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  1. #1
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    Default Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    We made a mistake with a newbie couple recently.

    Some background on us. When we go to a large party, we tend to mingle a lot. Doesn't matter who we arrived with or who we plan on playing with later, we are going to mingle. Talk, kiss and touch all sorts of people we know and maybe some we just met. That's why we are at the large party. If we didnt want to mingle, we wouldnt go. One of the few rules we have in the lifestyle is non exclusivity. We refuse to be exclusive with anyone else. We reserve the right to kiss and touch whomever we desire. So if we are at a party and there are 10 people we are friendly with, so be it. It doesnt mean we dont have a favorite, it doesnt mean we arent going to still play with whomever we have set up plans with, it just means that is what we like and that's why we attend a party. If we want to solo it for the night, we dont go to a lifestyle party.

    We know that isnt how everyone does it though, some people like to stay attached to their planned playdates all night, and some even like to stay attached to the people they arrived with, even if no play is planned for later. To each their own.

    So, what happened is we met a new couple for drinks and chatting (nothing else happened) before the party. We had talked a bit with them through text and website mail before this, and had briefly met them the previous week at a party.
    Then, it's time to go to the party and we all waited for the shuttle ride over there (along with a bunch of others). By this time we had spoken with them about our plans for the party and how we enjoy it. They seemed to understand, but I guess they didnt. The female was fine, the male half didnt grasp this though even though he agreed also.
    Anyway, we get to the party, and again we say a quick "nice meeting you, if we dont see you again have fun!" type of thing. We did introduce them to a few people while waiting for the shuttle, but they quickly went on their own way and we lost track of them upon arriving (typical larger party, few hundred people, dark noisy bar..). Saw them here and there during the party, said a few words here and there, kept mingling.

    So the night goes along, we enjoy ourselves, and we head back to the hotel. We were thinking about what to do and if we should play with anyone or what. And then the mr half texts us with something a bit unhappily odd. So we invited them to our room (knowing that this was blowing our chances of playing with anyone else mind you) to talk about it.

    They come to our room, and then the Mr half of them lambasts us for being rude and treating them poorly by leaving them out to hang all night.

    At first we were taken aback, we all had a bit to drink, so I asked again to clarify the issue. More ranting. Then we said we were sorry, we didnt realize they didnt understand what we said earlier. And then he started to rant again, and I'd had enough. I told him do you recall what I said early on. He says yes. So then I asked , ok what's the problem?
    He then finally admitted that it was a bit disconcerting to him that he couldnt "win over" my wife to the point of having her stay by his side all night, and part of that might have been that his wife seems rather interested in me, even though it's her coming onto me, he still probably feels a bit jealous or something. He had the expectation that we were going to go further, even though neither of us said anything towards that (hell him and my wife never even kissed yet, he never even made the move..) , it's just how it worked when he used to date.
    Well we said this isnt dating, and it's not how we work, not to mention we already said that isnt in the plans.

    We then went through a few examples of past experiences, and also said having drinks is not equal to saying yes to sex. Unless someone is in your room and their clothes are off and you are having sex while they say yes, dont count on sex. He demeanor was softening by this time, and he conceded that he probably went overboard with how he was talking.

    And there it was. Poor expectations ended up pretty much ruining his night from what we gather. He stewed all night at the party, and was really pissed by the time the party was done.
    Still bewilders me why he didnt say anything early on at the party when we saw them, but who knows.

    The thing is, this kind of drama-ish crap happens all the time. Usually though the people that feel slighted will never tell you, instead they just avoid you or vanish, and once in a while they probably gossip about it instead. We've all heard those stories.

    So, we decided we really need to state our plans very clearly and probably a few times to anyone, especially newbies. We figure that if stating our plans pisses someone off, at least it will happen before the party instead of after. We've done this before, and usually do it with everyone. Just last week my wife brought along her favored playmate to a bar meet, and we made it clear to him that she wouldnt be "exclusive". She was going to arrive and leave with him, but had no plans on going out yet avoiding others. He didnt initially like hearing this, but has accepted it. It's a marriage rule for us, the only people we are exclusive with is ourselves. Nobody else will dictate that to us.

  2. #2
    Julie's Helper funcoupledayton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    I think you did everything right. We have experienced a similar thing but didn't get called out on it, so no drama except for us feeling uneasy about the situation. I asked about it in a thread and the consensus was that meeting for dinner or drinks before going to a club or party implies greater potential for play. http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...w-couples.html

    I think it can be hard because many people do like to nail down their play partners for the night so they don't have the stress of figuring out how to pair off later. Then they feel they have to cling the whole evening to fend off other "contenders"
    Last edited by funcoupledayton; 06-27-2011 at 11:53 AM. Reason: add link to previous post

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    Yeah, that is why we do tell them what to expect. But we weren't clear enough I guess. Oddly his wife (who was very much into me and was really looking for more) didnt seem to be bothered by this at all.

    A lot of people definitely like to nail down post party playdates. We have been reluctant, mostly because we rarely have the babysitting capacity on a party night, and the clinging aspect also is a big turn off for us.

  4. #4
    Never up.....never in WildMiCouple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    I think the key here is that they were newbies. Newbies lack the experience to know what to expect. So it's easy to see why they might not have completely understood what you were telling them over drinks prior to the party. As you've concluded, stating it clearly and precisely should keep the problem from happening again We often talk here how communication is very important between a couple........this shows it's pretty important with the other couple too.

    Brett
    Take it easy baby......but take as much as you can.

  5. #5
    Swap Meet Enthusiast Dont.Stop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    There was a thread no too long ago about just this. It's funny how many people (not necessarily newbies) want to stake their claim and follow another couple the whole night. As newbies ourselves we realized we'd done the same thing at a recent party.

    The next week at a different party it was different. While I'd found someone (or she found me, whichever) early on, I didn't cling to her that night. We eventually made it into a room and we've been great friends ever since.

    Funny how swinging is all about not owning someone, but at a party people forget. Sucks that for someone else to learn it killed a night for you.
    You say "oral fixation" like it's a bad thing!

  6. #6
    Swingers Board Addict twistedpretzels's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    The more I read about cpl's individual expectations and rules the more cpl rules/expectations I learn about. I think you did a great job and I hope they appreciated your time to communicate with them and your neutrality.

  7. #7
    Swingers Board Addict TheSwingerSet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    We are much the same way, we like to meet new people and rarely set up play time before a party starts. What we have started to do however is, if we find people that we are intrested in playing with we will nail down the logistics early on in the evening. As hosts we have found that if we don't, then people will not realize that we will be at the party until it's over, and either leave with out us or not get contact info from us to meet later.
    Happy swinging!!
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    Ok as a complete noob I would feel similar to how that guy felt. Now I wouldn't say anything but I certainly would cut ties.

    Taking the swinging element out: When people go to a party together there is an essence of a group event. Yes everyone goes out and mingles but there is still a feeling of a 'home base'. Where members of the group meet up from time to time to resocialize. Now it is not forced but a natural phenomenom to come back and visit with the people you came with, as you are part of a whole. When you guys met for the pre party drinks the group element was implied imo. All that means is the feeling of attending the party together nothing more.

    To be honest, I just dont understand the intention of meeting for drinks and sharing a shuttle, only to arrive at the party and disassociate yourselves from them. In that case why not just meet them there?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex855 View Post
    Ok as a complete noob I would feel similar to how that guy felt. Now I wouldn't say anything but I certainly would cut ties.

    Taking the swinging element out: When people go to a party together there is an essence of a group event. Yes everyone goes out and mingles but there is still a feeling of a 'home base'. Where members of the group meet up from time to time to resocialize. Now it is not forced but a natural phenomenom to come back and visit with the people you came with, as you are part of a whole. When you guys met for the pre party drinks the group element was implied imo. All that means is the feeling of attending the party together nothing more.
    I do agree with this statement. However, this was a swing event and one of the purposes of it is to meet others and make connections. They should have just started mingling and enjoy the night. It sounds like they spelled that out in the beginning and it should have been clear. Who knows, if they had played it better they could have gone home with multiple couples

  10. #10
    Not a potential *** Chicup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    This is completely understandable in light of it being a newbie couple.

    You are very anxious, nervous, turned on, and scared shitless. You meet a couple and decide to your courage and do it. They seem nice and then just "ditch" you at the big party on the big night. You are hurt, you are mad that they blew off your wife who you were willing to share, your ego took one in the cajones.

    It's being experienced in swinging which makes us immune to these things because they have already happened to us on one side or the other. We know that you don't have expectations going in, and to rather expect nothing to happen than expect play time.

    On our swing cruise we spoke via email to a couple, meet them on the cruise, and seemed to hit it off. They we're both a bit below our usual strike zone but seemed nice enough and we wanted to enjoy ourselves. We did some light play but they never sealed the deal. It was apparent she wasn't into me for some reason, at least how I see it, perhaps I was below her strike zone as well . They never said no just they were always somewhere else when playtime would be good (and at on point my wife asked point blank to the guy so it wasn't a miscommunication, he said he would ask his wife they never brought it up again). They were always friendly, talked about how they played with a couple, and the guy kept asking if we played with anyone for the rest of the cruise.

    If we were newbies I think we would have taken this very personally and very badly. We would have been on this big swinger event, even did some soft stuff, and then this couple was obviously blowing us off when it came to play time! They even had the gall to as mention that they played with another couple!

    But being we are not new we knew there could be a dozen reasons they didn't play with us and many would not be our fault. We were not upset, and in fact realized that we were not that keen to play with them either and were glad it didn't work out.

    My long rambling story is just to illustrate the difference between a newbie couple and a vet in these matters. I think we must always remember how stressful your first time can be.

  11. #11
    Swingers Board Addict swing.kidz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    So, what do you call it when the newbies are "blowing off" the veterans? haha!

  12. #12
    Swingers Board Addict Tia Vampire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    When we are out at a house party, having sex with a couple is our goal, but not expected. You can tell which couples are also looking to play. Those couples will be more outgoing and when you speak with them you can hear the excitement in their voice about the idea of the four of you getting together. If there is any hesitation, this is a couple that you may not want to flirt with as much, move the conversation in a direction of meeting up at a later time in a more 1 on 1 atmosphere. Then you move on to the next couple. Playing mind games is not our cup of tea. We would like to find more couples that just come straight out with what they want and are looking for in the lifestyle. Yes, you do find this with the more experienced swingers. we have met couples that do not seem to know what they want. Those couples we have walked away from and never returned to that potencial can of drama. The longer you are in the lifestyle, of course the more experienced you will become.

  13. #13
    Swap Meet Enthusiast Dont.Stop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    We're going to a party in a couple weeks. There's a woman I've been flirting with (and vice versa) for a week or so, and we went and met her and her hubby the other night when they happened to be in town (for another reason). They will be attending the party as well.

    Though they are far more experienced than we, I'm still going to drop her a line and say "Hey, it's a party. I don't assume we will hook up. If we do that's fine, and if we don't, that's fine too."

    Leave room for spontaneity. Leave room for choices. We can always set up a private date.
    You say "oral fixation" like it's a bad thing!

  14. #14
    Julie's Helper funcoupledayton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Dont.Stop View Post
    We're going to a party in a couple weeks. There's a woman I've been flirting with (and vice versa) for a week or so, and we went and met her and her hubby the other night when they happened to be in town (for another reason). They will be attending the party as well.

    Though they are far more experienced than we, I'm still going to drop her a line and say "Hey, it's a party. I don't assume we will hook up. If we do that's fine, and if we don't, that's fine too."

    Leave room for spontaneity. Leave room for choices. We can always set up a private date.
    Personally, if they are experienced I wouldn't say anything like that in an email ahead of time. It just doesn't seem necessary, and to me gives the vibe that you're really not that interested. Just my opinion, but if you do want to hook up I think this hurts your chances. Like you said, "leave room for spontaneity!"

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Expectations and the mess they can cause between couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex855 View Post
    Ok as a complete noob I would feel similar to how that guy felt. Now I wouldn't say anything but I certainly would cut ties.

    Taking the swinging element out: When people go to a party together there is an essence of a group event. Yes everyone goes out and mingles but there is still a feeling of a 'home base'. Where members of the group meet up from time to time to resocialize. Now it is not forced but a natural phenomenom to come back and visit with the people you came with, as you are part of a whole. When you guys met for the pre party drinks the group element was implied imo. All that means is the feeling of attending the party together nothing more.

    To be honest, I just dont understand the intention of meeting for drinks and sharing a shuttle, only to arrive at the party and disassociate yourselves from them. In that case why not just meet them there?
    Well, the thing is we didnt disassociate ourselves from them at the party. We talked with them about how we handle large parties, and then we were still near them when arriving at the party (this was a big limo shuttle too, about 15 of us on there, it was running nonstop between the hotel and party all night long), and then they went inside before us. And when we got inside, we didnt even see them. It was a rather dark place, so it wasnt too shocking, and to be honest we didnt run around and try to find them, just scanned the area a bit and continued on with our night.

    The reason we met them for dinner before the party was because we knew the party was going to be dark (and loud music) and as such it's not really the optimum place to meet someone and get to know them.
    We did mention this to them in email, and they agreed. They had experience with that the week prior at a bar meet, good place to touch and smile, bad place to talk, just too dang loud. They found that frustrating, which is why they were so happy to meet for dinner before the party.

    They did contact us yesterday and said they really liked dinner and that they were sorry that they overreacted, and we again reiterated that we were sorry about the misunderstanding. So who knows. We hold no issue with them, just a newbie mistake and we failed to really make sure they understood our viewpoint The mrs also started texting me yesterday , although I have to say im a bit leery to continue until I see the mr and confirm that he is ok, considering it was really him who had the issue, not her.

    Live and learn. Always something new to witness and figure out.

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