Dealing with feeling left out

[mnbryant]

Wanted to express my feelings on this subject and glad I found this site to do so since it is not something you can tell anyone. We have be in the lifestyle on and off for three years. My wife has played with a few girls and I hard swapped a while back with a female. She has never wanted to hard swap for lack off getting past it being with a stranger. A couple of weeks ago she ran across and high school friend she hadn't seen in years and she was interested in him. I agreed and he accepted. Last weekend it happened and as I thought I had no problems with it. I was such a turn on to see him with her. She was dissapointed with his lack of being able to keep it up but we discussed this is a problem for a lot of men. she isn't used to that as I can keep it up thru a hurricane.......which is not always a good thing....lol......She is planning repeats as long as all are comfy and I am for it. I enjoyed it and want her to enjoy it but the problem is that I have been feeling left out. I don't think I should feel this way and she also feels like it is not fair but we do not know any single ladies to approach...Swing Lifestyle is not good for single females in our area. 3 years and no one close is interested. It would be nice to have someone for both but that could take a long time....I do not want her to feel guilty about it so how do I get passed feeling left out.....also I have not told her I feel that way....

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by mnbryant

I enjoyed it and want her to enjoy it but the problem is that I have been feeling left out. I don't think I should feel this way and she also feels like it is not fair but we do not know any single ladies to approach...Swing Lifestyle is not good for single females in our area. 3 years and no one close is interested. It would be nice to have someone for both but that could take a long time....I do not want her to feel guilty about it so how do I get passed feeling left out.....also I have not told her I feel that way....

Two solutions, and you can use both of these simultaneously:

With the high school friend (single guy), you could have a MFM threesome so you're not left out. Did you just sit there and only watch, while the two of them had regular MF-couple sex? A threesome with two straight men works very well, and both men can be actively involved at the same time. For example....while her friend is having intercourse with her, she could be giving you oral, or vice versa. Would you feel less left out if it were like this?

Secondly...rather than trying to manufacture a couple out of her single guy friend and some unknown single female that you'd have to recruit, the simple solution is to meet other couples! I know you said your wife doesn't want to do "strangers", but you could meet couples who have a preference of taking things slow and getting to know each other for awhile before sex happens. It could happen very gradually, as slow as you like, by going something like this:
Meet, connect on a personality level, and begin to make friends with them, going out a few/several times >
play flirty/sexy board games or strip poker, a little kissing or touching with the other couple, followed by having sex with your own spouse >
eventually enjoying full swap with the other couple when your wife is ready for that.

There are other couples out there like you, and other women who feel the way that your wife does.

[WesternSwing]

Two years ago it was much the same way for us. Mrs. WS had a steady boyfriend who was a single guy we had met and played with and it developed into more of a poly situation. I was traveling allot so she would go out with him and the several couples in our 'tribe' and play with them. In fact I only once played with one of the wifes in one of the other couple and to this day I've never played with another one, but both husbands have been with Mrs. WS on numerous occasions.

So I know how you feel. I felt that although I was getting plenty from Mrs. WS and also from others when we did play as a couple, I wasn't playing alone and she was, and she was definitely getting more action than I.

Then I thought to myself, "Self... this is stupid. Instead of being happy for her having such a great time I'm being selfish and envious, and I shouldn't be."

So I quit keeping score. It was killing the fun of the whole thing. When I did I started taking more joy in her experiences, with and without me. And she definitely always thanked me over and over and over for allowing her that freedom and never complaining about it.

Eventually it kind of came around. I've had several solo playtimes with other women in the past year and Mrs. WS has had no solo play with other men.

I think it just goes in cycles. Just accept it for what it is today, enjoy it, and be glad that even if it doesn't seem 'fair', you're still doing what many other men would love to do and never will.

Mr. WS

[mnbryant]

Yes it was a threesome so I was not left out in that way. I did leave the room a couple of times by my own choosing to try to make things more comfortable for him. After posting this today a little later I figured out what it was. He dates a girl that works with my wife that is bi. He does not like girl on girl situations and he does not know she is bi. They are not exclusive with each other to my understanding so I agreed to it. My wife does not want her to know about him and had considered talking to her until he said he didn't want her involved. the feeling left out comes from doing what he wanted. if they are not exclusive then what difference does it make if we have them both over seperately. She also only wants to do him..couples has never been and option. we have meet some and soft swapped ,girl girl situations but that is all. Of the 4 or 5 couples we have met the ones we really liked never talked to us again. I have no idea why but that is why we stopped meeting people online. I hard swapped once with a woman that was married and he wanted her to swap even though he wasn't allowed. As far as the points thing I agreed to this knowing it could take a long time to find someone.In 3 years we have never found one single girl online and I will have to do it locally. It may never happen but she has brought this up. Tonight I told her how I felt about it and well guess I should have kept my mouth shut. I was acused of keeping points just because I want to move toward meeting someone. This girl might not even be interested. But I would like the chance to find out. As far as the fact she works with her my wife had no problem with it till he said he did'nt want her involved. She later said she was afraid she might tell it at work. that is understandable but if he ends up telling or she finds out your are in the same boat. I told her tonight that to me that sounds like you will take the chance for you but not for me. I guess I am being selfish to want to do it to. But no matter she got mad and at this point it is over. She is no longer going to do it. Am I keeping points by wanting to move toward meeting someone. Am I being selfish to feel that way about this situation. I have never posted on a board like this but it is great to have another channel to express yourself and get feedback....thanks for all your input.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by mnbryant

She also only wants to do him..couples has never been and option.

So you are saying as far as full swing goes, she will not do it with anybody else but this high school friend?

Originally Posted by mnbryant

we have meet some and soft swapped ,girl girl situations but that is all. Of the 4 or 5 couples we have met the ones we really liked never talked to us again. I have no idea why but that is why we stopped meeting people online.

The great majority of couples want to both play. They won't want to meet a second time with a couple where the woman (your wife) will not play with the other husband, and is only there for the bi experience.

Originally Posted by mnbryant

I hard swapped once with a woman that was married and he wanted her to swap even though he wasn't allowed.

When you say "he wasn't allowed", do you mean that your wife wasn't allowing him to play with her, or the other man's wife didn't allow him to play with other women?

Was this woman the only time you ever got to have intercourse with somebody else in a swinging setting?

Originally Posted by mnbryant

As far as the points thing I agreed to this knowing it could take a long time to find someone. In 3 years we have never found one single girl online and I will have to do it locally.

Your experience with not finding a single female to play with in three years is expected....single females who want to play in this way are very rare.

If your wife was willing to play with others, you'd have a chance to have some "fair" play. Even if she was the kind that needed to take time to get to know a couple first, you'd still have better chances than you have now. As it stands at this time, it's not looking too good for you.

Are couples now entirely off the radar, even for just soft swinging?

[mnbryant]

So you are saying as far as full swing goes, she will not do it with anybody else but this high school friend?

Yes. She was interested in another single guy we met at a club but she never got comfy. We haven't played with anyone in several months and she told me she wanted to play with him and no one else. So singles are my only option.

The great majority of couples want to both play. They won't want to meet a second time with a couple where the woman (your wife) will not play with the other husband, and is only there for the bi experience.

These were couples like us. Guys watching or soft swap only. Let me add here she has no problem soft swapping with other guys. Only intercourse.

When you say "he wasn't allowed", do you mean that your wife wasn't allowing him to play with her, or the other man's wife didn't allow him to play with other women?

Was this woman the only time you ever got to have intercourse with somebody else in a swinging setting?

His wife did not allow him to do it so it was never an issue with my wife. Yes this is the only time I have been with another woman.

Are couples now entirely off the radar, even for just soft swinging?

I have not asked her that question. Our experiance with that lead both of us to loose interest because it was so time consuming and expensive. I belive she would if I asked but she has made it plain this week that she will not have intercourse with any guy besides him. I guess my choices are seek a single girl without her help. That will go over well talking to girls in a bar without my wife present.....Oh yes we can have sex you just have to meet my wife first...LOL....That would freak me out to....One thing I have learned in this is you have to know everything up front first. The second choice. Stop swinging.

[ShellyM]

I agree with Tybee on this one (cause shes a genius, thats why ).
OP, I don't know your wife, and can't stand in judgement of ANYONE. And I'm also not saying that she is doing anything maliciously. But its just not fair for her to get hers, and when you suggest at least couples (where she would still get hers, just in a different capacity) she says she won't because she doesnt know them. Now, I can understand being shy with new people....but in my opinion she needs to be making a little bit more of an effort in helping you to enjoy this lifestyle as well. I think perhaps you need to sit down with her and tell her exactly what you are feeling. Don't be mean at ALL, but please express how you are feeling. Shelly

[WesternSwing]

From your additional posts I can see more clearly now where you are coming from. It sounds like (and this is hearing only your side of it) that your wife wants her cake and doesn't care if you go hungry.

Also, there are some pretty screwed-up dynamics going on here and you are over analyzing the obvious.

Originally Posted by mnbryant

Yes it was a threesome so I was not left out in that way. I did leave the room a couple of times by my own choosing to try to make things more comfortable for him. After posting this today a little later I figured out what it was. He dates a girl that works with my wife that is bi. He does not like girl on girl situations and he does not know she is bi. They are not exclusive with each other to my understanding so I agreed to it. My wife does not want her to know about him and had considered talking to her until he said he didn't want her involved.

.Okay, he's dating a girl your wife works with and they are in a non-exclusive relationship, BUT he doesn't want her to know he's knocking boots with your wife. Someone is lying here. And a coworker? This is two trains on the same track and it's just a matter of time until they collide. This is drama waiting to happen.

the feeling left out comes from doing what he wanted. if they are not exclusive then what difference does it make if we have them both over seperately.

No, the feeling of being left out comes from doing what THEY both want, not just him. And I agree, if they are in fact non-exclusive it shouldn't matter if you have her over separately of him.

She also only wants to do him..couples has never been and option.

Many people do find someone they want to be exclusive with for awhile, but in every instance I know of they did full swap for some time beforehand. They knew what the score was before they became exclusive in some poly-like arrangement with a third or another couple. Your wife doesn't seem to have this background yet and she may be mistaking what it really is for something more. She may currently be blinded to the reality by the current fantasy. It's also not uncommon for this to happen to newbies (I say this because although you say you've been at this three years this is the first full-on sex experience for your wife); the excitement of being desired by someone besides just your spouse can be overwhelming until you get a handle on reality again.

we have meet some and soft swapped ,girl girl situations but that is all. Of the 4 or 5 couples we have met the ones we really liked never talked to us again. I have no idea why but that is why we stopped meeting people online.

I can tell you exactly why... you two are drama looking for a place to set-up camp. These couples recognized this and ran as fast as they could.

I hard swapped once with a woman that was married and he wanted her to swap even though he wasn't allowed.

Another drama couple with the "I can do it but you can't" scenario you have with your wife.

In 3 years we have never found one single girl online and I will have to do it locally. It may never happen but she has brought this up.

It will happen. Our first FMF found us at a regional Burning Man event. The rest have been women we've met together at non-swinger clubs, and for me playing solo an old friend of Mrs. WS' who is single and the wives of a some couples we've both played with that also play solo on occasion. But, it took about three years in the lifestyle to get to this point for us.

Tonight I told her how I felt about it and well guess I should have kept my mouth shut. I was acused of keeping points just because I want to move toward meeting someone.

Taking back the comments in my earlier post... WELL DUH! Isn't that the point? If it's not, then it definitely is a case of she eats her cake while you starve.

As far as the fact she works with her my wife had no problem with it till he said he did'nt want her involved. She later said she was afraid she might tell it at work.

Yeah, because they don't really have a non-exclusive arrangement and he knows if this woman finds out she will out him and your wife out of revenge.

I told her tonight that to me that sounds like you will take the chance for you but not for me.

Exactly correct.

I guess I am being selfish to want to do it to.

No, you are not. Swinging is the great equalizer in a relationship. If the relationship isn't on an equal keel when you start it will either quickly level itself or the couple will bail-out really quick because it will just create more issues than there already were. Unfortunately swinging will get the rap for the problems and possible demise of their relationship rather than blame being placed where it should be, squarely with themselves.

But no matter she got mad and at this point it is over. She is no longer going to do it.

Her seeing him, also?

Am I keeping points by wanting to move toward meeting someone. Am I being selfish to feel that way about this situation.

Are you keeping points? Yes. Are you selfish because you want to move toward having what she is having? No. Don't use one for the other. Meet someone without comparing yourself to her otherwise you are doing it out of spite.

I have never posted on a board like this but it is great to have another channel to express yourself and get feedback....thanks for all your input.

You bet, I hope I haven't been too hard on you.

Mr. WS

[mnbryant]

You bet, I hope I haven't been too hard on you

NO not at all. That is why I posted here. I Like to hear truthful opions because it helps me to see what I am saying and doing. Your upfront honesty is appreciated.

Are you keeping points?Yes

I honestly did not look at I that way but you have shown me that people do look at it that way. My definition of keeping points is I have to have it every time you get it. I just thought it was fair to be able to persue someone without it being scored. Helps me understand why she has said I was keeping score all week. I guess then I should not voice that I want to persue someone. So what do I do sit quitely till she tells me to find someone?

Meet someone without comparing yourself to her otherwise you are doing it out of spite

I did not see this coming but will give it thought. I feel more like she is doing it for spite at this point. There is more than what I have stated. I have just kept it to the main issue that made me stop and think about it.

[mnbryant]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

I agree with Tybee on this one (cause shes a genius, thats why ).
OP, I don't know your wife, and can't stand in judgement of ANYONE. And I'm also not saying that she is doing anything maliciously. But its just not fair for her to get hers, and when you suggest at least couples (where she would still get hers, just in a different capacity) she says she won't because she doesnt know them. Now, I can understand being shy with new people....but in my opinion she needs to be making a little bit more of an effort in helping you to enjoy this lifestyle as well. I think perhaps you need to sit down with her and tell her exactly what you are feeling. Don't be mean at ALL, but please express how you are feeling. Shelly

Shellym I sat down last night and told her my feeling and I am more disturbed now than I was. It did not go well an I spent the night gettings words put into my mouth. Thanks for the replies from all. I have to say this lifestlye is not gonna work for us two. We still have to many problems.

[ShellyM]

Hey, its okay. Its NOT for everyone. You tried, and the most important thing is that you are happy TOGETHER as a couple. Do NOT feel bad, there are alot of couples that try this and find that its just not their cup of tea. As long as you two are in love and happy thats all that matters!!!!!!!!!
Best of luck to you,
Shell