The Whole Event Crashed and Burned...

[Ave Satanas]

So I guess I'll start this off with a little background information: I go by the name Ave Satanas, and I've been a semi-active member of the swingers board since April of last year. At the time that I joined, I was only curious about the lifestyle, but I soon realized that it was perfect for my SO and me. Things were tricky for us, since both of us are under 21, which meant no clubbing, and we were reluctant to engage in any activity with anyone we didn't know. More problems plagued us, but we made the effort and think we've done pretty well considering we both live with our parents and it's still under wraps (hey man, it's tough being a college student!).

Now if you haven't read any of the threads I posted, let me give a quick update: we had engaged in our first group sex activity, a MMF threesome, with a friend of ours. It went fairly well, but since then we have come to the conclusion that the particular friend involved, while a great guy, isn't particularly well suited to swinging. We went on the hunt for a female, since that's what my lady was interested in. In my last post, which was quite a while ago, we were preparing for a threesome with her.

Long story short: the whole event crashed and burned. Drama ensued. Thankfully it's over, and I've learned a lot.

So now we get to the meat of this blog... A coworker of my girlfriend had piqued our curiosity, and we were considering throwing out the idea of playing with her. Not a minute after we resolved to, the girl's previously unknown boyfriend comes into town for winter break from his school in Alaska. We were pretty disappointed, but my girlfriend met him and said that I would like the guy anyway. She said she had even made a joke about the four of us having an orgy, which he half-jokingly agreed to. So I sent the guy a text message, and we agreed to meet up. (I should probably mention that my girlfriend works at an arena for our cities hockey team with this girl, and since I'm a rabid hockey fan, I attend every game). After the game was over, we met them outside.

Sure enough, me and this guy hit it off. Really, REALLY well. It was like he was me in a different skin. Being so immediately comfortable, I figured 'what the hell' and said "So, foursome?".

To which he responded, deadly serious "Well, what are you two doing tomorrow?"

So we agreed to hang out the next night. We were unsure if the two were serious or not, but we prepared for a good time regardless. The next day, we met them and we all enjoyed a nice dinner. We went back to the guy's house and proceeded to go out to the hot tub. Well, it wasn't long before the two of us guys were able to convince the ladies to undress and get some kissing action going.

And right then, we hear his family pull into the driveway. We were all pretty disappointed, and exited the spa. We decided to go grab a coffee, and near the coffee place, we see a cheap hotel. He jokingly says that we could get a hotel room, and so my lady and I take a gamble and say "well, we'll pay if you're interested".

Next thing you know, we're in a hotel room, calling our parents to say we're staying with friends. We push the two beds together, and start having fun.

First predicament: in all my plans, I had never thought that I would be NERVOUS. Thankfully, he was two, and it became the running gag of the night between the two of us. Eventually he's having sex with his girl and we're doing the same.

However, we had yet to swap, and my girlfriend and I were pretty anxious too. So to give the whole situation a kick-start, i suggested that she go over and try getting a little intimate with the guy while he was giving his girlfriend some oral action.

Things were looking good, and at some point or another his girl ended up over with me. We got pretty occupied, and soon enough she's on top and we're having fun. That is, until we look over and notice that his nervous problem has come back.

Now, I don't have to recount the ENTIRE story, but in the end, my lady never actually had sex with him. Not that he didn't give her any attention, and there were no hard feelings in the end.

So the next weekend, I ended up house-sitting for some people I know and ask this guy if he and his girl want to hang out. We don't mention a foursome specifically because we didn't want to make him feel as though that's all we want. But thankfully, he and his girl suggest it again and we end up at this house.

Now, a little more background: This is basically the last night we have a shot with the two of them for a while because the next day he's due to go back to Alaska for school. So we've got big plans for the night.

Things start off similar to the last time, and we all end up in the same bed (we started out in separate rooms to quell the usual nerves). However, he and his lady seem pretty busy and we're reluctant to ask him. However, we're not really having too much fun because we're growing more and more disappointed by the second. His girlfriend seems to get the idea, but him... not so much.

So his girlfriend decides that she needs to leave the room for a little while and heads out, and I suggest to my girlfriend that she attempt to get some action going while I leave the room.

Now, before I continue, some more background: his girlfriend is incredibly sexy. Gorgeous. Now obviously I don't think she holds a candle to my girlfriend, but my lady doesn't share my opinion.

So me and his girl start getting something going, and we decide to go to a different room while my lady seduces the other guy. We sneak a peek in their room before we go into ours however, and are greeted with a disappointing site: he's laying there, facing away from my dejected looking girlfriend. His girl goes to talk to him, while my girlfriend comes with me to another room.

In the other room, she informs me that when she attempted to try getting him to do anything with her, he casually mentioned that he was just waiting for his girlfriend to come back so that the two of them could cuddle.

Basically, he very politely told my girlfriend that he didn't want to do anything with her. Now, cuddling wouldn't be such a problem, except that a moment later, we hear the sound of the other two going at it again. Right around then, my girl starts to tear up. She doesn't take any sort of rejection well, and I don't take to seeing her cry well.

I hold her for a minute, my blood boiling.

In retrospect, it WAS his last night with his girlfriend. But he HAD been the one to suggest a foursome, and it seemed like that plan was out completely. I was starting to feel like I was just there to give them a place to fuck, and on top of that my girlfriend had tears streaming down her face. So I did what I figured any good boyfriend would do in my situation, regardless of how much they liked the other dude.

I pulled on my jeans, left the room ("oh, I've just gotta pee, babe. I'll be right back."), marched into the other room, step right up onto the bed, pull the blanket back, and punched him in the head. Hard. Full-on. In the face.

He gave the expected "what the fuck", to which I responded "that's for making my girlfriend cry, you fucking dick." I pulled back for another blow and he says "wait, she's crying?"

"well of course she's crying, you stupid idiot, she feels like you rejected her. You just shot her down"

Now, I know i had just punched this guy, and I know that it wasn't as honorable as I would have liked it, but if you ask either one of us now, we'd tell you that even at that moment, even RIGHT AFTER I hit him, we were still friends, and good friends at that.

So, in lieu of hitting him again, I let him and his lady rush into the other room to console my girlfriend. He apologized profusely, saying that he didn't mean to hurt my girl's feelings, he just was caught up in the moment with his girl.

I thought things were getting better, but as we all lay in that bed, he starts talking. Normally not a problem, except basically everything coming out of his mouth was "isn't my girlfriend so pretty, I love her more than anything, she's everything to me", etc.

My thoughts: 'hey, if I wanted to hear this, I'd have rented a Hugh Grant movie. I signed up for a foursome, goddammit'

But, against my better judgment, I put up with it. For a good hour and a half. To that point that when he left the room for a minute, even his girlfriend remarked at how sickeningly sweet.

Now, and I'm quoting this from a friend, I'm cool with love. But not this chick-flick-gay-love.

In the end, my lady and I went to our room while they went to theirs. So far, still no foursome. We're kind of pissed still, and my girlfriend says "well, he said he didn't mean for me to feel rejected... but I mean, nonetheless, I was". And we just start complaining to one another about how disappointing our night has become.

So she goes into the other room, where they've started back up again. And she asks flat out if the foursome is going to happen or not. They dance around the question for a good five minutes, going on tangents and talking about just being 'so caught up in the moment' etc. My girlfriend tells them after all this that they've yet to answer, and he finally says "so you're asking if we're going to swap partners tonight?"

I'll give you a moment to let it sink in.

We nod, and he answers "tonight, honestly, probably not"

So we go to bed, fuming angry. A few minutes later, they come in, and proceed with basically the same thing they did with my SO the first time. Sure, the apologies are nice, but in the end, things are the same: nothing has happened and he's still in gay-love.

After they leave, my girl and I at least had a little fun with each other before going to sleep. The next morning the other two come wake us up super early, because I've got to take him to the airport.

No problem, I had agreed to that. I even sat through the half-hour long, chick-flick-style goodbye between he and his girl.

Mind you, I'm feeling a little better now that I've had some sleep. I'm less angry at him, and having talked to him a little, I'm convinced that a foursome is still possible the next time he's in town. So he leaves, and there are absolutely no hard feelings.

His girl, my girl, and I head back to the house. We grab some breakfast, and all decide to lay down for a nap. Yes, all of us in the same bed.

Hey now, we're all fully-clothed the entire time. Don't give me that look.

In conclusion, here's what I'm thinking:

1) A foursome isn't out. The two of them were just really trying to enjoy their last night together for a while.

2) He's a good guy, it's just situations like this made me dislike him some. But in the end, he's still a great friend of mine.

3) His girlfriend, having been much more open to swapping that night than he was, is still awesome. In all honestly, my lady and I both harbor the fantasy that one day she'll leave him and come be our live-in girlfriend. She's a great girl, and we'd do a lot for her. Of course, we've known her longer, so...

We have cut them out, but we're keeping an eye out for new playmates. I've written this whole lengthy, terribly unstructured blog to basically see what my friends here on swingers board think of the situation. So: comments, advice, feedback, flames, anything?

Thanks for reading this far, if you have. I appreciate any feedback.

-Ave Satanas

P.S. This started out as a blog but became too long, so I apologize if it reads weirdly due to that.

[fun4Ds]

and

[LFM2]

My question for you is what made you think of trying to make swingers out of friends? That is one of the biggest no-no's in swinging. At least it is in our swingers handbook.

Secondly, we avoid drama like the plague. You're asking for more drama, my friend, if you're wanting to try another foursome with this couple.

If you're serious about this lifestyle -- get used to the rejection. You can't go around punching everyone that rejects your girlfriend. IMO, your post screams of immaturity on your part (punching someone is never in good taste).

[lovelygirl2]

Please please please if you put up a profile anywhere use this same screenname so we know who to avoid!

In my two years in the lifestyle, I have experienced a few times where the male half had anxiety or performance issues. It's not uncommon and it's not a big deal. You can't take it personally. And to make a big deal about it is not nice and certainly not a good way to treat "friends".

And god forbid I'm ever in a situation where some guy decides to punch my husband in the head while we are in the middle of a good time simply because his gf decided my husband was rejecting her. I can guarantee that that would not end well.

While I agree with the poster who said that trying again with this couple is drama, I also think that the OP is pretty high up on the drama scale as well. I can't understand why someone would take an issue in a play session so personally.

My take on the situation is that while you are angry at their seeming selfishness, you and your gf have displayed quite a bit of selfishness and immaturity. I think you need to do a good bit of introspection on this one.

[VegasLee]

I guess you stepped over reading the part that No means NO and no one has to do anything with you, or your girlfriend that they don't want to do.

We have a rule at our club that people have to be 25 to come to it. You are the reason why we do this. "You stepped up and punched him in the head." Real mature guy. What did that prove besides that your a fool? Mark up another perfect example whey we won't be changing that age rule any time soon.

Now you want her to leave him and come be your play toy. Something else that no one in this Lifestyle wants to hear. You need to spend more time reading the forums and less time trying to destroy relationships and most of all you need to grow up.

[avid]

Well, I can clearly see where you guys made a few mistakes, but I think those are going to be pointed out by the other members of the board. I think it's important not to get too self-righteous about thinking that us "experienced" swingers would do it so much better than you. I've certainly met couples who've easily done things just as silly - and they definitely should have known better!

I think you've been brutally honest in your retelling of the story, and that's where I wanted to comment. You're a great writer, and in truth, you cracked me up with your story.

What you need to always keep in mind is that every ingredient in the recipe for a foursome is a human being. They have their own objectives, their own fears. Something to remember: It's not about you. Nor is it about your girlfriend.

Why don't you just keep looking for someone else to get your swapping jollies? I suggest finding someone you don't need to have a friendship with. That way, if things go south, you don't have to have all the drama, you just move on.

Good luck.

[JustAskJulie]

My first thought after reading this is that you are way too immature to be swinging. What happened here had nothing to do with the other guy or couple but with your own immaturity. When it comes to swinging there is no such thing as a sure thing. It doesn't matter who brings it up, if someone says no, it means no (kinda like dating).

If your gf felt rejected and you got upset because you saw her crying that is NO REASON to punch a guy (in the head or otherwise). If anything you could knock on the door and say "hey my gf is feeling rejected because we were really hoping to have a foursome and now she's crying, do you think you could help me out?". As for the guy going on and on about how great his girl is, I'd hope he would, I wouldn't want to swing with a couple where they didn't really appreciate each other.

[sweet_tna]

First off, hitting the other guy was way out of line. You said yourself that it was his and his girl's last night together. It's perfectly understandable he'd want to be with her. They may have thought the foursome was an exciting idea, but weren't ready for the reality. Or he could simply not have been into your girlfriend. The reason is irrelevant. The tears are irrelevant. If you really want to swing, you have to accept that it won't always go the way you're hoping for. To find four people who are all attracted to each other isn't easy. Add the reality of having sex together with each other's SO is even tougher.

And no offense, but you really don't sound like you're quite ready to be swinging. Not just because you hit the guy, but because of your approach. NO means NO. Period. Even if it's someone else's suggestion to play, the moment any person says no it's over. Yes, rejection smarts. And your girlfriend getting so upset about it shows she's not really ready either.

Everyone makes mistakes, and as long as you take it on the chin and learn from them, there's hope. Best of luck to ya'll.

=)

[LikeMinds321]

It felt like I was reading a screenplay, and a very well-written one. Punching the guy out is like something from a movie afterall, funny in the theatre, but not at all funny in real life.

I glanced over some of your previous posts, they're all long - although good reads - and you've described yourself as jealous, overly protective and have a problem with anger. I'd say you have the three main ingredients for a loser swinger.

Swinging isn't going to work for you if you can't overcome these personality obstacles. Maybe it's your youth, let's hope so, but if you hold on to these same traits as you grow older you're unlikely to run into guys who'll take a couple punches to the noggin' as nicely as the "chic-flick-gay-love" guy did. You don't know how damn lucky you were in that situation.

I don't think you've read enough on the Board about the rules of swinging. You don't have the basics understood.

You're 21, or there abouts, and you probably don't want to hear me say "wait until you grow up" and then give swinging a try again (maybe in 5 years), but that's all I can suggest.

Ave, you need to grow up and mature - learn a lot more about swinging - if you ever hope to handle the complexity of swinging.

LM

Edit: Since I love creative writing, I think if ever you decide to become a screenwriter this story would be great to include in a movie. I think Hugh Grant would be perfect for the guy you punched out, Brad Pitt could play you, and your girlfriend I picture as Mira Sorvino...all in their younger years, of course. I don't have a pick for Hugh's girlfriend, but she would be a brunette.

[socolais]

I remember you. You write very well and generally sound very mature for your age. You knowingly selected a path less traveled and discovered for yourself WHY it's less traveled. Take some time and really think about what happened and perhaps why it happened like that. It sounds like everyone contributed somewhat equally to the drama (and your role is especially noteworthy). Think about how the outcome could have been different if you had been in control of your emotions and behaved differently. You're not easily deterred from your objective, so I think there's a high probability you'll give it another try. With the lessons both of you can learn from this encounter, you MAY enjoy success in the future (or you MAY crash and burn, again).

My guess, based on this chapter is that neither of you are really ready for this kind of activity - and that's quite OK. Keep it as a fun fantasy until you're both ready for the next level. Explore some alternatives that are less likely to invoke unpleasant emotions (not only for yourselves, but for the others too).

[cubnamy1995]

Punching a guy is not a bad thing so long as it is done for sport, and not out of anger. I'm in a club that deals with that, but I'm not supposed to talk about it...It's their first rule.

Seriously, there is no possible way my wife or I could have had the maturity in our early twenties to swing. I am not surprised it turned out like it did. There is a reason why most of the swingers you encounter are in their 30s +. They have worked past their own personal drama. You should do the same before you mess with anybody else.

[Miss_Piggy]

I can certainly see that mistakes were made on all sides. However, I don't see you as a lost cause for swinging. In fact, Kermit and I started out here at a very young age. (I think I was 21 and he was 22 or 23.) It's possible that we could have ended up in some messes in the first couple of years. I think we were just lucky with our first couple. They were older than us by about 10 years and they really had themselves figured out. They showed showed us an excellent model of how we should go about this. You do seem to be communicating well. The next step will be to keep your reactions to the unpredictable behaviours of others in check. As has been mentioned, others are fully within their rights to reject you for whatever reason. There is no reason to automatically assume that the rejection is your fault. You just have to pull up your confidence and roll with it.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Miss_Piggy

I can certainly see that mistakes were made on all sides. However, I don't see you as a lost cause for swinging. In fact, Kermit and I started out here at a very young age. (I think I was 21 and he was 22 or 23.) It's possible that we could have ended up in some messes in the first couple of years. I think we were just lucky with our first couple. They were older than us by about 10 years and they really had themselves figured out. They showed showed us an excellent model of how we should go about this. You do seem to be communicating well. The next step will be to keep your reactions to the unpredictable behaviours of others in check. As has been mentioned, others are fully within their rights to reject you for whatever reason. There is no reason to automatically assume that the rejection is your fault. You just have to pull up your confidence and roll with it.

I don't think age is an issue here so much as maturity. I also started out very young (21 maybe).

[redeye69]

brilliantly written

[Ave Satanas]

So I had expected to be told that I shouldn't have hit the guy, that it was bad behavior, immature, etc. I agree there were better paths I could have taken. But at the time, there was no straight 'no' that MEANT 'no', only a shrug off after being put under the assumption that a foursome is exactly what we were there for. And like I mentioned, on my end things were heading that way.

I suppose deep down I knew that this guy and I were (and still are!) good enough friends that the hit wouldn't be a huge problem. I suppose that might be because we're younger and will hit one another half the time just for the hell of it. And anyone who knows hockey guys knows that fighting isn't a HUGE thing for us. In the end, the guy later offered to take another hit, saying he himself felt like he had it coming. And I should probably mention to everyone that regardless of what I did that night, odds are that I would never, NEVER hit a member of another swinging party just because they shot down my girlfriend. Had it been someone else, the circumstances would have been different.

But as for appearing in good taste, mature, etc... I did not care, and am not sorry. Maybe I'm just stubborn like that. But where maturity might be my problem, some of those who have pointed this out might want to look at ageism as THEIR problem. Sure, bad taste is never good. But neither is a condescending attitude...

However, I respect everyone's opinion and appreciate the feedback I've gotten thus far. Especially since it seems like most everyone read the damn thing. That deserves a thank you in itself.

So to clear up some individual facts:
- we never MADE swingers of friends. From what we had been led to believe, they were swingers already. As for swinging with friends and all that... Eh, it's what we do and I don't think we're changing that.
- When we got a straight NO that meant NO, we were actually much better. That's when we went back and just enjoyed sex with one another and were honestly not angry. Everything angry happened before they gave us a straight no.
- We don't actually intend to steal this guys girlfriend away, that was actually a joke. I respect the hell out of this guy and would do a lot for him.

And with that I've got to go pick up the lady from work. Thanks for the feedback, the cast list (God that was funny. I could use more of that. Every guy likes getting compared to Brad Pitt), and the Fight Club reference. Can't wait for more.

I swear I'm more mature than you might be taking me for.