Your DL# is on File

[JustAskJulie]

More and more of the clubs are moving to a computerized system. But even before they did that, many clubs require that you put your DL# on your membership form. Now that more clubs are going computerized not only is your DL# on a piece of paper somewhere it is in their system files.

The last time we visited Menages we found out that they have now moved to this system. We had to renew all our paperwork and added to that is they now use the last four digits of the male's SS# as your member number (no more membership cards just give them your digits at the door).

How do you feel about knowing that your info is on file?

[VegasLee]

I would not go along with them keeping my personal information on file mainly because most people do not know how to properly secure a computer so that others can not access your information.

I am not concerned about a raid by the government getting the information but I would worry about others that would have other use for that information.

To many people want to use simple and cheap methods to secure computers and it is to easy to get into them in todays world.

[good times]

I really don't like it, but I thing it is likely going to be the norm. One of our local clubs recently came to the attention of the local authorities. In the process of helping the club owners through this I have become aware of the work done by the legal profession nation wide to close swingers clubs. what I found out is that the ploy of calling entrance fees "donations" doesn't stand up at all in court. The only thing that might have a chance is if you set up the club as a private membership club. While all the limitations of that would make a book, (the legal brief I obtained on the subject is 39 pages long, if I remember right) one of the requirements to qualify as a "private membership club" is the surprisingly detailed information required to be kept about members. So, I suspect you will be seeing a lot more of this at clubs in the future.

[fun4Ds]

We have never had anything copied so far. Thats new to us. They always just looked at ours and looked at us before. Like at a regular bar or liquor store.

I'll have to reconsider this, and think about it a while.

Ya know, I'm thinking I don't like that at all.

[Pensacolapair]

Our alarm bells go off at any commercial entity that wants to collect and retain personal information in order to patronize them; unless there is what we consider an apparent need we decline. And if they insist on having it without having such a need - no problem... we take that to mean that they don't want our business.

Some examples of what we would consider 'apparent need' would be applying for a job or applying for credit. If we are asking someone to trust us to do a job for them or pay back 50 or 60 thousand dollars, we can understand them wanting a bit more than our word. But there's absolutely no reason Home Depot needs my phone number in order to accept $2 for a box of nails.

Other than a.) they have no valid need for it and b.) it's really none of their businesss, as has been mentioned, most places have incredibly poor data security. Add to that the fact that clubs tend to have a fairly high turnover rate in employees and the risk factor grows.

Probably one of the few desires that is shared by just about everyone in the Lifestyle is that of discretion... and now clubs want information that will not only allow someone to potentially 'know your biz', but that could also easily fall into the hands of identity thieves.

Interesting concept.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by good times

I really don't like it, but I thing it is likely going to be the norm. One of our local clubs recently came to the attention of the local authorities. In the process of helping the club owners through this I have become aware of the work done by the legal profession nation wide to close swingers clubs. what I found out is that the ploy of calling entrance fees "donations" doesn't stand up at all in court. The only thing that might have a chance is if you set up the club as a private membership club. While all the limitations of that would make a book, (the legal brief I obtained on the subject is 39 pages long, if I remember right) one of the requirements to qualify as a "private membership club" is the surprisingly detailed information required to be kept about members. So, I suspect you will be seeing a lot more of this at clubs in the future.

Those are very good points GT. I don't know what all requirements there are to be considered a private membership club but now that you mention I would imagine they would be lengthy and would include a complete accounting of said members.

For the record they did not copy the DL, they just took the #, it was just one of the many pieces of information required in the membership application.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

GT speaks with a straight tongue....

Withouth getting into all the intricacies , "Private" Club Memeberships are a way around the B.S. That being said, it's all about how much you faith you have in the folks running the gig.

[two4youinswva]

I am sure this varies state to state.

Now, this is what I can tell you about the rules here in VA as I understand it:

The clubs here are generally off-premises. I am not aware of an on-premises club in the state. There could be one, I just don't know about it if there is.
So, what follows is the off-premises rules:

The way to qualify for an ABC (alcohol) license is to submit a request for a single use "banquet" license. Private clubs are allowed to do this.
One of the requirements to obtain the license is to have every member's name, address, age, etc. on file. You don't have to turn it in, but they can request to see the list for verification purposes. The club we regularly attend maintains this file, but I believe they only keep hard copies, just because of the privacy factor involved.
I don't think a license number is required, but a valid ID must be checked and verified by the host/hostess. I could be wrong about this though. It's been a while.

Oh, and to drift slightly off topic, if you serve alcohol in VA, then there can be no nudity (I know, bummer dude).

Virginia is pretty tight on this stuff. If we cross the border into NC, it's a lot more lax in some ways.

[lovinher]

This sort of thing has become the norm because poeple go along with it and don't speak up.

[Thron&Thor]

Just be aware that when it cums to keeping your lifestyle private at the Socials, private clubs and other publishied parties there is no personal privacy. "People" who want to know who attends hotel socials, cruises, get-away-parties acquire the information and may or may not find a reason to use that information in another forum...as soon as you register at the door or at the desk your information will be shared with "whomever" demands of the hotel or cruise or club owner(s)..."whomever" usually applies to people who either have the legal power or resources to "troll" for person(s) who can then be levered to whatever purpose that pertains to that person(s)...it happens without any general awareness except to the person(s) affected.

So when you sign up with your D/L or credit card or SSN# you become a "public" swinger. The private clubs are NOT private now, so hold on to your already developed buddies they will becum more precious than ever now.

[WesternSwing]

This is an issue with nearly clubs of all type now days. Even our favorite bars and night clubs have started using the PDF417 type of barcoding used on the backs of our drivers licenses here in Utah. All the information on the front is included in the PDF417 barcode. And like Lee says, most night clubs and bars don't have the security software necessary to adequately protect that data. Hell, I've seen the door person at nightclubs leave the last patron's profile up on the monitor, and many people can get a good look at all that information.

How to change it though? I don't know, other than just don't go out anywhere.

Mr. WS

[cplnuswing]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

The last time we visited Menages we found out that they have now moved to this system. We had to renew all our paperwork and added to that is they now use the last four digits of the male's SS# as your member number (no more membership cards just give them your digits at the door).

We weren't thrilled with it, but something along those lines seems to be a common thing in all facets of life now.

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

How to change it though? I don't know, other than just don't go out anywhere.

I don't think there is any going back at this point. Enough people accept it, at least grudgingly, I can't see it ever changing. I see it as a calculated risk and one of those things that if someone wants to try hard enough, they'll get you no matter what. I always figure there is safety in numbers too, the more that are on the list, the lower the chances you yourself could get screwed.

[jimmigeorge]

Have not intro myself as of yet. But this thread really sparked my interest!! Due to my driving record I will not get my license back for 8mos. Giving my SS number on a job app is something I will not do until I have been offered the position. Not sexually speaking HERE!! As most have said the security personal info is important. As it is said in the LS is (DISCRETION). Nice reading here will work on intro!!! Met some nice people from SLS TOO!!

[Tom & Bonnie]

This is a problem that many who attempt to open a club are clueless about. Now my comments refer only to private, members only, BYOB clubs

So, here we go....

Swingers club go the private BYOB route as that is the best and safest way to offer a venue for swingers as most laws do not cover them.... yet!

When you have a liquor license you are indeed a public venue no mater how much you claim to be private. And as such you give up many rights, one of those is the ability to allow swingers to behave like swingers, go topless, erotic dancing, touching, petting and sexual activities. When you're private and BYOB you can claim the privacy route and prohibit law enforcement to enter (legally) although they will do whatever the hell they want to. You will have protection of the law after the fact.

By having a membership club you will institute certain formalities that will uphold your status as a private club. Foremost is the one on the membership form that states that you will not be offended by displays of sexual activity and nudity. In Texas at least, check your local laws, that will negate any legal action that could possibly be brought up against the club as long as you can verify that the persons who signed your legal documents (membership form) are who they say they are. In other words, when an undercover couple comes into your club ( and they will) they cannot claim to be offended if they signed the documents and you have a copy of their id on file.

As far as keeping those files private and out of the hands of the government there is a US Supreme court decision (NAACP v State of Alabama) that upheld the right of private associations to privacy and that the government has no business or authority to have access to membership lists.

I hope you understand this confusing post but the bottom line is this... If you attend a club that allows nude displays or sexual activities (on premise) and they do not require your legal names and id's you are at risk of being arrested for public lewd displays. Of course the laws in your state may vary but most are similiar. In Texas the laws state:

§ 21.07. PUBLIC LEWDNESS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he knowingly engages in any of the following acts in a
public place or, if not in a public place, he is reckless about
whether another is present who will be offended or alarmed by his:
(1) act of sexual intercourse;
(2) act of deviate sexual intercourse;
(3) act of sexual contact; or
(4) act involving contact between the person's mouth
or genitals and the anus or genitals of an animal or fowl.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


§ 21.08. INDECENT EXPOSURE. (a) A person commits an
offense if he exposes his anus or any part of his genitals with
intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person, and he
is reckless about whether another is present who will be offended or
alarmed by his act.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 509, ch. 924, § 1, eff. Sept.
1, 1983; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

[Hot Raleigh Cpl]

L and I are very concerned about the proliferation of places wanting information we'd prefer to keep confidential. In some cases, we refuse it.

HOWEVER, we recognize the precarious position club owners are in, and we want to be supportive. We have allowed our DLs to be photocopied at some clubs. We don't like it, but without doing so, we can't get in to play.

S and L, Hot Raleigh Cpl