in child psychology is to tell children the truth when they ask for it, but only when they ask for it. Bill obviously, from his statements, hasn't been open with his children about swinging. He only says that he will "tell [his] children about swinging and that we do it, but if they don't express an interest in it that will be as far as it goes". I can see nothing wrong with that.
Again, why would Bill volunteer such personal information with his children? If you've been following this thread from the beginning, that's indeed what he's talking about. If at some future date his kids come across something that looks suspicious, whether it be an email or something along those lines, then he can decide whether or not to come clean. What Bill's talking about is making certain his kids know. Big difference.
My own parents were not open about their sexual histories, including the fact that my father had a child out of wedlock during a previous relationship. When I found out, in my early 20's, I wasn't shocked by his behavior, but I was hurt that he didn't trust me to understand the situation. Once I understood what had happened to him, I understood so much about why he had raised me the way he did.
This begs all sorts of possible scenarios. Are you suggesting dad confide in his son that he occasionally has the secretary bent over his desk? Or that mom tells her kids she once got drunk and did it with their daddy's brother? Do you really want to know the complete sexual history of your parents? I sure as hell don't, know more than I want them to know mine.
What is it with this obsessive need to 'fess up everything to everyone?
I can understand the you would "feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with [your] 76 year old mother" but I have to tell you that if you have children, your mother has a pretty good idea that you have sex. Knowing that you exist, I would say that odds are your mother had sex too, and you know it. Is having that knowledge incestuous? Is it incestuous to admit that your parents and your children are sexual beings just like you?
Sorry, this one stretches the boundries of the imagination. Knowing someone has sex and involving them in your sexual activities by taking them to a club are two different things, and you know it. My mother has daily bodily functions like the rest of us, but that doesn't mean I want to hear a blow by blow description either. Or am I being close minded on THAT too?
The mother in question at this probably knew that her son was already having sex and wanted to introduce her son to an option that most 21 year olds don't have: a safer alternative to out and out promiscuity*. For all I know, she may have just wanted to take him out and get him drunk on his 21st, and that was her favorite watering hole. Who knows.
Ah yes, the good old "safe alternative". Shucks, they're gonna do it anyway, so why not make sure they do it RIGHT. Nothing like watching ma gettin' all hot 'n steamy with other men to set sonny on the right track.
Maybe she just wanted to get him drunk for his 21st B day? And here I thought she had no redeeming qualities as a mother.
My question would be this: what would happen if one of your children showed up at a swinger function with his or her significant other while you were already there, having independently explored the idea of swinging without knowing you were a swinger? Playing amateur psychologist, I would say that you are either embarrased by your involvement in the lifestyle, or you've raised your children to be intolerant of people with different ideas about what is right and wrong sexually and you fear their disapproval.
If one of our children showed up at a function, we'd probably either faint of embarrassment, or have a coronary. But the difference is, Ion, the embarrassment would be born of the fact we've strived to keep our sexual lives completely separated from our kids, and theirs as adults from us. You'll probably think this makes us hypocrites, but not at all. It only further illustrates our natural instinct to insolate our children from our private sexual activities.
There's that word again, "intolerant". I'm beginning to honestly think that means anyone with any limits whatsoever. At least in this context anyway.
Like many people, I don't tell everyone about my interest in swinging because I fear the repercussions; loss of job, friends, family. While you may not agree with Bill, I think we can both agree that of the three of us, he is probably less likely to end up in an embarassing situation or suffer a heart attack from the stress of living a double life.
So telling anyone who'll listen about your sex life will contribute to longevity? Kudos Ion, for providing a new and unique twist to the argument. I guess confession is indeed good for the soul, and the heart.
I may be going out on a limb here, but I don't think Bill was suggesting having sex with our children, having sex in the same room with our children, or discussing all the gory details of our sex lives with our children. Bill simply believes what he is doing is right and good and is intent on raising his children to believe like he does. That's what we expect all parents to do.
No, I realize Bill wasn't suggesting having sex in the same room as your children (although at this point, I'm not sure he'd discount it either. Intolerance, you know). But taking your kids to a swingers club is going beyond simply making them privy to what mom and dad do on Saturday nights. Can we agree on that much?
*(due to the lower incedence of STD's in the swinger community) [/B]