My mom knows we're swingers: How do we deal with being found out?

[Tom & Bonnie]

Originally Posted by jdtpcouple

Here's what I'm expecting so far:
*accusations of defiling the sanctity of holy matrimony
*homosexuality is a sin
*sex with anyone besides your spouse IS cheating
*you're going to get AIDS & die, then you'll really be sorry

Please, add to my list and provide your answers/response.

I will answer your religious questions and give you a few more areas to do some research that will help you with your situation.

I’m not a religious person, being an atheist, but I do study religion and have read the bible extensively. In my business (a swingers club owner) I get contacted regularly by religious fanatics who try and preach to me about how my sinning ways will do me in. I end up coming back to them quoting their own book and they will all leave with their tails tucked between their legs.

I was also interviewed by a student who was doing a paper on Swinging and religion at a local Catholic University, a priest who taught the class annoted many of my quotes with “He’s right!” so hopefully I can shed some of this knowledge with you.

First of all, there a few good sites to give you some basic knowledge on swinging.

First, The result of the most recent online poll of swingers entitled Today’s Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers http://www.ejhs.org/volume3/swing/body.htm

Swinging and Aids. The CDC (Center for Disease Control) does not even consider swingers as a source of infection or transmission of HIV/AIDS. I think the figures I saw put swingers infection rate at less than 1/10 of 1 percent… Unbelievably low. That can better be explained at http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/pptalk.htm in HIV & AIDS - An Actuarial Analysis of the AIDS Epidemic in the US where they sum up AIDS/HIV infection rate among healthy heterosexuals (Like Swingers) as follows:

At the same time, the vast majority of Americans are healthy heterosexuals. ("Healthy" within the context of this paper means free of street drugs, other sexually transmitted diseases, and immune system disorders which might make one susceptible to HIV and AIDS.) For them, the conclusions as to risk levels and best techniques for the prevention of HIV transmission can be summarized as follows:
1. Unless one has a regular sexual relationship with someone who is HIV-positive, it is virtually impossible to become infected with HIV by heterosexual intercourse.
2. Mutual monogamy provides little protection from AIDS, because most HIV transmissions from heterosexual contact are from someone infected by non-sexual means such as IV drug use or blood transfusions, to his or her regular (and quite possibly monogamous) sexual partner.
3. Multiple sexual partners involve little or no increase in risk of HIV infection, as compared with monogamous relationships.
4. Because the risk of HIV transmission is so extremely remote for this group. Urging the use of condoms will do virtually nothing to prevent transmission of HIV. Therefore, because condoms intrude so much on the lovemaking process, there usually is little point in using one, unless it is felt necessary for the prevention of pregnancy or the transmission of other, more easily transmitted, sexually transmitted diseases ("STDs").
5. AIDS education and prevention efforts for heterosexuals, as presently structured, can be counterproductive, because it may create fear and paranoia which in turn may cause more of an increase in mortality than that from the rare case of HIV transmission that might be prevented. Instead, the focus of AIDS education and prevention for this group should concentrate on three points:
By far the most important way to prevent HIV infection is to maintain a healthy body, free of street drugs, other STDs, and immune system disorders, so that one's body will not be susceptible to HIV infection, if by chance one is exposed.
This can further be verified among the swinging community where the only instance of AIDS/HIV in a swingers club/group that has ever surfaced was in a club in the mid west, where a woman turned up to be positive for the virus although none of her sexual play partners at the club did. It turns out she had a relationship outside the club with two other men who were both IV Drug Users.

Now for the religious parts….

Someone has already mentioned Dave’s Liberated Christians Site as a handy reference tool, I would as well. Visit his site here.

Homosexuality is no more a sin than is eating oysters and shrimp.

From Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So, if homosexuality is a sin (Or at least an abomination [a lesser sin?]) and you should be put to death for it, then so should those who eat crabs, oyster & shrimp….

But most religious people will say that the old testament doesn’t apply since Jesus’s new covenant. So what did Jesus say about Homosexuality? …………… Nothing! Not a thing! Zip!

Adultery….

Adultery as written about in the bible refers to men’s property. Women were considered someone else’s property. First their fathers, as he could sell her into sex slavery (Exodus 21:7-11) if he wishes, then her husbands. So committing adultery was the taking of another mans property. The big problem was not about sex but about heirs. If another man fathered a male son by another mans wife, that son could inherit the husbands property and that would not do at all.

Here is an interesting quote from someone who should know….
There is no more harm in adultery than in rubbing one's hands together.
-- Pope Boniface VIII, from Draper, Intellectual Development of Europe (vol. 2, p. 88)

But what is really interesting is the fact that Adultery may not be one of the ten commandments in the first place. In Exxodus 20 The story of Moses on Mount Sinai has God giving Moses a stone tablet with the ten commandments written on them and, according to Moses (no one else could read), one is listed as “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. However, Moses, after coming back down the mountain with the two stone tablets with the commandments written on them saw the people dancing around a golden calf that Aaron had fashioned as a god to worship. So, in a fit ofrage, Moses broke these stone tablets Exxodus 32:19, and then God directed Moses to have all these people killed.

Later on, after all the bloodletting, God instructed Moses in Exxodus 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Well when Moses went back up to the mount the next morning to retrieve these tablets the commandments that were inscribed on the new tablet did not include the one about adultery Exxodus 34:11 – 28

Now about matrimonial vows, cheating, etc.…. First off, men were directed by God that they may take as many wives as they wished. (Genesis 4:19; Exxodus 21:10) Or, sex slaves, concubines (Genesis 25:6; 1 Kings 11;,) whatever they wished as long as they did not take another mans property. They way I see it, I’m not taking another man’s property away from him as long as he knows about it… Cause she goes home with him at the end of the night.

As far as your vows, you are not breaking those, I am faithful to my wife, she knows whom I’m fucking and when…. Your not slipping around behind anyone’s back…

I know this is long winded but I hope it helps you with your problem.

[jdtpcouple]

Originally Posted by lovinher

Just curious, is Mother telling the community about you?

Well I haven't heard anything from anyone so far. I'm sure she'll tell my step-dad at the very least. Maybe her closest church friends or bishop. My dad may extend the info to grandma & aunt...So far its just my speculation.

Originally Posted by gandm

When I read your story, I felt myself becoming very angry. After my 2nd or 3rd reading, I am really impressed with how level headed your questions are in this situation.

Thanks. I guess I have developed a well of patience for her emotional responses after growing up with it. I have the ability to hear the bait without taking it. I filter through the emotion and only provide informative logical responses. (Plus my dad's a salesman so I guess I learned some side stepping talk too)

Originally Posted by Edison Carter

You were taking charge of your sexual life. Taking that kind of control scares the hell out of some people.

No kidding, I remember laughing at her when she told me I wanted to get pregnant to "make him stay." It's ridiculous, if I wanted to get pregnant, why was I on the pill?
As for current events, the same applies. The fact that I explore my sexuality with the knowledge and consent of my husband instead of taking the vanilla road & cheating is appalling to her. She wouldn't approve of cheating either...but she'd accept it over swinging any day. I just don't get that.

Originally Posted by tribbles

You call people who give you comments that are judgemental, that you don't ask for, friends?

Sort of. I can name some vanilla friends who'd be frightened by the idea of swinging and lay in to me about it. That's the reason we'd like to keep them vanilla friends. Leaving religion & sex out of the conversation they are good people and fun friends to have....they wouldn't in a million years hold their tongue and say "to each his own" on this topic. Some of them, given the time and information, would be able to get past their fear, others wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Tom & Bonnie

I end up coming back to them quoting their own book and they will all leave with their tails tucked between their legs.

I hear you on that. I used the principle of "free agency" with my mother.
For non LDS its the teaching that God wants us to "choose the right" but ulitmately it is up to us to make our own choices and accept responsibility for them.
Thank you for all your quotes & research. I learned a lot just from your post. I can't wait to dig deeper into the information.

[intuition897]

I think at the end of the game, we're all going to be suprised at the company we're in, wherever we end up. I know where I'm headed, but I don't think I'll lay any bets as to who I'll meet when I get there...or who'll be missing. That's just not up to me to decide. That is ultimately a very personal thing between God and the individual. I'll never understand the thought processes of people who feel they need to make the souls of others their personal business. They should have their hands full with their own.

Man, I soooo share your views on all of this! I totally understand what you're saying, that you are discrete because, knowing your friends'/relatives' views on sex and morality, others would misinterpret what you do. Telling them would be fine if you thought they would eventually understand, that it would improve their lot in life somehow, or if it served some sort of purpose other than mere self-satisfaction. I've written on here about how much I disagree with cheaters "protecting" spouses from the truth, and I can imagine they'd be confused with my statement about protecting others from the truth of our lifestyle because we feel they are unable to handle it. The difference is, I don't OWE family or friends any explanation of our sex life. It's none of their business. Besides, what we're doing is not harmful to them or to anyone else...even us. Cheaters can't tell because what they're doing is harmful and wrong, and even though their reasons for not disclosing their behaviour is purely SELF-centred (NOT to protect their spouse, but their own asses from the unpleasantness of acknowledging that they're lower than dogshit), their spouses are directly involved and are entitled to know. Not telling our families/friends isn't deceit. It's simply a matter of protecting our privacy.

The idea that your busy-body Mom would tell anyone really bothers me. The world needs its whistle-blowers, but not when the thing they're blowing their whistles about is NOT the world's business!! My policy on the matter is, if you don't have direct first-hand knowledge of a thing, you shouldn't hand down judgments on it. There's no shame in saying, "I don't know." Rather, one should be ashamed of spewing bullshit about a thing one knows nothing about. We all do it now and then - myself included - but it is definitely something to diligently avoid. Otherwise, you just label yourself an incompetent, blithering idiot.

I don't know about everyone else, but I like to believe that someday, when all we humans have finally extinguished our own race from existence (or when God deems fit), we'll shed the physical body and finally - FINALLY - know what it is to not be locked inside our own heads all alone. Where we won't have to phrase things a certain way or explain ourselves. Thoughts, feelings, impressions, concepts will all pass from one person to another in a Matrix-like "download" or sort of like a multi-sensory/dimensional "brain-fax". The human barriers come down and there will no longer be any misunderstandings. No misunderstandings = no conflict. The truth of things will be self-evident, and no one can hide it any longer...good or bad. That means all our misdeeds come to light, as well as every good turn you've ever done that went unnoticed. And the truth of why we do what we do will finally be understood. This is my hope.

Chicup, I expect you'll have fun with that last paragraph.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by jdtpcouple

When I was 17 my mom searched my room and found my birth control pills. She packed everything I owned & threw me out, never to speak to me again (for about a year). She was convinced I'd be in the streets, doing drugs & paying for them with prostitution. A senior in high school and not able to legally obtain my own place to live, I stayed with a school friend for a couple of months until graduation. Then I was on my own.

This pharagraph says a lot!

So, let me get this straight. She mentioned a (supposedly true) story about a child being killed "because" her parents "were swingers", while she was the one who, without even being swinger, but just because of her beliefs, leave you in a way more dangerous situation (while imagining one of the worstest outcomes)?

This is outrageous. You mother OWES you BIG TIME, she already proven she doesn't meet the minimal moral requirements as to prettend to be on a higher ground than yourself.

My gut's reaction here would be cynical: "that's right, Mommy... do you remember when you throw me out to the streets, that you thoguht I was prostituting myself. Well, you was right, and that turned me into a swinger. I am swinging thanks to you, and blame on you if something ever happens to your grandchilds should something happens to them because I swing. This is a risk YOU bring tho them in the first place".

What I don't quite follow here, is how you still let her undermine your values and how you allow her the place to judge your life, after what she did to you.

I understand that, giving her (doubious but hard) moral standards, this may put you in a similar situation than the one when she discovered your pills: being afraid of being "abandoned" by her again. And of course, I understand the value of avoiding a confrontation here.

With all of this... why she was able to sneak in your computer? You may have profiles with passwords to preserve your privacy, or configure your browser to avoid keeping track of the history. I have this feeling that you set up your own trap, as to give her your head in a silver plate.

But, what's worth to point out here is, that she should have the same interests in avoiding a conflict able to set you both appart for good.

If she doesn't, then you're in a big problem, because whether you like it ot not, you mother doesn't deserve all of those concerns nor to have a relationship with you: she would be acting like a caring mother, but wanting you to live her life.

But if she does, then you have all the tools at hand to turn the tables. You don't have anything to explain to her, you're a grown up woman, with your own values. It isn't her business wheter you swing or not, and her evaluation for the risks your behavior (whatever it is) impose to YOUR childrens doesn't have ANY value, given the fact that she already proven not being able to evaluate the same sort of risks resulting for her own behavior as a mother with her daughter (you) when HER OWN CHOICES really matter.

She have two options here: to live with her doubts and fears about you, and accept this terms, or to attempt to judge your behavior and impose her ideas to you. Just that this time everything changed: you're the grown up woman, and she's the one who, sooner or later, will deppend on you. It is her choice wheter you take care of her, or if she prefers to live the last years of her life deprived from your and her grandchilds presence.

I know this is pretty rough. But I want you to realize you have your own position of power from where to negotiate with her, bringing her to your own terrain during the battle.

[likkit69]

although i'm not experienced enough to offer advice i do have a question, Whats with the story about the little girl getting murdered because her parents were swingers...is that something your mother made up or is that something that actually happened? and if it did happen, what was it all about? kinda freaks me out.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by likkit69

although i'm not experienced enough to offer advice i do have a question, Whats with the story about the little girl getting murdered because her parents were swingers...is that something your mother made up or is that something that actually happened? and if it did happen, what was it all about? kinda freaks me out.

I guess she pick it up from the TV show CSI. In any case, it sounds much like a hoax. A daughter of a swinger couple being murdered isn't against the statistics, but the "because" would be a BIG because. Let's avoid make echo of the irrational fears, please.

[Tybee Swing]

Hi jdtp, like your husband, I'm of the mind that our sex life is nobody else's business. I'm not inclined to talk to them about our outside activities any more than I would talk to parents and neighbors about other sexual details about us. It's none of their business, end of discussion.

Originally Posted by jdtpcouple

Yesterday I got off the phone with my sobbing mother. She didn't say how she figured it out,but I'm guessing her access to my PC did the trick. One too many clicks on my internet browser back button, and the web history speaks for itself.
...
When I was 17 my mom searched my room and found my birth control pills. She packed everything I owned & threw me out, never to speak to me again (for about a year). She was convinced I'd be in the streets, doing drugs & paying for them with prostitution. A senior in high school and not able to legally obtain my own place to live, I stayed with a school friend for a couple of months until graduation. Then I was on my own.

I was cut off emotionally, socially, and financially from the sheltered Mormon community I was raised in. I attended junior college full time, worked two part time jobs (child labor laws preventing me from getting one full time), and lived in a seedy pay by the week motel where they didn't care that I was a minor as long as I paid the $125/week on time. In my own defiant way, I remained a "good" kid with "bad" morals. The days of being ashamed of my sexual desires are long over for me.

I wasn't Mormon, but I can relate to your background. While nobody found pills and kicked me out, I was raised with threats of being kicked out if I ever ____. (You could fill in the blanks with a number of things.) I won't bog this down with too much detail, but suffice it to say I relate to a lot of what you went through. I left home very early, supported myself, went to college at night, and took care of myself.

About parental relationships: I agree with what others have said about your mother, especially Serenieders. She has NO right to tell you anything, anymore. What she did was morally and probably legally wrong - throwing out a young teenage girl on the streets. What is she thinking, dissing you for anything you may choose to do? She threw you away a long time ago.

But, you seem to have kept her in your life. She was over at your house snooping around on your computer, so it seems that you have a relationship. In my case, I believed that my parents forfieted the right to a relationship with me and my daughter, based on how they treated me for the first 19 years of my life. I just didn't feel that I needed to be exposed to their crap any longer, didn't want to subject my nuclear family to their crap, either. So, I have distanced myself from them ever since. I maintain the driver's seat on how that goes. If I saw them and they started their antics (verbal abuse, manipulation, etc), I left. I never depended on them for anything again, so I was in a place to be able to get up and walk away. I figured that one day, they'd learn to change their ways with me, if they wanted to see me.

Your mother has a relationship with you and your children - probably a close one. Does she deserve it? Has she earned a place in your lives? Remember, she tossed you out, and she felt justified in doing it. She probably still feels justified. And she probably thinks she has a right to sit in judgment on you now, about your sex life. She has no rights with you, at all. She only has what you allow her to have. You have the power in this.

Originally Posted by jdtpcouple

What I want to know from the board is this:
What judgments can I expect to be thrown at me/us?
Has anyone else had this happen to them?
What will people ask me about?
How did/would you respond?

You can expect all kinds of judgments to be thrown at you, as it's already happening. Throw them back!! Tell her that she put you out when you were still a child, and she has no right to tell anything. Tell her that your sex life is not her business, and that if she brings it up again, ___________. (You fill in the consequence.)

Consider this: do you want your children growing up exposed to the disrespectful way she treats you, and exposed to her morals? The closer you allow her to be in your lives, the more exposure they'll have to her twisted ways. The more you give her a voice in your life, the more this will be true.

Big hugs for you! I'll be thinking about you, and I hope you report back how this goes.

[oncewere]

I know this is closing the gate after the horse got out but I'd like to remind everyone of the buttons that delete the web site history, cache, and cookies. Kids are even more snoopy than parents. Protect them a bit by deleting the evidence before you log off. Keep your pix and contacts on a USB drive kept elsewhere, and don't use the feature where the operating system automatically enters your password. Do all your "interesting" communications on a password protected account to which only you and your spouse have the password. Don't leave any evidence on the computer than what you want your parents and kids to find.

Paranoid? Yeah. Kids will find anything you leave and even little kids may know more about the computer than most adults.

[jdtpcouple]

Originally Posted by likkit69

Whats with the story about the little girl getting murdered because her parents were swingers...is that something your mother made up or is that something that actually happened?and if it did happen, what was it all about? kinda freaks me out.

Please remember that (to generalize) religion responds to sex by using fear and shame. Don't buy into that bullshit! It took some detailed Google-ing, but I found it . The quote that ties the murder to swinging is as follows:

"The defense is expected to argue at trial that someone the van Dams met through swinging or at a party at their house could have been the girl's killer. Prosecutors are expected to argue at trial that the van Dams' marital activities on the night that their daughter was abducted are irrelevant to Westerfield's guilt or innocence.

The man was their neighbor and had child pornography on his computer. He was a sick freak and his defense attorneys tried to get him off by blaming swinging.

Lets pretend he wasn't. Lets pretend as she (mom) implied, that the mother met him at a swing party, rejected him, and he followed her home, stole her daughter, raped, and killed her. My husband is good at the analogies so I'll let him speak here:
"Saying someone raped and killed a child because they are a swinger is like saying someone molests children because they are gay"

My husband had another jewel for me too when she asked if I thought the parents questioned their lifestyle choice after losing their daughter.

"This past Sun a man walked into a church and opened fire on the congregation. Does she think the church members question their lifestyle now that their friends/family are gone? If they hadn't gone to church, that wouldn't have happened to them right?"

So were these examples results of a lifestyle choice, or random encounters with truly insane individuals willing to take another human life?

[jdtpcouple]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I'll never understand the thought processes of people who feel they need to make the souls of others their personal business. They should have their hands full with their own.

Amen to that!

Originally Posted by sereneiders

I understand that, giving her (doubious but hard) moral standards, this may put you in a similar situation than the one when she discovered your pills: being afraid of being "abandoned" by her again.

Not so much. As a kid I could have forgone the struggles I had if I had "admitted" I was wrong and conformed to their values. I didn't then, I won't now.

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

But, you seem to have kept her in your life.

When it was all said and done it was her who came to me, she who had to accept me for who I am and present the request to rebuild the relationship. Thus far she's been able to reconcile what she believes with the things we didn't hide from her: The fact that we watch pornography, visit strip clubs, purchase sex toys etc. Up until now she hasn't tried to "change" me again, remembering I already proved I don't need her to survive.

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Consider this: do you want your children growing up exposed to the disrespectful way she treats you, and exposed to her orals?

This may seem weird, and I know a lot of you will disagree here but the short answer is: yes.
Let me explain. In their lives they will encounter people like her, who think they know whats right and will try to impose their standards on them. They need to know that people will think they have a right to decide things for them. They need to know those people are full of shit and they should make their own decisions and accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, good or bad. They need to see that its ok to stand up to for who they are. I learned early in life that my value as a person does not lie in whether or not someone else chooses to love me or be a part of my life. People will come, they will go, I am still great no matter what they choose to do. I want my children to learn this concept too and they will emulate what I do much more than what I say.

That being said, that does NOT by any way mean I'll allow her to become abusive to me further. Yes she had access to my PC, yes she abused that access. Maybe I take it too lightly but I sort of see it as opening the bathroom cabinet when you visit someone's home, or reading tabloid magazines. People have a fascination with finding out about others. Ultimately, she only harmed herself because she was the one who ended up crying and my husband and I have only become more convinced that we are making the absolute right choice for our marriage and happiness.

Originally Posted by oncewere

I know this is closing the gate after the horse got out but I'd like to remind everyone of the buttons that delete the web site
history, cache, and cookies. Kids are even more snoopy than parents.

Still a valid point worth making though for the other horses who haven't "jumped the gun." Our PC is set up so that we have an adult windows profile and a kids one. (Window XP "switch users" function) So they have Spiderman as their background image and their web browser opens up to Sesame Workshop instead of our Gmail homepage. Recently though we purchased a laptop computer and in light of recent events we began discussing the option of only using the laptop for adult sites and "giving" the PC to the kids. We can password protect the laptop so even if they snoop in our room when they get old enough, they won't be able to access anything "good"

[Tybee Swing]

Hi jdtp couple, I thought about you this afternoon several times. (Isn't it funny how affected you can be by people you don't even know?) It occurred to me that the two key times that your mother made huge judgments on you and wigged out on you, it was due to her being invasive, intrusive, and being disrespectful of your privacy. Both times, she went looking for trouble. It's as if she was looking for something to incriminate you with.

I'll bet that when you were 17, you didn't leave your pills laying around casually, because you knew the repercussions. I'll bet that your mother had to dig through your stuff to find those pills. Then, she reigned down hellfire and brimstone on you. Now, she went snooping into your computer (hitting the back button or whatever, seeing what you were up to). Now, she's throwing judgments at you once again. You're not sure who she'll tell or how far this will go (again, disrespectful of your privacy). These two events seem almost the same in this way: she went looking for trouble until she found it. It just feels like she takes some sort of delight in finding you guilty of something, and then making you pay.

This is what I meant earlier when I said something about considering allowing her to be very close to your children. It seems likely that she may eventually treat them the way that she has treated you. As a mom myself, the reason I keep a certain distance from my parents now is primarily to protect my daughter from getting even an ounce of the drama and *crap* that I had to be subjected to.

I respect what you're saying, though. It's your decision, and you sound like a very thoughtful woman (as well as an excellent mom). I just relate to you very strongly with the drama-queen, judgmental, and manipulative mother. Hugs!

[tribbles]

This may seem weird, and I know a lot of you will disagree here but the short answer is: yes.
Let me explain. In their lives they will encounter people like her, who think they know whats right and will try to impose their standards on them. They need to know that people will think they have a right to decide things for them. They need to know those people are full of shit and they should make their own decisions and accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, good or bad. They need to see that its ok to stand up to for who they are. I learned early in life that my value as a person does not lie in whether or not someone else chooses to love me or be a part of my life. People will come, they will go, I am still great no matter what they choose to do. I want my children to learn this concept too and they will emulate what I do much more than what I say.

You totally rock!

[daisy girl]

You can't change your mother. You can only be yourself and be proud of the person you are. You have to live your life in a way that embraces who you are as a person and supports you. Many will criticize you for multiple reasons...but ultimately, the choices that you make drive who you are.

[edmustang]

Originally Posted by cassies

(certainly going to hell in a mormon world.)

"...and loving it!" (done in my best Maxwell Smart voice)

Why wouldn't I want to go? Everyone I care about will be there.


Quote:
This may seem weird, and I know a lot of you will disagree here but the short answer is: yes.
Let me explain. In their lives they will encounter people like her, who think they know whats right and will try to impose their standards on them. They need to know that people will think they have a right to decide things for them. They need to know those people are full of shit and they should make their own decisions and accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, good or bad. They need to see that its ok to stand up to for who they are.


That's an interesting and very brave stance. If you can put your mother's ravings into the proper context for them, then I think it could work very well.

[edmustang]

Can someone please clue me in on how to put multiple quotes in a post? I couldn't find it. Thanks.