Bareback Rule of Thumb

[Flori_DAMAN]

[

You can call this lifestyle all kinds of different things and shade it different ways. You can have friends or not even know their names or just hate their guts. The bottom line is you want to have sex/fuck/blow a load/orgasm/penetration or anything else you want to call it. Everything else leads up to the sex act.

I know I covered alot of different subjects here but I feel they all sort of intertwine and maybe even a little contention. [/B]

WOah....every thing else? What is the bottom line again? Im horribly confused.

A little contention? What do you mean?

I read your post several times and just can't get a grip on it.

John

[JacobSky]

Originally Posted by Alura

I think you've pretty much nailed it here, Misty. I'm sure we could have a lot more experiences if we were willing to go to clubs and have sex with strangers. The risks are too big, in our opinion, and probably not diminished enough with the use of condoms.

We can also reduce our risks by not playing with bisexual males or any single males for that matter. There are lots of reasons for this policy other than STDs.

Judging from the article linked by Tanman, we could also reduce our risk by not playing with anyone from New York, California or Florida.

We'll stick with married couples, preferably Hick Okies, who, like ourselves, "don't get around much anymore..."

Mr. Alura

I really liked this post! Good taste and sense.

[Alura]

Thank you, JacobSky! What a nice compliment!

Mr. Alura

[MrNorthIndyCpl]

Wow. What a conversation. Very interesting read. Here is my thought:

Overall, I guess we each do what makes us and our partner(s) comfortable and happy. Personally I think condoms suck. But so does dying.

Wow! I brought all kinds of value to this discussion....

[Jeok]

Boy, be out of touch a few years & this is the new reality. Back in the 70s, 80s, & even to mid 90s, everyone we knew went bareback. Women knew when their periods arrived, no one shaved, just trimmed to be sexier; we used land mail, polaroids, telephone conversations, really checked one another out before getting it on. Men actually pulled out-we were ignorant of accidents-before ejaculation; and, of course, there was no HIV-AIDS scare. But, we had the "clap", syphlis, all kinds of STDs that were irritating, if not equally deadly; there was the douche, before & after-fun in itself, if an assistant. Oh Well, I still would like to return to the lifestyle & would do whatever makes those with whom I share so they could be relaxed & comfortable, which is the essence of FUN. Jeok-ism

[jessicat78]

Depends on who we are swinging with.

[Lascivious L&L]

The question that seems to be ignored here is the actual safety factor of condoms? The feeling I have from reading this thread is that this discussion is more about the feeling of safety using condoms as "safe" sex.

Virtually all here agree that condoms reduce the feel and intimacy of sex, because virtually all have bareback sex with their spouses, demonstrating that bareback sex is more intimate and pleasureable.

So "safe" swinging is about accepting less than the best. Some here simply don't see the point in swinging if you are going to accept less than the best. If you have great sex with your partner, is variety so important that you'll accept second best just to swing?

Just How much safety is involved in that trade off? How much is gained through the use of condoms? Here are our basic assumptions:

1. HIV is the bad boy. Yet among swingers HIV prevalence is very small. There is simply no risk of HIV if those swinging are HIV free. And all but a tiny percentage of swingers are HIV free. If you actually did have intercourse with an HIV infected person, what are the risks of transmission? Studies I've seen demonstrate it is not 100% or 50% or 10%. 1 in 200 is the best figure I've found. That's half a percent. So the actual risk of HIV transmission is half a percent risk of a very small risk of actually meeting an HIV infected swinger.

2. Herpes: The CDC studies say 58% of adults have herpes simplex 1, oral herpes, and 20% have herpes simplex 2, or gential herpes. Either one can be transmitted orally or genitally. Some adults have both. Understand what this means...most adults have herpes. Not some, not a minority, but most. That means you if you're an adult. Condoms do not effectively prevent herpes because sucking a cock, kissing, and skin to skin contact can transmit it. Condoms only cover a small area of skin.

3. HPV is similar to herpes but even more difficult to test for effectively. Most researchers assume most sexually active adults have at least one variety of HPV. That means we swingers. We have it. Again, condoms are not very effective in preventing transmission.

Condoms do make people FEEL safer. But their efficacy does not match that feeling of safety many get from condoms.

[Pleaseher6]

I think it depends on ones comfort level whether to go bare or not.

First and foremost if I ever thought that someone I was considering to have sex might have any STD...I would run. I avoid anyone who is an illicit drug user. Sex whether "gloved" or not is not a consideration in that case.

I tend to like being with Married Couples in their late thirties to early fifties, where the husband is straight, and have children. They have no reason to lie about birth control and as parents are concerned about the welfare of their children.

I make it a point to tell women who I am with that I am not "Surgically Safe". I usually ask whether they are Surgically Safe or if on Birth Control, and what they use for protection. Keep in mind that condoms have a 5% failure rate with women in their childbearing years. Also keep in mind that women who are 45 and older, suffer primary infertility with only 10% getting pregnant after a year of trying. The rate of miscairraige goes up exponentially for women in their forties and older.

On one occaision I went bareback with a good looking wife in her late thirties using only Natural Family Planning after she "forgot" her diaphram at home with her husbands approval. I think its important to understand that they had three children together, and successfully used NFP together for nine years after their youngest was born without even a late period. We went bare twice in one night, I did not pull out. That night everyone had a great time. Importantly she did not get pregnant.

[Aching]

Our thinking is that sex with condoms is like masturbating into a bag. Just not a lot of fun, so why bother?

But, we're not stupid either. Therefore, we're not going to a club, or some swing resort, or on a swing only cruise and have indiscriminate sex with anyone with whom we have a mutual attraction.

We haven't even "done it" yet, with anyone, but would if we found the right couple. For us, that will be a "long time" (10+ years) couple that is still in love with each other, and that is looking for the same things we are--the "thrill" of enjoying sex with another person, and the equally exciting "thrill" of discussing it later as we have "reclaiming" sex with each other.

Since we're brand new at this, we think the perfect fit would be someone that has been in the lifestyle and is comfortable with talking to us "newbies." And we know they will have played with other couples, but we will need to know that they have limited their exposure to a close group of like people that they trust. We believe there are those types out there--trusting couples with limited partners, and some years of experience without worry about disease.

We both want to feel free to completely relax and enjoy the experience in all it's natural beauty and with all it's natural feeling.

Now if we can just find someone to "break us in".....

[Coupleerotic22]

I will say this, neither of us like using condoms but we like AIDS/HEP et al even less, so we use them. I am in constant search for a condom that feels natural, some are better than others, but at times it seem tantamount to looking for the fountain of youth.

That said I have been extremely surprised at the number of people that are ambivalent to condom use once the sparks start flying. On more than one occasion I have heard "don't worry about it," or "you don't need to wear one," when I make a break for the condom box. I just smile and suit up unless I know them WELL.

[MrsPandMe]

Admittedly I have jumped into the middle of this thread, but I think I get the gist of it. Couple of points, here.

Condoms are like seat belts in airplanes. If you have a rough landing they can help keep you from breaking a bone. If you fly into the ground at 500 miles per hour all it will do is keep the bits of you and the bits of your seat in closer proximity to one another. Now considering how often the former happens in relation to the latter, condoms have some merit to preventing "pedestrian" infections, say like chlamydia. They are also very good at stopping the bad boy of STD's, HIV, but as said previously, HIV in the swinging community is considerably small. You're more likely to die hitting your head on the wall whilst vigorously fucking. They also do a reasonable job stopping HPV, but chances are exceedingly high you already have it so that point is probably moot.

Anyway, a couple of corrections. HPV is NOT like HSV, except to say they are both viruses. HSV will go away when you do. HPV will run its course in about 2 years. Then you'll catch it again. Rinse, repeat.

And speaking of HSV, don't discount the value of condom use in the prevention of asymptomatic shedding of HSV-2.

A little light reading about our friend the Herpes virus.

Herpes and Shingles - HSV1, HSV2, Varicella-Zoster Virus - Life Extension Health Concern

Though I know it's not the thrust of this thread, one must also consider the psychological impact of condom use. Using the aforementioned seat belt analogy, regardless of the effectiveness of the seat belt, the act of wearing it makes flying "easier", and we men all know if your mind isn't in the game, your dick won't be either. Many swingers also use condoms as a sort of "physical psychological" barrier to separate their playmates from their spouse, especially swingers who are new.

Mr. P.

[Just Passing By]

Just to be different : I didn't really mind the actual use of condoms for intercourse.. Factor 1 was that it was mentally link to the anticipation of varity. Factor two is slight difference in sensation either made no particular difference , or sometimes it worked out that I could keep going extra long time. The downside is the having to break the natural rythm of thing to install and remove.

Not withstanding those threats which are either very unlikley, or already prevailent in the general population, Chlamydia, syph, antibiotic resistant gohnorea, hep, and pregnancy are better avoided than not.

I have a metaphor even better suited than the airplane and seatbelt, but I don't think it is ready for primetime.

[mde 4764]

Originally Posted by thump29

Well we only not use a condom if we know the person we are with and if it is somebody we totally trust. Condoms is a rule until we know the person for a while.

We have only went bareback once so far but soon it will happen again and I am looking forward to it. We do get tested every 6 months and do not make it a habit of going without one.

I think you're deluding yourself if you think you really know somebody.

[mde 4764]

Originally Posted by dpdarling

i never insist on bareback, but i do prefer it. i chatted with a guy the other day, he seemed obsessed with the aids thing, ranting about the dangers, multiple sex partners, and swinging in general. i placed him on my ignore list. if a partner is that worried about infection, he should think about another type of entertainment.

I certainly agree with finding another type of entertainment if you are that worried. When I was part of a couple, we decided that if we felt we needed to use a condom with a couple in order to feel safe with them, we didn't need to be playing with them at all. We never had a problem in the many years we played.

[Pleaseher6]

Originally Posted by mde 4764

I certainly agree with finding another type of entertainment if you are that worried. When I was part of a couple, we decided that if we felt we needed to use a condom with a couple in order to feel safe with them, we didn't need to be playing with them at all. We never had a problem in the many years we played.

Exactly!!!