How do you make sure that your playmates are disease free?

[Lonestarcouple]

We are new to the forum and will soon enter the lifestyle. I'm sure the following question has been discussed before but we have not read it. Ok, here goes... I guess everyone worries about picking another couple who is free of disease, but how do you do that and what tips can you give other than they look healthy? It is not a big concern but one we feel we should deal with at the start of our fun swinging days. Thanks. I hope this is an ok question.

[naughty A]

hello and Welcome...

you should post an introduction so we can learn more about you and have the opportunity to welcome you to the board.

...

yes this question has been asked before... check out the STD and Sex Questions Forum... everyone has an opinion on this particular subject....and not all those people agree...

STD/Sex Questions

Hopefully you will find some of the answers here... if not...
There are always helpful people around here happy to answer any question... ask away...

Naughty A.

[Elusive BiFem]

Welcome, Lonestarcouple! More members from the Great State of Texas!

naughty a sent you in the right direction with her link on STD/Sex Questions.

Swinging really isn't that different than any other sexual experience in terms of determining if people are free of disease. Bottom line, you never can be 100% positive. The best you can do is spend some time getting to know your partners and hope they are forthcoming regarding their own personal protection, i.e., condom usage, limited partners, etc., and that they have taken some personal responsiblity in terms of STD testing. But even the tests are not fool-proof. Educate yourselves on all the pros and cons and make your decisions based upon your findings.

naught was also correct about everyone having an opinion and not all agreeing. But the disagreements do lead all of us to think of different things in different ways.

Again, we're glad to have you with us and look forward to hearing more about and from ya'll. - EBF

[ciscosv]

Hi! Welcome to swingersboard.

My wife and I have these concerns too. I think to some degree we all have. It is always nice to asume everyone is disease free, but how do we really know? It really comes down to trusting the person or persons you two are with. There are barriers at our disposal which reduce the risk of transmission.

Good luck and have fun!

[PaulKing]

This article may be of interest: -



Is There Evidence AIDS is Sexually Transmitted?

According to Dr. David Rasnick, the facts don't support the hypothesis. Check out his letter from the British Medical Journal
online:

Sex Has Nothing to Do With AIDS

David Rasnick, Visiting Scientist, UC Berkeley
rasnick@mindspring.com
January 20, 2003

I challenge [doctors] to come up with the names, even one will do, of the persons documented to have shown that AIDS or HIV is
sexually transmitted. I know of no such study.

In fact, the scientific, medical literature is full of evidence that neither AIDS nor HIV is sexually transmitted. It is only assumed that
they are.

The results of the world's best scientific study that attempted to measure the efficiency of heterosexual transmission of antibodies to
HIV was conducted by Nancy Padian and her colleagues (Padian NS, et al. 1997:
Heterosexual transmission of human immunodeficiency virus in northern California: results from a ten-year study. Am J Epidemiol
146: 350-7).

The most striking result of the ten-year study is that Padian et al. did not observe any HIV-negative sex partners becoming
HIV-positive from years of
unprotected sexual intercourse with their HIV-positive partners. I repeat?NOT ONE HIV-negative sex partner became positive
during the 10- year study. Therefore, the observed transmission efficiency was ZERO.

However, to avoid reporting a zero efficiency for the sexual transmission of HIV, Padian and colleagues assumed that the
HIV-positive sex partners in their study must have become positive through sexual intercourse before
entering the study. Using that assumption, they estimated that an HIV-negative woman would have to have sexual intercourse 1,000
times with HIV-positive men before becoming HIV-positive herself. Even more astounding,
HIV-negative men would have to have 8000 sexual contacts before becoming HIV-positive.

Virtually identical figures have been reported by others (Gisselquist, D., et al., HIV infections in sub- Saharan Africa not explained
by sexual or vertical transmission. Int J STD AIDS, 2002. 13: p. 657-666; Jacquez, J.A.,
et al., Role of the primary infection in epidemics of HIV infection in gay cohorts. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr, 1994. 7: p.
1169-1184).

Given these figures and that the US Centers for Disease Control estimates that one million Americans have antibodies to HIV raises
an enormous problem for sexually transmitted HIV. Since there are around 280 million men and women in the USA, that means
that on average an HIV-negative woman would have to have random sexual intercourse 140,000 times?and a man eight times
that number?in order to become HIV-positive (assuming equal distribution of HIV between the sexes).

Below are additional examples in the literature that neither AIDS nor HIV is sexually transmitted.

- None of the husbands of HIV positive women became antibody positive to HIV over a three-year period. (Lancet ii: 581 (1985),
Stewart et al.}

- No transmission of HIV was observed between couples in which all of the women were HIV positive and in which at least 100
sexual contacts occurred. (JAMA 259: 3037 (1988), Padian et al.)

- After a mean of 3-1/2 years of unprotected intercourse, with an average of 50 sexual encounters per year, only one hemophiliac
wife became HIV positive. (American Journal of Medicine 85: 472 (1988), Kim et al.)

- No transmission of T-cell abnormalities from hemophiliacs with AIDS to their spouses. (JAMA 251: 1450 (1984), Kreiss et al.)

- "The number of American and European heterosexuals who have had sexual relations with a prostitute, who have no other
admitted risk factors (such as drug abuse), and who have subsequently developed antibody to HIV can be
counted on the fingers of one hand. Sex with a prostitute is not even listed as a risk category by the American CDC." (Rethinking
AIDS, Root-Bernstein, 1993)

- "Non-drug abusing prostitutes have no higher risk of AIDS than other women." (AIDS: the second decade, report from the
National Academy of Sciences USA, 1990)

The same is true for prostitutes in Germany, Zurich, Vienna, London, Paris, Pardenone (Italy), and Athens. (Klinische
Wochenschrift 65: 287 (1987), Luthy et al.; Wiener Klinische Wochenschrift 98: 697 (1986), Kopp &
Dangl-Erlach; Lancet ii: 1424 (1985), Brenky-Fandeux & Fribourg-Blanc; British Medical Journal 297: 1585 (1988), Day et al.;
Scand J Infect Dis 21: 353 (1988), Hyams et al.)

[JustAskJulie]

When it comes down to it, disease is something that crosses everyone's mind. Unfortunately, there is no way to ensure that anyone is 100% disease free. There really isn't any way to even ensure that YOU personally are. It just becomes a question of risk and whether or not it's a risk you are willing to take.

I find it interesting that it seems that those contemplating swinging worry much more about the risk of disease than singles do in general.

[PaulKing]

A really good point Julie. In view of twenty years with zero "AIDS' in the Swing Community it makes little sense.


Very best wishes,

Paul

[DevilzAdvokit]

It is impossible to tell who is packing microbes and who isnt. Treat everyone as if they are because they could be. All of the badboys that are not killed by broad spectrum antibiotics have long dormancy/latency periods and the individuals who carry them may not even know it. Some know it but are epidemiologically ignorant about their particular antigen and may fail to mention it because they do not think it's a risk at that given time. Some are in denial themselves about it.Some people dont care who they infect. So always protect yourself and make sure that if you touch someone that they are worth a possible exposure.
Itl

[wrnakedru]

Originally posted by PaulKing A really good point Julie. In view of twenty years with zero "AIDS' in the Swing Community it makes little sense. Very best wishes,Paul

I am quoting this post rather than your prior one on this thread in the interest of brevity [of the quote length]. But I would like to address both posts.

Regarding your first post: it was refreshing to see a reference to something from this calendar year and may I point out your posts and this quoted person have much in common. The most recent study referred to by this person was 2002 - certainly a time period that would at first glance appear current and therefore possibly relevant. But oops - gosh, that study was regarding AIDS in Africa [reportedly epidemic in purportion, if memory serves]. And this is the primary basis for a lack of link between sex and AIDS.

Now, I'm no statistician and certainly not a medical professional. But logic and common sense alone are enough to figure once a disease is epidemic - out of control - infecting and affecting large percentages of the population - studies about root causes and transmissions are way past reliable reporting. Certainly the infants being born with the disease haven't much sexual experience.

So is the inference now that existence as one of the undereducated masses living in sub-poverty conditions, suffering from nutrition levels ranging from poor to malnourished causes AIDS?

OR

Is there a viable contingent of swingers in Africa living in conditions similar to mid-Americans so that this study should be viewed as a source of relevant information and a comfort to us all?

The numerous remaining studies cited by your source range from 6 to 20 years old - as are the studies you have cited in your posts. [perhaps some of the same studies?]

As I said, I'm no expert - however, my sister [who is a microchemist and heads up studies for the drug company who employs her] tells me that a study over two years old is considered of no value - as it is outdated, and ergo - irrelevant.

As to your shorter post, quoted above: You do not cite your basis for such a broad, sweeping, all-inclusive remark. For one who believes [as you have said you do] that definitive statements mean nothing without substantiation - I find your remark puzzling.

I knew a couple many years ago who were very active swingers. She is now dead - of AIDS. And as of the last information I received, he is "not well" either.

Perhaps once a person becomes too ill, and their time and energies are consumed by the ravages of their illness - they tend to drop out of the social scene. Are they also then taken out of your "list of all swingers" so that when they pass - - you are still able to make that [quoted] generalized statement - and actually believe you are telling the truth? Where did such a remark come from?

Your inaccuracy in making such a statement is enough to discredit anything else you have said, especially when viewed in conjunction with the outdated studies you cite.

Whether you seek converts to your thesis or merely are attempting to "educate", you need to move into this time period and draw information from valid, current studies.