Responsibilities to your playmates' relationship?

[wlhotwife]

OK, my gut tells me I already know the answer to this, but I'm not sure I'm looking at it from the proper perspective.
Mr. WL and I are new to the lifestyle, having played with only one other (also married) couple. We met another couple a few months ago, and really hit it off on the first meet. They are also new to the lifestyle, and were interested in soft swap only to start. They are not married and mostly live apart. She is a bit reluctant to play, but he is very interested in everything including full swap. We are content to go as slow as she desires, being new to this ourselves.
The other man and I have a very strong attraction to each other, and Mr. WL is very comfortable with him, as well as being attracted to the other lady. The other man has made several suggestions of a MFM, which appeals to me alot, as long as she is OK with it. Of course, Mr. WL would prefer her to be involved, but he knows how attracted I am to the other guy, and would certainly participate if everybody is fine with it.
At first, she said she was fine with it, then said she would prefer he not play alone, now says she just doesn't want to know about it. I haven't had the chance to ask her directly, but she does know that I've developed a relationship with him, and claims she is fine with that. (We chat online, and over the phone, sometimes it gets pretty heated)
Mr. WL and I have gone round and round with this, wondering what our duty is to our playmates' relationships. We try to be as transparent as possible when dealing with the relationships that we are developing, and are not really sure how to proceed. We want to avoid drama, but we also don't want to pass up the opportunity to play with someone who we are really attracted to.
So my gut says this is a potential drama bomb, and we should walk away, and I wouldn't hesitate to do that if this couple were married, but does the fact that they aren't married change things?
Your sage advice is welcome.

[slevin]

Whether they are married or not doesn't really change my opinion of what to do in this instance. From my perspective they are in a committed relationship and that is how I treat them.

If she was ok with him joining my wife and I then I would go for it no problem, but we'd likely only go for it if we were willing for me to join them without Katrina, or they knew we weren't ok with my joining them and were still ok with him seeing us on his own. That is all about being up front, ensuring there are no misunderstood expectations and making sure that we're all comfortable with the situation. Given the fact that she has changed her mind about this twice already is more than enough for me to take a step back and say that I would not meet him without her at all. I'd also be strongly considering not meeting them for sex at all, even if she is there and involved. Her reluctance that you mention, then her multiple changes of mind about him playing alone rings my drama-potential-meter extremely loud and I flat out don't want to be involved in that at all.

Having had a girl who was less enthusiastic about swinging end up in tears running out of the bedroom...I'll run from anything even remotely looking like it has drama potential even if that means I might miss out on some great people. There are always other couples/singles that we click with and are attracted to that don't have drama.

[BiloxiCouple]

You already know the answer.

[SecretAsianMan]

Yeah - it sounds like she's unsure and isn't ready for to take that step (or to be with her husband while he takes that step) ahead into the lifestyle.

I say, back off... give them their space. Maintain your friendship - since I assume y'all are friends first and potential sex-partners as a secondary (bonus) feature to your relationship with them. Let the husband know that you sense there's a lot of reluctance on his wife's part and you don't want to get caught in the middle of any drama which may result if he moves ahead without her being 100% okay with it.

Spend some time apart if you need to. Deep Breath. And proceed with other avenues with other folk.

[mervsmom97]

I'd go with your gut on this one, there are lots of playmates in the sea

[jjtrindc]

Definitely attempt to develop more of a relationship with the other woman. For us, we both want to have some sort of connection with both people. Sometimes one of us may have more of a "relationship" with one or the other in terms of chats, phone calls, etc...but ultimately either of could be having the same conversation. We also keep each other informed of the chats if more than just "how was your day." The point being that if you develop a relationship with both, then you'll have a true sense about how they both feel about different situations and whether some activity may lead to drama. Also, if you have a good relationship it will be easier to try new things. Given that you are both so new, probably worth taking a pass at the sexual opportunity but keep up the general friendship.

[realcplub2]

I concur, You already know the answer, as difficult as it can be.

The best thing to do is to simply tell them both at the same time, We are getting a weird vibe, and think it might be time to give you both some time and space.. leave off to work thru any issues, I am sure seconds after its said, the issues will be on the table for them both.

The other reason to step away is simply this.. While its fine to have some level of attraction, the way you describe your feelings for the other guy, just doesnt sound too good. He is a potential playmate, not a potential replacement, for your current full time playmate. Maybe things were moving too fast, I dunno.. only you can answer it, but again, something about what you have written about your feelings for this guy, would make me worry if was my Mrs.

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by wlhotwife

OK, my gut tells me I already know the answer to this, but I'm not sure I'm looking at it from the proper perspective.
Mr. WL and I are new to the lifestyle, having played with only one other (also married) couple. We met another couple a few months ago, and really hit it off on the first meet. They are also new to the lifestyle, and were interested in soft swap only to start. They are not married and mostly live apart. She is a bit reluctant to play, but he is very interested in everything including full swap. We are content to go as slow as she desires, being new to this ourselves.
The other man and I have a very strong attraction to each other, and Mr. WL is very comfortable with him, as well as being attracted to the other lady. The other man has made several suggestions of a MFM, which appeals to me alot, as long as she is OK with it. Of course, Mr. WL would prefer her to be involved, but he knows how attracted I am to the other guy, and would certainly participate if everybody is fine with it.
At first, she said she was fine with it, then said she would prefer he not play alone, now says she just doesn't want to know about it. I haven't had the chance to ask her directly, but she does know that I've developed a relationship with him, and claims she is fine with that. (We chat online, and over the phone, sometimes it gets pretty heated)
Mr. WL and I have gone round and round with this, wondering what our duty is to our playmates' relationships. We try to be as transparent as possible when dealing with the relationships that we are developing, and are not really sure how to proceed. We want to avoid drama, but we also don't want to pass up the opportunity to play with someone who we are really attracted to.
So my gut says this is a potential drama bomb, and we should walk away, and I wouldn't hesitate to do that if this couple were married, but does the fact that they aren't married change things?
Your sage advice is welcome.

I say go with your gut, though I'd hope your gut would tell you the same thing even if they were married. A marriage certificate doesn't make a couple any less drama prone that those without.

The issue here is that the wife is obviously not comfortable with the situation here--be it your budding relationship with her husband, or the idea of swinging altogether.

So take a pass on playtime for now. If you and the other Mr. have developed a friendship, he should understand your hesitation (though his first loyalty should b to his wife) and remain a friend. And maybe someday the wife will be ready to take those next steps.

Best of luck to ya'll,

=)

[wlhotwife]

OK, one thing I want to make clear...The other couple is NOT married, and live quite independent lives. I'm not sure how committed their relationship is with each other.
If they were married, this would be a no brainer for us, and we would walk away.
Also, I am very careful to involve and inform my husband of any contact with the other man, (or any potential playmates, for that matter). I haven't developed any strong feelings of attachment, beyond general friendship and physical attraction. Mr. WL is very comfortable with me interacting with other men, and we have rules that we both support, including no seperate play.
I agree that the fact that she has changed her mind a couple of times is indicative of potential drama, but how can I even approach her to discuss this, if she "doesn't want to know about it"?

[rpu3]

I agree that the fact that she has changed her mind a couple of times is indicative of potential drama, but how can I even approach her to discuss this, if she "doesn't want to know about it"?

You can't, which is why your gut has been telling you all along to move along and don't mess with them. I believe if you override your gut feeling on this one, you are going to regret it. They need to figure out their own stuff before getting it on with you, together or separate.

Married or not isn't the issue; the issue is that it's more than apparent that something is wrong in this dynamic. At the very least, she's not ready. And "don't ask, don't tell" just isn't going to work for any of you. Given how often this Board goes on about honest communication, your friend's strategy just doesn't fit in here.

Given how many men you could find for an MFM, and the odds are decent you could meet another couple, why not just stick with your gut with this?

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by wlhotwife

I agree that the fact that she has changed her mind a couple of times is indicative of potential drama, but how can I even approach her to discuss this, if she "doesn't want to know about it"?

Well, I don't need to add to everyone else saying "go with your gut". They're right

How do you approach? I won't say it's impossible. It might be hard though. I would never engage in conversation with potential playmates or their significant others in any way that could be construed as trying to convince them to do something they're not ready to do. Something I have done is raise topics for consideration.

For example, I was with the wife of another couple who soft swap. The husband is very ready for full swap, but hasn't given any pressure to her (by her own admission). She's not ready for full swap. She's never had another man besides her husband (and vice versa). I mentioned to her, "Having never been with another man, you probably feel like having another man would break something sacrosanct; and there's no going back. Once done, it's done" She readily agreed this is a concern of hers. I didn't offer any mental solutions for that. Mainly, I was curious if that was in her mindset.

If you have a dinner with this other couple, you might try raising topics in this manner. If it feels like you are saying something that could be construed as pressuring, or you feel like you are, back off. That's not the point. Discuss. That's all.

Another aspect to this; the guy in the other couple turns you into a puddle. Wonderful But, it's not going to be wonderful if you're having sex with him and his partner is not happy and energized about the scene. It will be a less positive experience for both of you, and a rotten one for the woman in the other couple. You can make it the best by waiting until she's ready. If she's never ready, she's never ready. C'est la vie. For some couples, it can take years before they are ready.

[two42lovers]

A lot of the responders are quick to suggest you cut them off - maybe a good idea, maybe not. It's ironic to hear people refer to them as married - or that it doesn't matter and you should treat them as if they are committed - when you were very clear they are not married, not committed, and are not living together.

Our advice is to be completely above board about everything. You don't have to give her the play by play, but let her know you are playing, and let her know she is invited when she feels it.

[slevin]

Originally Posted by two42lovers

A lot of the responders are quick to suggest you cut them off - maybe a good idea, maybe not. It's ironic to hear people refer to them as married - or that it doesn't matter and you should treat them as if they are committed - when you were very clear they are not married, not committed, and are not living together.

She said that they weren't married and live apart, but also said (in a later reply) that she wasn't sure how committed they were. My take on a couple is that unless they are clear that they're two singles who swing together then I treat them as a committed couple whether they are married or not. Just because they don't live together doesn't mean they aren't committed. If they truly were single or totally independent then she wouldn't have any misgivings about him playing alone.

[amid]

Originally Posted by realcplub2

The other reason to step away is simply this.. While its fine to have some level of attraction, the way you describe your feelings for the other guy, just doesnt sound too good. He is a potential playmate, not a potential replacement, for your current full time playmate. Maybe things were moving too fast, I dunno.. only you can answer it, but again, something about what you have written about your feelings for this guy, would make me worry if was my Mrs.

As soon as I read through your post the first time my radar went off to this too. Being new perhaps you haven't had the time to learn how to seperate and sort through your own feelings. Playmates are just that.. for play. We think it is fine to be attracted to a playmate, you should be. But no more than you would say.. wow look at that new vibrator honey, I'd love to try that (sorry if that sounds cold but this is by right of example). Of course we know in the real world people have personalities and feelings that we become entangled with.. but you have to maintain seperation. When a playmate or a potential playmate takes up too much of your thoughts/fantasies we think it's time to back down. There was one couple we hit it off really well with, but the male half seemed to be taking it too far/too personal with the Mrs., she and I talked about it and decided that WE would not play with them anylonger since he seemed to be too attracted. Follow your gut.. follow some of the good advice here on the forum.. back off for now.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by wlhotwife

So my gut says this is a potential drama bomb, and we should walk away, and I wouldn't hesitate to do that if this couple were married, but does the fact that they aren't married change things?

Regardless of the details, whenever your gut tells you this...LISTEN!! When drama bombs (my new pet term) gets activated it is very hard to defuse. Married, single blah blah blah - it doesn't matter. Drama is drama.

The more disharmony that is taking place with either the other couple or within your own relationship at the time the drama bomb goes off the more destruction and fallout there is. There are millions of men that will availe themselves for an MFM if that is all this is going to be, let this one go.