Have swing clubs become the new zoo?

[jcbicouple]

There has been an increase in the number of people just there to watch at our club too. For the most part, we don't mind. We've met some great people to talk and dance with. We enjoy being watched, and usually play in the group room where watching is encouraged. The club has private rooms with doors, if privacy is desired. While we agree that a large number of long term "lookers" could be an issue, everyone has to start somewhere. Very few people wake up one day, say "hey honey, lets be swingers" , run to a club that night, and jump in bed with strangers. Everyone progresses at different speeds. There are several people at the club that watched for a long time, and now regularly use the play rooms. Besides, on the busy nights, there wouldn't be enough beds if everyone decided to play at once.

[northindycpl]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I think it is the "new zoo" in a lot of ways. And while I am a bit of an exhibitionist and don't mind being watched, I at least want to plan for it - ask for it - and be prepared to play to a crowd. On this night - we locked the doors and pulled the curtain/walls for a reason.

I don't have a problem with couples who want to voyuer. On the other hand, there should be some common sense involved.
Spoomonkey

Dito

We haven't been to any club in awhile, but it does seem that more and more watching occurs. Personally, I like to watch as much as I like to be watched. But it isn't a given invitation to disrupt my good time.

Oh.... and the fake wall thing.... the club we frequent did the same type of room creation with black curtains. Although the concept is ok, it is challenging and uncontrollable. I dislike it very much, too.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by She_n_Jaybee

The problem we run into are the cheerleaders or commentators, that could take some lessons from golf commentators. It seems that every visit to a club there is one person that's never learned to moderate their volume.

That drives me insane. And it is the "oh yeah baby ride that thing that annoys me". If you're going to sit there and watch, "shut the F up". Worse yet is when they start calling for position changes so they can see better.
....

Originally Posted by She_n_Jaybee

My thoughts have always ben that the play areas should be treated like a church in regards to conversation. Keep it to a whisper and don't interrupt the religious experiences taking place.

Amen!

Originally Posted by rpu3

If it's beginning to be a trend/pattern, is there anything that can be done to reverse it? Would politely complaining to management do anything? Or is it going to turn into a matter that "If you don't like it, take your money elsewhere"?

I doubt there really is a way to change it on a standard club. What we may start seeing more of is that those who seriously want to swing start avoiding open swinger clubs and stick to private parties (where those who are invited are all "known" entities). What would then happen is that eventually there would be no one playing at swinger clubs and the voyeurs would get bored and the clubs would go out of business, as no one would be attending.

I think it would help a lot of clubs stuck to the rule of you must be naked (or at most in a towel) in the play area. That would definately discourage some of those people like those that have been mentioned from entering.

Originally Posted by rpu3

they reply was if they chose to perform in the public area they "want" to be watched. So I didn't feel so bad about watching.

I would agree with that if the club has private and public play areas, unfortunately many don't have separate areas like that... and some like the one Spoo visited have private areas that too easily become public.



and Welcome back NorthIndyCpl!

[tribbles]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

No - they don't...

But that doesn't mean they don't show up. Yes - we were pissed - but honestly once we chased them out, I was more interested in getting my traction back.

Spoomonkey

While it wrecks the action at that moment to report them, we have come to the conclusion it will be the only way to keep the club the way we like it. As members it is our responsiblity to report others breaking big rules or the club will go sour.

The Hosts can't be everywhere and see everything.

We DO wish everyone just paid attention to the Rules.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

How do you feel about being watched at a club? Do you enjoy it? Does it annoy you?

We really enjoy it. In the on-premise club we've attended, there are many different areas. The upstairs (sex) area has wide-open areas, semi-private areas, and rooms with doors closed. You can get on a list and reserve a private room time, if you like. When we've had sex in the wide-open area, it was a huge turn-on to us to be watched. But, nobody was hollering, making rude comments, telling us to change positions, etc. Just watching quietly and what felt to us, respectfully.

Camera phones: Egads!!! We wouldn't go in a club where they were allowed in. The on-premise club we've attended checks everybody at the door. Phones (any phone) and any other digital items can be securely checked, and are not allowed inside the club. If you're bringing in a purse or a bag for changing clothes, it is searched before you get past the first room. The rules there are very clear. Privacy is a big priority. We loved that, and wouldn't want it any other way.

I think that almost any newbie couple are going to be "watchers" for awhile, and I understand that. If people are friendly and understanding toward them, they'll probably blossom and eventually start to play, maybe sooner than later. I would hope that the newbies don't get the vibe from anti-voyeur folks that they're not welcomed there, or feel like they'd better hurry up and "put out" before they're ready so they're not shunned.

[Chicup]

A couple of years ago I remember a post by Vegas Lee where he was complaining that no one wants to just fuck anymore.

At the time I was on the other side of the fence, we are in the first wave of the 'internet swingers' and we enjoy being friends with the couples we play with, maybe not playing right away, that sort of thing.

Well as we are all seeing the trend has come to bite us all in the ass anyways. We have been running into more and more of this. You find more and more looky-loo's who don't really want to play. We might want to be friends and go to family BBQ's if we really like each other, but we want to have sex, not have others watch us have sex.

Despite being in a major metropolitan area, while the number of profiles on the add sites has increased since we started, the number of people who want to play seems to be about constant. We see lots of new couples who want us to somehow romance them into swinging, we see couples with rules a mile long who will never swing, and we see couples who are just down right odd in what they seem to be looking for. Its gotten so bad we took down our add on sls rather then deal with it.

It would be one thing if it were just the add sites, but the clubs are no better. One of those old swinger owned couples club in our area was recently bought by a swinger couple who is more interested in the club as an investment than anything else. I'm not sure where they are advertising, but the couples in the club are, well, not desirable and I'll leave it at that. Another old and major club in the area is still ok but every time we have gone we have run into the types who want to watch and not play (I bitched about it in a thread in the past) and I saw them letting in young 20 something couples after 12 (which is against the rules) who you can tell came from a vanilla club and just wanted to watch the freaks. Since it was the owner letting them in, I didn't bother bringing it to the owners attention :rollseyes

Honestly its all been a major turn off lately. Trying to sift through these couples to find the swingers has become too much of a chore for us. Being we are looking for 30 something couples for the most part, and it seems most of these 'poser' couples are in the 20-30 ranges we have given up actively looking for a while and are only meeting with long time friends.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

I think that almost any newbie couple are going to be "watchers" for awhile, and I understand that. If people are friendly and understanding toward them, they'll probably blossom and eventually start to play, maybe sooner than later. I would hope that the newbies don't get the vibe from anti-voyeur folks that they're not welcomed there, or feel like they'd better hurry up and "put out" before they're ready so they're not shunned.

I don't think this is always the case. No swingers we know started as voyeurs who just wanted to go watch people have sex. They might not have played the first times they went to the clubs, but they wanted to get a feel for the people and atmosphere first, they didn't go for live porn. If anything I think the voyeurs would be a MAJOR turn off for most new would be swingers. Here you are, doing something you have never done before, hell perhaps no one but your husband/spouse has seen you naked as an adult, and you are expected to have sex with a stranger couple while others watch you from the shadows? That might be a turn on for some, but not for most we have met.

On the other hand when we have run into the voyeur couples they have been doing it for a long time and have NO intention of swinging. At one club its wasted our last two visits from a swinging perspective. Mind you they don't just say they are there to watch, they say they are swingers, but then they don't play (ever, talked to a few couples) and when the one guy wanted to go 'check out the rooms' to watch, it sort of creeped us out tbh.

[warkman]

Originally Posted by Chicup

If anything I think the voyeurs would be a MAJOR turn off for most new would be swingers. Here you are, doing something you have never done before, hell perhaps no one but your husband/spouse has seen you naked as an adult, and you are expected to have sex with a stranger couple while others watch you from the shadows? That might be a turn on for some, but not for most we have met.

Absolutely!! Bravo Chicup. That comment resonates greatly with me. Being watched by non participants would be something we would have to (if ever) grow into. Now, it would make us want to run away. Heck, we feel that even if we found a couple to play with, that closed private rooms for each pair (even given the possible problems that could arise) would suit our comfort level best to start. My wife can only envision being with a playmate in a closed room situation. It's too distracting otherwise in our fantasy of how it would all play out (at this point anyway.) This scenario makes me a bit nervous, but I understand. I feel similarly. Though I would want to be near if something weren't going right for her.

[BiloxiCouple]

Maybe the clubs need to make the play area a completely naked area, if that is possible. Have a social and dance area where it is clothing optional. But you want to go to the play area, everyone gets naked. Maybe that will limit the lookey-loos? Or get them to playing?

Any club operators listening? Comments?

[jandg]

Originally Posted by BiloxiCouple

Maybe the clubs need to make the play area a completely naked area, if that is possible. Have a social and dance area where it is clothing optional. But you want to go to the play area, everyone gets naked. Maybe that will limit the lookey-loos? Or get them to playing?

Any club operators listening? Comments?

The Red Rooster has a couples-only area that's open on Fridays and Saturdays. Only those that come to the club as couples are allowed into the area. There's a large play room in the couples-only area that's set off by a hallway and a chain across the entrance to the hallway. In order to go into that area the couples must be naked, and ready to play. Lookie-Lou's are not allowed.

Sundays are pool party day. By 8pm everyone must be wearing a swimsuit or less (naked is prefered and encouraged).

Any Sunday preceeding a holiday Monday is Naked and Naughty Night. Dress code is women must wear lingerie or less, and men must be completely naked. The dress (undress ) code is strictly enforced. Keeps the looker to a minimum.

[SueRic]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Camera phones: Egads!!! We wouldn't go in a club where they were allowed in. The on-premise club we've attended checks everybody at the door.

This is one of the reasons Ric and I were turned off by the Power Exchange L3. We were there to check things out--and yeah, we pretty much just watched--and there was this oily guy walking around with a cell phone at his ear. At the time we thought he just a goof but then it occured to us that he must have had one of the first picture phones because he kept playing with it.

S

[Chicup]

The problem is that often its couples who are just doing the viewing, in fact all of our issues with this have been couples as the clubs are copules only.

The nude thing isn't a horrible idea though there are people I dont' want to see nude and times when I'd like to keep my pants on leaving/comming from the play area.

I

[good times]

I have to say that the nude thing would probably turn us off to a club, as we are not nudists, and like Chiccup said their are people I would just as soon not see naked. In fact, thats probably why the nudist thing just doesn't appeal to us. If it is just nude in certain areas, like the play room or the hot tub we wouldn't have a problem with it, but we have passed on party invites when we found out we would have had to check our clothes at the door.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by BiloxiCouple

Maybe the clubs need to make the play area a completely naked area, if that is possible.

It's not only possible, but one of the best clubs we ever attended did precisely that...had an area where street clothes were not permitted. Lingerie for the women and nudity (or a hand carried towel) for the men was the house rule. We thought it was great, AND, we weren't worried that anybody was hiding a video camera in their lapel.

Have a social and dance area where it is clothing optional. But you want to go to the play area, everyone gets naked. Maybe that will limit the lookey-loos?

In theory that works OK. By midnight, almost everybody is in the nude area anyway, and only come back to the social area to get a drink or a snack. The problem is that new couples who may not be ready to undress in front of a couple-dozen or more strangers won't go back there. The best solution I've seen is to make that area "nude only" or "no street clothes" after a certain time...11 or 12 O'clock seems to work well. That way, newbies get to check it out at their leisure, while not being a distraction later on when the hard-core couples get to crankin'.

Another problem is that most clubs have either become dependent on the income that single males bring in, or cannot bring themselves to operate without it. Virtually every club in our area is hanging on by a thread, financially. There have been several closings and changes of ownership in the last year. I think if you were to restrict single males to the "social" areas (which of course would be empty after midnight) they would soon stop paying the 50-60 dollar door charges for the "privilige" of playing pool with a bunch of other lonely, single guys in those areas. If you let them in, the couples don't come back.

The current situation is one that the clubs brought upon themselves. Single guys, and apparently to a lesser-but-growing extent, young, "lookie-loo couples," have become to most clubs what dope is to an addict...a necessary evil.

[dl1000]

Being new-ish to the lifestyle we're fortunate that out first experiences have been at private parties in the UK and a great club in The Netherlands. Nearly no lookie-loo's on the private parties, because everyone is well screened beforehand, and at the club "dress-time" is between 10 and 11, at the end of which everyone will be either in lingerie, or naked... Works great, and there are private areas and more open play areas, as well as a pool and sauna. The social area (dancing/drinking/eating) remains lingerie/naked after 11, so you can't hide there...