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Help needed--too involved with another couple

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Hi All, we are a couple in our mid fifties and have been in the lifestyle for about 7 years. About 4 years ago we hooked up with a lifestyle couple that we became very fond of and soon were seeing them almost weekly. They have alway been a little insecure and were jealous if we wanted to just visit another lifestyle couple or a cub without them. We became close enough where we started doing seperate dates with them and even a few long weekend seperate dates with them. Along the way over time my wife and the guy in the other couple have developed some really close and emotional feeling for each other even to the point of being 'in love' and yet she very much loves me as well. The other guy's wife (my girlfriend ??) is having a really hard time with this and feels her marriage/relationship with her husband is suffering because he is not paying enough loving romantic attention to her like he does to my wife. No doubt he has a great hot sexy loving relationship with my wife, but his wife feels she is missing out and feels like number 2. They have had numerous talks about this and yet nothing really changes. My feeling is I wish we could see other couples once in a while with out causing a lot of drama from either of this other couple. I als feel if we did this it may take some of the pressure and intensisty off the close relationship of my wife and her boyfriend. I am not sure how we got into this situation, slowly ovr time I guess, but wish some things would change and yet I don't want to hurt any of them. Is is possible to go back to a lesser relationship with a couple once it has become so intense between the two in the party or would that just end the friendship. Any thoughts or advise on this or a look at it from another view point would be appreciated. Thank You Paul

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I'm sorry I don't really have any great advice, but I feel for all of you.

 

I think since you've known them so long and are so close it would be worthwhile to all sit down together and talk about your hopes for the future. It sounds like it would be good to have some distance, but it would be sad to end it completely.

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Maybe I'm over simplifying, but, walk away from this couple while you can with everything in tact. He''s " in love" with your wife.. THAT'S THE RED LINE IN THE SAND... walk away.. If it pisses them off, GOOD!!! SO BE IT!@@ He has a WIFE of his own that he should be paying attention to, and his wife even complains about it? If YOU are tired of yours, and willing to surrender her to him, then YOU need to back up and decide where you two stand. She has an "emotional" relationship with the other hubby??? WTF????

Sometimes ya just wanna reach through the monitor and grab someone and shake them!!!..

If you're tired of your marriage, or she is, you two at least need to get back on the same page, whether it's about your wife's " boyfriend" and her, getting an apartment, or just moving, you need to read what you wrote, then tell us... WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE someone that wrote that????

Good luck! Uf you're more concerned about "hurt feelings" than losing your wife, well, there's other questions you should be asking.

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I'll add that it really depends on what the four of you want. Many people are ok with having feelings or even love, as long as boundaries are maintained and everyone is comfortable with the attention they are getting. Maybe if the other husband recognizes his wife's feelings he can make sure she is first, and still have his relationship with your wife. It sounds like you are ok with the feelings between them, but would like more variety.

 

Please do update us. This is an interesting situation and I'm sure however it works out it will be helpful to others.

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My gut tells me the following. YMMV, IMHO, etc.

1) You've described two marriages in grave danger of imploding.

2) To try to save your own marriage you and your wife together must DISCONNECT IMMEDIATELY AND PERMANENTLY FROM THIS COUPLE.

3) To try to save our own marriage you and your wife should take a break from swinging, examine your "swinging goals" as they relate to the more broad goals of your marriage, and redefine your "swinging rules" should you decide to continue.

 

There's all kinds of, IMHO, dysfunction in what you've described. Your marriages aren't open, no one is Poly, they are not respecting boundaries, and are a poster couple for jealousy, insecurity, and drama.

 

You need to have a long talk with your wife about her feelings, too.

 

They (or just him) are manipulating you and your wife, and what you describe sounds like anything but fun. Why would you accept any of the feelings and underlying discomfort WHEN YOUR MARRIAGE ITSELF IS AT RISK.

 

Forget about "I wish we could see other couples" and the hope that will fix this mess. DISCONNECT PERMANENTLY from this couple.

 

Okay, everything above I just wrote is IMHO, YMMV, and now getting off my soapbox. I feel very concerned for you, and am glad you posted. Please feel free to ignore anything and everything I've written.

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Susan here-- I originally wrote a long advice ridden post. This is better:

 

1. Their jealous of your interest in others.

 

2. He's behaving inappropriately and ignoring his wife.

 

3. You'd like to Play with other people.

 

So, you explain because of the above, your sexual goals are really not compatible for now and you hope to see them around. And by the way, THEIR drama is not YOUR problem.

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How does your wife feel about seeing other couples? If she's fine with it, then the four of you should have a conversation. Yes, it might cause hurt feelings, but there are hurt feelings now.

 

Honestly, this doesn't sound like a very healthy relationship, given the jealousy on their side, some evidence that their marriage is shaky and your very understandable desire to see others.

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I agree with most of Swingularity's points but I don't think you need to disconnect permanently right now. Still a temporary break from them is necessary for both you and your wife and the other couple to reassess your marriages and what you want to get out of swinging, and you can only do that by taking some of that emotion out of the equation by staying away. There are a lot of red flags here as pointed out by the other posters, and you and your wife need to really talk about the drama and consequences of this relationship.

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Thank you all who have responded with some thoughts and view points which are interesting. Well all except Junglecouple that may have came on a little strong "... wanting to reach through the monitor and shake someone". A little more back ground on the situation, I feel my wife and I have a good marriage and neither of wants to end it. Nothing was said about as was mentioned in one post about her and her boyfriend "moving into an apartment" That is not the case, but it is a little more involved than just walking away form this cold turkey, they basically are good people in a lot of ways. We interact wiht their family, their kids and grand kids and are involved to some degree. Thye like wise are good friends with my wife's family, which by the way are 1200 miles away and do not know that we are in the lifestyle. Their family on the other hand dose know a little about us 4 being in the lifstyle. We would have prefered that they would not have told them that detail and just let them asume we were close vanilla friends. How be it it is out there. So you can see just cutting this off cold turkey would affect a lot of other peoples lives to some degree. Someone asks if the wife was on board with me wanting to see other couples or at least go to a swingers club and she is. She at times misses this too, but probably not quite as much as I do. She and I have talked on numerous occassions that we need to try to take back control of our life some and not let them control it so much. We have tried to an extent to limit our engagement with them to every other weekend instead of every week like it was there for quite a while. They always seem to want more of us though, except when they have something else that they want to do. The main problem seems to be that the boyfriend seems to have his feeling quite a bit to strong for my wife, although if his wife asks him he says that my wife's feeling and emltions are too strong and deep for him. In the mean time his wife is hurting quite a bit and at times is physically sick because of all this and yet she doesn't wan to end teh friendship either. I am just not sure what the answer is here. Again thanks for all your thoughts and view points and more are welcom Thank You Paul

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Paul. The question is .. what are you going to do. Sounds like you are ok with how it is going. You just want to swing with other couples more than they do. Tell us what you end up doing.

To me this seems like alot of Drama that is amounting to not much.

Unless there is something else going on that you are not adding? I think there might be more.

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A difficult situation.

 

Worth remembering that the primary relationship--you and your wife--is foundational to the LS. It might be worth revisiting the discussions you had just as you entered the LS and recapitulating your reasons for joining and liking the LS.

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Great, so your wife is in love with another man, and he is in love with her. This will not end well. I'm not saying that it will end up with you divorced etc, though it is a possibility, but I mean there will be strong emotions and tears involved. If you loved the other woman too and you were all a big love fest this may work for a time as the poly thing, but it seems based on your posts this is not the case.

 

Its too late to worry about where you goofed up, but how to proceed.

 

If it were me personally, its time to back away. No more "dates" or weekends with the other spouses alone.

 

Second you are going to have to really think this one out, you might not want to end it with the other couple, but you have to think whats best long term and not whats best for your penis. We had to do this once, and my penis still misses her quite a bit, odds are I will think of them at least once a week and we killed that relationship (well they killed it, we just put it out of its misery) four years ago. Don't think with your dick, your dick is very short sighted. Think whats best for your relationship LONG term, and if they are really your friends, about their relationship as well.

 

People don't want to do surgery, but its often for the best. Your relationship with them may need surgery.

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Whatever happens it comes down to it has to be something that works for all 4 of you. Right now, you've got something that seems to be working (maybe) for two of you. I agree with above comments that you'd all be better off if you part ways and allow their relationship to heal and you guys move on and find other couples. I realize it will be hard at first because there are feelings there, you'll need to really be there for your wife to get through it.

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It's perfectly normal and healthy to get feelings for other people. In the lifestyle, it is an especially sharp double-edged sword. If all four of you were happy, great and more power to ya! However, at least two out of the four are not satisfied, with his wife being very upset about the situation. HUGE red flag. His heat may dissipate once the "new" wears off (1-24 months) but it may not. In either case, someone is hurting NOW and this needs to be addressed by all four of you together. If the four of you can't work out a solution, then you may have to take point and decide what to do. Lives can be broken either way. Marriages can be wind up broken either way. The situation, like any involving emotions, must be handled with tact and grace. If that fails, then tough love is the only option left. That's the philosophical background. Specifically, if you guys can't work it out together, then I suggest you not see each other but one weekend a month for several months, then meet up again just to discuss where y'all stand then. Emotions are fine, if you want them. Some people avoid emotional involvement in the lifestyle just because they don't want this kind of mess.

My guess is you are not as emotionally involved as they are, and that is fine. It happens or it doesn't.

Bottom line: someone is hurting now and this needs to be fixed. When that happens, you can't go along just to get along.

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In my simple opinion, you and your wife are causing an issue in their marriage. Take everything else away and just focus on that one point. Despite how any of you feel about each other or them, the moment you two became aware there was something amiss, you should have walked away.

 

Delaying only makes it harder for them and harder for you but you have to let them repair their relationship and honestly, I don't think we could ever see them again sexually, maybe even socially.

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"Thank you all who have responded with some thoughts and view points which are interesting. Well all except Junglecouple that may have came on a little strong "... wanting to reach through the monitor and shake someone".

 

Too bad you think that was " tough".. if you think that's "strong", wait till you hear what a divorce atty has to say.. That's sweet compared to how it CAN go..

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What you describe could be word for word what happened with our first swing relationship including all the friend and family ties. Even though the two of them fought their feelings and emotions it became hell for them because they had to censor every sentence or action neither one could just relax and be themselves. It eventually became such an issue that we stopped swinging with them and when that didn't work stayed away for a year before trying to get back together and be friends. It didn't work because his emotions kept resurfacing and the ultimate solution was to drop them period.

 

That was the end of a 10 year friendship and I can't even begin to tell you how much I miss them but it was the only way.

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Just to clearfy Junglecouple there will be no divorce atty etc. in our marriage. We are both committed to making our marriage work. Just to further clearfy nothing in my post said anything about me thinking what you wrote was "tough". I just said you came on a "little strong" by wanting to shake some one through the monitor. :lol: Actually I thought that was a bit of a humorous responce. So you can take a deep breath and chill a bit. No offense taken. Original intent of the post was not so much about me and my wife as it was how to deal with this other couple and their issue. Please see the next to last line of the origianl post and I asked the question weather it is "possible to go back to a lesser relationship with a couple once it may have become to intesnse between two in the party or would that just end the friendship" (which both in the other couple claim they do not want) I am only looking for a way to take out a little of the intensity of the the relationship so we can all focus more clearly on making both of our marriages the best they can be. Ultimately each couple is responsible for their own marriage and we know that, but at the same time we would feel really bad if something were to happen to them and their marriage which may or may not been caused indirectly by how we handled things. My wife and I do not feel good about being a part of their hurting and hope they can get the romance back in their marriage, but ultimately we know they will have to be the ones to work through it and knowing them they probably will after all they have been married for 36 years and have had worse problems than this.

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Thanks for writing and sharing your experience Gordo. It is helpful to know that others have been in a similar situation. It is to bad you are so far away, you sound like a couple that would be fun to get to know that really has it together. All the best to you guys

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Just to clearfy Junglecouple there will be no divorce atty etc. in our marriage. We are both committed to making our marriage work. Just to further clearfy nothing in my post said anything about me thinking what you wrote was "tough". I just said you came on a "little strong" by wanting to shake some one through the monitor. :lol: Actually I thought that was a bit of a humorous responce. So you can take a deep breath and chill a bit. No offense taken. Original intent of the post was not so much about me and my wife as it was how to deal with this other couple and their issue. Please see the next to last line of the origianl post and I asked the question weather it is "possible to go back to a lesser relationship with a couple once it may have become to intesnse between two in the party or would that just end the friendship" (which both in the other couple claim they do not want) I am only looking for a way to take out a little of the intensity of the the relationship so we can all focus more clearly on making both of our marriages the best they can be. Ultimately each couple is responsible for their own marriage and we know that, but at the same time we would feel really bad if something were to happen to them and their marriage which may or may not been caused indirectly by how we handled things. My wife and I do not feel good about being a part of their hurting and hope they can get the romance back in their marriage, but ultimately we know they will have to be the ones to work through it and knowing them they probably will after all they have been married for 36 years and have had worse problems than this.

 

I didn't mean to sound a "little strong". I only have what you wrote as a background.. point 1: HE is in love with YOUR wife (your words) #2: she feels strongly for him. #3: HIS wife is not happy... just curious how you meant to sound.. cause it came across as a story of doom. Didn't mean to rattle your cage, just addressed the points you brought to the table.. Good luck with this..

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I didn't mean to sound a "little strong". I only have what you wrote as a background.. point 1: HE is in love with YOUR wife #2: she feels strongly for him. #3: HIS wife is not happy... just curious how you meant to sound.. cause it came across as a story of doom. Didn't mean to rattle your cage, just addressed the points you brought to the table.. Good luck with this..

 

No problem Junglecouple. Thanks for writing. Just a little misunderstanding in the post. We are good

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I wish I could fully comment on your situation, but I'm known, and the swinger gossip mill being what it is....

 

Look at my SLS profile, it has a description of our situation. We don't have any problems with this as it stands now. I'm the only man the other wife ever plays with, though she does do fmf with her husband. The other three of us still play with others, though I'm a lot more selective these days, and sometimes I'm in a mood where nobody but her will do. I love the sex that comes from active lifestyle participation, but most swingers just piss me off when I have to interact with them in any way other than fucking. Actually, so do most people.

 

You've been at this a lot longer than I have. Maybe the solution to your problem is the opposite of what everyone else advised, go full poly with them. In for a penny, in for a pound.

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It seems to me that you don't want to end things with this couple and are finding excuses to stay with them. If the other wife is suffering cause of the involvement of the husband being in love with your wife then the only right solution is to let them go. Their marriage is suffering and the wife is the one who is being hurt the most. Also, seems like the other husband has WAY too much control over you and your wife. You and your wife need to take some serious time off from this couple and let them sort things out on their own. Do it now before the husband becomes some sort of weirdo and tries to take your wife.

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There's something about my situation that provides an additional guardrail. He and I are sometimes alone together with loaded guns. That's called trust. Everything in the relationship had better be 100% kosher when you do that.

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Well this is certainly a situation that I think a lot of people in the LS think about, but not necessarily enough to the point where they think it will happen to them. Bottom line is you can't un-spill the milk....

 

Whatever being "in love" means for anyone, swinging is simply having sex with people other than your spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend. Period. It's just sex. Now that doesn't mean you won't fall for a particular person on some level and to some degree. However, anyone who believes that is "love" is, I think, naive. You and the other couple, the latter most importantly, needs to reexamine their relationship to each other and why they are swinging. You guys appear to be on the same page, and you appear to know that even though your wife has developed a loving relationship with the other guy, you seem confident that she loves you as well as that YOU are her primary. This other guy seems to have gone off the rails a little bit.

 

Mr. CoupleforXXXfun, you stated: " My feeling is I wish we could see other couples once in a while with out causing a lot of drama from either of this other couple...."

 

What in heaven's name is stopping you from doing this? You don't owe these people anything. Sure, there's no need to be harsh about it, but they need to understand your wishes and perhaps you haven't been too forthright with your own needs in this situation? This cannot go on like this, and as someone else remarked, "this will not end well." And particularly if the other two get jealous even at the mention of you guys seeing other people...Jealousy and swinging/open relationships or whatever they are called this week DO NOT MIX !! And if feelings of jealousy do arise, which is normal depending on the situation, they need to be handled in a mature way. Swinging isn't for the faint hearted as I'm sure you are aware!

 

If you ever needed an example of a red flag, this would be it. I don't envy your situation. I've thought about just such a scenario and how it might be handled. But what I do know is that some people in this LS do tend to glom onto others sometimes in an unrealistic fashion. It sounds like you guys are nice people and likely now feel a sense of obligation toward the other couple. But hey, sometimes you just have to put yourself first. It also sounds like the other couple might be more leaning toward polyamory if they feel that strongly in this situation....I hope it works out for you and that everyone comes out relatively unscathed :)

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Having been in a similar situation where two couples became one and with family connections, find others to play with, then after a few reflect on your connections with them. We started in the LS to have fun and explore and we lost that by being exclusive to just one couple.

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