Have swing clubs become the new zoo?

[Swingercast]

I do not think they have become the new zoo. If you think they have in your area use your power to make them change. Speak to the owners about your concerns and if they are not receptive to change and seem to be catering more to the obnoxious lookie-loo crowd instead of the swinging couples then do not go. It should be obvious after talking with the owner/manager if they are just after the fast cash. Not only tell them you will not be back but tell them you will publisize your experience, attempts to make improvements, and their reactions to all the couples you know....then post it on this board. We need to all stick together on this and not allow a few bad apples keep us out of our clubs.

The club owners that "get it" bend over backwards to listen to their members and keep their couples happy are not the ones that are struggling financially and not the ones that would allow that obnoxious sideline behaviour. The couples clubs we go to are like Tybee described. They have a variety of play areas from open to semi-private to private. These clubs understand and know their members and have figured out the obvious...that we, as a group, have a wide variety of comfort levels and turn ons/turn offs etc. and know that keeping us happy will increase their bottom line. The clubs that DON'T "get it" and are "jumping the shark" for the fast cash...will not be around for long!

We as a group are a fast growing economic force. So, speak up, demand respect and use your power! Allie

[JnCC]

Maybe a better question would be..

"Are swing clubs doing everything they can to be the kinds of places that would make people want to have sex there? Or do the owners seem to be happy with fewer people actually participating, as long as they have a lot of people in attendance?"

OK, that's 2 questions, I know. But look at what's happening at the clubs...

People are being admitted late...long after anybody with a legitimate interest in meeting and socializing with other couples would show up. It's safe to guess why they're showing up late....they have no intention of actually getting to know anybody, much less to play. They're there to watch, period. It might cost the club owners a few bucks, but if they would start enforcing their policy on late arrivals, it would cut down on "lookie-loos" and people who are just interested in watching us "freaks" put on a sex show for their pleasure.

"Limited numbers" of "select, single males?" What a fucking JOKE! How many club owners are in a financial position to turn away $500-$1,000 cash on a Saturday night just to make their club more couples- or play-friendly? The few that are lack the stones to do it. And what do they mean by 'select?" Judging from what we've seen, it means any Bozo who comes through the door who's not wearing a badge, carrying a camera, or puking his guts out. One of the local clubs we belong to has become so popular with married men and transient truck drivers that we're no longer comfortable dressing down in front of them at ANY hour. Bear in mind that my lady-friend is something of an exhibitionist and that I was a card-carrying nudist for 5 years, so it's not like we're "shy" for cripes sakes! We go, we talk to people, we shoot some pool, maybe flash a little tit, and leave. That's IT.

I guess that makes US "lookie-loos" too, eh? Well, tough shit. It's not our job to provide the "adult entertainment" for every mouth-breather, social misfit, and thrill-seeker that wanders through the door. If and when we find a group and a setting in which we're comfortable proceeding further, we will.

Until then...Lookie-Loo! Lookie-Loo!

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Swingercast

Speak to the owners about your concerns and if they are not receptive to change and seem to be catering more to the obnoxious lookie-loo crowd instead of the swinging couples then do not go...Not only tell them you will not be back but tell them you will publisize your experience...then post it on this board.

I did that a couple years ago. Twice, actually. The first time we had a problem at one club, it WAS the manager, who happens to be a single male, and who was apparently somewhat smitten with my female companion. Since he couldn't take the hint that we weren't interested in having him join us, and he was the manager, we left early.

A few weeks later we went back. This time, the manager was nowhere to be seen, but one of his assistants followed us into a group area and wouldn't take the hint to leave us alone, so we asked security to intervene on our behalf. The security man laughed and did nothing, so we again left the premises.

(We later learned that the "assistant" really didn't attend to club to party with his wife. Once there, they usually separated, she to "entertain" the rest of the male staff, he to jack-off on female guests clothing and beds. No wonder none of the male staff wanted to confront him.)

This time, we did as you suggested, and posted both of our experiences in the "club reviews" section of another swingers website. We received several PM's saying that we were not alone in our experience, and that the same thing (with the same people) had happened to them at the club.

Did our review fix the problem? No...but it DID get us kicked out of the club,

The next time we arrived at the club, the manager was ready for us, with a copy of our review in his hand. He told us that if we would retract everything, including mention of the role he played in the first incident, all would be forgiven and we would be allowed to enter. If we didn't, he would ban us from the club.

We came to the conclusion that if he was going to shadow us every time we attended the club, or his assistant was going to jack-off near our bed or on my companions clothes, we'd be better off elsewhere. We left, never to return.

Oh well....

Later, we learned that he had pulled some strings on the other website to get our factual-but-less-than-glowing review of his club removed. So much for journalistic integrity...

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by JnCC

It's not only possible, but one of the best clubs we ever attended did precisely that...had an area where street clothes were not permitted. Lingerie for the women and nudity (or a hand carried towel) for the men was the house rule. We thought it was great, AND, we weren't worried that anybody was hiding a video camera in their lapel.

That's exactly the same rule for the upstairs area in the club I was describing, too. They even provide lockers and keys to store your things for getting partially undressed (down to skivvies), changing into lingerie, or wrapping yourself in a towel that's provided by them. You can be totally nude, if you choose. You have to go through this dressing/undressing area before you get to the open sex area, semi-private sex areas, and private room sex areas. We thought it was a great set-up.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by warkman

Being watched by non participants would be something we would have to (if ever) grow into. Now, it would make us want to run away. Heck, we feel that even if we found a couple to play with, that closed private rooms for each pair (even given the possible problems that could arise) would suit our comfort level best to start. My wife can only envision being with a playmate in a closed room situation. It's too distracting otherwise in our fantasy of how it would all play out (at this point anyway.)

With all due respect, it doesn't sound like a club scene would work for you, unless you are just going to the social area to meet people, make contacts, and take your adventures elsewhere to the privacy of a hotel or a private home. I doubt that there are many on-premise clubs that can offer the level of privacy you described, with no distractions.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

With all due respect, it doesn't sound like a club scene would work for you, unless you are just going to the social area to meet people, make contacts, and take your adventures elsewhere to the privacy of a hotel or a private home. I doubt that there are many on-premise clubs that can offer the level of privacy you described, with no distractions.

Most clubs in our area have rooms with lockable doors.

[warkman]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

With all due respect, it doesn't sound like a club scene would work for you, unless you are just going to the social area to meet people, make contacts, and take your adventures elsewhere to the privacy of a hotel or a private home. I doubt that there are many on-premise clubs that can offer the level of privacy you described, with no distractions.

I think you may be right. There appears to be a dearth of suitable off-premise clubs here just to meet people and talk. And we're in the geater L.A. area! I've checked the forum's club listings and most are on-premise. Forgive me for getting off topic, but do most on-premise clubs have a social area away from the action where you can meet and greet with people in a less sexually charged environment similar to an off-premise club?

[Wishmaster]

It seems you guys have it a lot worse than we do here in the UK. For one thing, we NEVER get groups of girls patrolling the clubs on a voyeurs mission - it just doesn't happen over here and it's rare to find one single woman in a club let alone gangs of them! The single guys have such a bad rap over here that they know if they cause any trouble at all they will be ejected from the club and never allowed back in again.

When playing the rooms are always quiet (apart from the screams and moans from the ladies participating of course). Watchers tend to keep quiet and they know that it WILL spoil the moment for both themselves and the couple/group they are watching. I have often looked up to find several people watching and that's when my 'kinky' hat comes on and I usually select one of them to come and play with us (usually unbeknown to my partner, but she has learned to expect that from me).

Things seem so much more different across the pond and I think it would be quite unnerving for foreigners playing in U.S. clubs for the very first time - it sure as hell wouldn't stop me trying it though

Wishmaster.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Most clubs in our area have rooms with lockable doors.

Dito

Our "home" club has private rooms. It is possible to play unwatched and undistracted.

Spoomonkey

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by warkman

I think you may be right. There appears to be a dearth of suitable off-premise clubs here just to meet people and talk. And we're in the geater L.A. area! I've checked the forum's club listings and most are on-premise. Forgive me for getting off topic, but do most on-premise clubs have a social area away from the action where you can meet and greet with people in a less sexually charged environment similar to an off-premise club?

Hi warkman,

We don't have tons of experience with various on-premise clubs, because there are none where we live - we've had to go out of town to get to them. The one I described in this thread has all of the sex areas upstairs beyond that dressing/undressing area I described. The downstairs area is huge and all about socializing. Of course the later it gets, the more loose things are - sort of like a L.A. club might get late at night, I guess. Women making out, boobies to be seen, really dirty dancing, etc. facelick

This particular on-premise club has a dance floor with live dj, three different bars, jacuzzi area, lingerie shop, pool tables, a buffet dinner area with tables (dinner is included every Friday & Saturday), and during the warm seasons a covered outdoor pool area. So to answer your question, all of these downstairs areas are for socializing and not for having sex. However, the great majority are there to eventually get upstairs, so even though they're polite, it may seem like more of a pressure situation to you if you're new or just looking to make some friends, first. In on-premise clubs people will be inviting you to go upstairs with them. You can always say no, of course.

Off-premise events, which are generally held at "regular" clubs and bars, are very laid-back, fun and friendly. It's all about meeting people on your own and taking your business elsewhere, if you wish to. We do have that here in our town, and they're nice. These events definitely beat the personal ads for meeting people, because if people show up to meet people face-to-face, odds are they're "real" and looking to make connections, too. You also can know immediately if you have any attraction, and not waste all that time emailing people, waiting for picture exchanges, and going on "blind dates". Off-premise socials are more like speed dating - meet lots of couples at once, and see who you like!

[NakedInSeattle]

I was in the "open" room one nite doing the happy with a gal. But first let me say that in this room, you're supposed to be naked and playing with someone, not just lurking. Well, I heard/felt someone join us on the mattress. When I looked over, much to my surprise, there was a m/f couple, fully clothed laying there close enough to feel there breath, staring at the joined bodies (us). I told them "I usually charge for the entertainment." They left and when we finished I went looking for the owners but while looking, I found that the couple was no longer at the club. So it was not possible to point them out.

Mind you, if they had been naked, I would have enjoyed the participation even if just visual but they weren't even adventerous enough to disrobe. They just wanted to watch. I've thought of so many clever things I shoulda said. I can really be clever when I have the time to think about it.....lol.

Thanks for letting me get it off my chest.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by NakedInSeattle

I was in the "open" room one nite doing the happy with a gal. But first let me say that in this room, you're supposed to be naked and playing with someone, not just lurking. Well, I heard/felt someone join us on the mattress. When I looked over, much to my surprise, there was a m/f couple, fully clothed laying there close enough to feel there breath, staring at the joined bodies (us). I told them "I usually charge for the entertainment." They left and when we finished I went looking for the owners but while looking, I found that the couple was no longer at the club. So it was not possible to point them out.

Mind you, if they had been naked, I would have enjoyed the participation even if just visual but they weren't even adventerous enough to disrobe. They just wanted to watch. I've thought of so many clever things I shoulda said. I can really be clever when I have the time to think about it.....lol.

You realize, of course, that what that couple did that night may have been the most sexy, erotic thing that they have ever done together? It's not hard for me to imagine that even now, they think about that night when they're together, and that the memory is a continual source of arousal for them.

It's also not hard for me to imagine that the experience was a sort of "jumping off point" for them, and that they went on to further adventures. Maybe not at your club (for various reasons, many couples prefer to have their first experiences away from home) but somewhere.

I'm really glad that you didn't say anything overtly unpleasant to them. Knowing that it was OK to proceed at a pace that was comfortable for them, and that they wouldn't be considered freaks or pervs for wanting to explore their sexuality with other couples in close proximity, probably did more to advance the lifestyle than you realize.

It's important to remember that every person who participates in an "alternative lifestyle" becomes a de facto "Ambassador" for that lifestyle. What you say and how you treat people, especially new people, has a lot to do with how they regard this lifestyle and whether or not they'll ever come back.

You handled this situation with a lot of class. Thanks...

[couplenlove]

we have never been to a club, we plan on going to one soon, but I would feel horrible if i couldn't have my cell phone. I have kids!!! while I don't have a camera on my phone I am always accessible to my children. The are old enough to stay alone while we go play but not old enough to handle an emergency. (16 & 13) I have a neighbor who keeps an eye on my house while we're gone and if they need immediate help she is there but they still need a way to contact us if something should happen.(god forbid), I would not like folks taking pics of me but I think there needs to be a balance for the parent, It's not like I can give my kids the # to the club. they are old enough to figure that out. since we have never been to a club we probably would want to watch and not participate the first time. we are still going to go, the club owner I spoke with is going to have a "host couple" to show us around and make introductions, answer questions and such for @ least the first hour we are there, she said if we have problems or questions the other couples we are introduced to by the "host couple" will help if they are busy. They are all members of the club. I feel great about that! so maybe having a certain amount of accountability by the club members to the newbies would keep them @ bay if they are only there to watch. you could spend an hour with them and know if they are real Swingers or lookie loos. I was informed that the first 2 times we can go to the club and not participate after that if we come back we need to at least get nude if nothing else, that sounds reasonable to me. you are given a pass with an access # so they know how many times you have been there. if you don't have an access # you don't get in the door. I think that is a good idea too. although we are extremely new to the lifestyle we feel we have chosen a quality place to explore. this is my first post.

[tribbles]

http://www.swinglifestyle.com/

warkman- check here for more off premise clubs in your area...I see quite a few in the OC

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by couplenlove

we have never been to a club, we plan on going to one soon, but I would feel horrible if i couldn't have my cell phone. I have kids!!! while I don't have a camera on my phone I am always accessible to my children. The are old enough to stay alone while we go play but not old enough to handle an emergency. (16 & 13) I have a neighbor who keeps an eye on my house while we're gone and if they need immediate help she is there but they still need a way to contact us if something should happen.(god forbid), I would not like folks taking pics of me but I think there needs to be a balance for the parent, It's not like I can give my kids the # to the club. they are old enough to figure that out. since we have never been to a club we probably would want to watch and not participate the first time. we are still going to go, the club owner I spoke with is going to have a "host couple" to show us around and make introductions, answer questions and such for @ least the first hour we are there, she said if we have problems or questions the other couples we are introduced to by the "host couple" will help if they are busy. They are all members of the club. I feel great about that! so maybe having a certain amount of accountability by the club members to the newbies would keep them @ bay if they are only there to watch. you could spend an hour with them and know if they are real Swingers or lookie loos. I was informed that the first 2 times we can go to the club and not participate after that if we come back we need to at least get nude if nothing else, that sounds reasonable to me. you are given a pass with an access # so they know how many times you have been there. if you don't have an access # you don't get in the door. I think that is a good idea too. although we are extremely new to the lifestyle we feel we have chosen a quality place to explore. this is my first post.

Welcome to the board!

Putting aside the "balance for the parent" for a moment, what will you do with your phone during your third visit to the club, when you are supposed to take off all your clothes? Strap the phone to your thigh?

You may feel that you have to be available every minute by phone, but the people getting naked and having sex have a right to know they are not going to be photographed. Your phone may not have a camera, but that is difficult to tell without inspecting it, which is clearly not going to work for most people. Most phones have cameras these days, so it is a good assumption. Photographs aside, a phone ringing in a play area is not cool at all.

The people in the club have a reasonable expectation that cell phones will not be present when they are not clothed. I'm willing to bet almost everyone will join me in thinking that that expectation outweighs your desire to be immediately available every minute. Remember, ten years ago parents went out all the time without cell phones, and we're all still breathing.