bareback gangbang with strangers?

[lovers]

Picture this scene:

My wife and went to a house party on the weekend where upstairs there were private rooms for 1 on 1 action and in the basement there was a group room. In the group room a woman in her late 40's or early 50's is literally taking on all the guys that her husband can get for her. Here's the catch, the only way you can do her is BAREBACK and she wants as many guys to cum in her pussy as possible. Much to my suprise, she had no shortage of guys willing to do this. Keep in mind that this was not a closed group of swingers, but a party open to any and all who wanted to attend.

Now I will admit that my wife and I have talked about doing something like this as she really gets off on having guys cum inisde her, but we haven't because of the health risks (basically, you could never find enough d/d free guys who could prove it to ever attempt something like this).

What we'd like to know your opinions on are the following:

1. Why would any couple take a risk like this in this sort of environment?
2. Why would any guy go for this sort of thing?
3. Are we just over-reacting to this?

Thanks in advance.

[PaulKing]

The 'risk' which is very small is no greater without a condom. You probably have not read the condom threads so I will post this summary of why condoms are NO protection.

Condoms are VERY toxic so not using them could be considered 'safe sex'.

Hope this helps..

Paul


THE SPERM VS. THE AIDS VIRUS

A paper in the February 1992 issue of Applied and Environmental Microbiology reports that filtration techniques show the HIV-1 virus to be 0.1 micron (4 millionths of an inch) in diameter. It is three times smaller than the herpes virus, 60 times smaller than the syphilis
spirochete, and 50 to 450 times smaller than sperm. (8)

THE FLAWED CONDOM

Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) researchers, using powerful electron microscopes, have found that new latex, from which
condoms are fabricated, contains "maximum inherent flaw[s]" (that is, holes) 70 microns in diameter. (9)

These holes are 700 times larger than the HIV-1 virus. There are pores in latex, and some of the pores are large enough to pass sperm-sized particles. Carey, et al., observed leakage of HIV-sized particles through 33%+ of the latex condoms tested. In addition, as Gordon points out in his review, the testing procedures for condoms are less than desirable. United States condom manufacturers are allowed 0.4% leaky condoms (AQL). Gordon states, "The fluctuations in sampling permits many batches not meeting AQL to be sold." In the United
States, 12% of domestic and 21% of imported batches of condoms have failed to meet the 0.4% AQL. (10)

CONDOMS FAIL TESTING

In a 1988 study sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, Bruce Voeller of the Mariposa Foundation in Topanga, California, a non-profit organization dedicated to preventing the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, ranked 31 brands of latex condoms according to how well they met the U.S. and international quality assurance standards designed to ensure that condoms provide an effective
barrier against human sperm.

"Many of the condoms now on the market would not get FDA approval if they were required to meet today’s standards," says
Voeller. Although all condoms sold in the U.S.are supposed to pass quality assurance tests, those marketed before 1976 need not meet the more stringent requirements necessary to win FDA marketing approval. (11)

Dr. Collart reports that "Gotszche and Hording in their study of in vivo [real life] condom failure rates concluded ‘Condoms to
prevent HIV transmission do not imply truly safe sex.’ In addition Steiner, et al., observed newer lots of condoms had actual breakage rates of 3.5-8.8%, while actual breakage rates for older lots ranged from 9.8-18.6%. In a study conducted by Ahmed, et al., 29%-42% of those who had used condoms experienced at least one breakage. In a survey conducted by the University of Manchester, 52% of those who had
obtained condoms from their family planning clinic had one or more either burst or slip off in the 3 months before the survey. In
studies by Albert, et al., and by Wright, et al., 36% and 38% of their respondents reported condom failures respectively." (12)

CONDOM + SPERMICIDE

Some have advocated the use of spermicide containing nonoxynol-9 in the prevention of HIV infection. However, the protective effects of nonoxynol-9 have not been established in vivo for any of the viral STDs. Some reports suggest that spermicides (including nonoxynol-9) may be associated with irritation and ulceration of genital and rectal epithelia, side-effects that may actually facilitate HIV infection.
In a study with Nairobi prostitutes, a higher rate of new HIV infections was found among women using nonoxynol-9 than among those not using it. Additionally, in a study of rhesus monkeys who were exposed to a high dose of simian immunodeficiency virus following vaginally inserted nonoxynol-9 foam, half the monkeys developed an infection. (13, 14, 15, 16)

CONDOM CLIMATE CONTROL

Condoms are sensitive to heat and cold, yet they are not normally transported in climate-controlled vehicles. Vesey, in his study ofcondoms,checked 72,000 trucks and has actual photographs of eggs frying in the backs of trucks used for condom distribution.

Partly due to Vesey’s study, Burlington County, NJ, banned the distribution of condoms at the county’s AIDS counselling center, because they concluded that the risk of liability for condom failures was too great. (17)

RISKY BUSINESS

The United States Public Health Service states that sexual relations, even with a condom, with a person who is
HIV-positive is so risky that alternative methods of expressing physical intimacy should be considered. Additionally, Public Health Services warns that the rate of HIV transmission in anal intercourse is so high that the practice should be avoided. (27)

PANACEA OR PLACEBO?

In conclusion, Herbert Ratner, M.D., offers the best summary of all when he says,

Actually, the major accomplishment of the condom campaign to prevent AIDS is to impress the promoters, politicians and the public at large that something is being done; and although well-intentioned, it offers more of a placebo than a panacea.

Publicizing the condom to the four winds is, for the most part, the bravura of a puritan who is trying to prove to the world
that he is not a puritan. To concentrate on the mechanical aspects of the sex act to the exclusion of the emotional and psychological aspects (which the condom campaign ignores) is the essence of Puritanism. The only difference between the new and the old is that whereas the traditional puritans were alleged to believe that sex was something to be isolated and repressed, neo-puritans accept sex as something to be isolated and exercised. (28)

Reviewed by Joel McIlhaney, M.D., of the Medical Institute for Sexual Health



NOTES

1.Weller, Susan C., "A Meta-Analysis of Condom Effectiveness in Reducing Sexually Transmitted HIV," Social Science and
Medicine, Vol. 36, #12, June 1993, pp. 1635-1644.

2.Smith, Richard W., The Condom: Is It Really Safe Sex? (unpublished, October 1990) pp. 8-9.

3.Collart, David G., M.D., Condom Failure for Protection From Sexual Transmission of the HIV: A Review of the Medical
Literature, Feb. 16 1993.

4.Zenilman, Jonathan, et al., "Condom Use to Prevent Incident STDs: The Validity of Self-Reported Condom Use," Sexually
Transmitted Diseases, Jan.-Feb. 1995, pp.15-21;

5.Ravenel S. duBose, M.D., "Comments and Observations," Aug. 5, 1995.

6.Joel McIlhaney, Jr., M.D., "Chlamydia Trachomatis; The Most Common Bacterial Sexually Transmitted Disease in the United
States," Medical Institute for Sexual Health Sexual Health Update, Vol. 3, #3, Fall, 1995.
7.Friedman and Trivelli, "Condom Availability for Youth: A High Risk Alternative," Pediatrics, 2/97, p. 285.

8.Lytle, C. D., et al., "Filtration Sizes of Human Immunodeficiency Virus Type 1 and Surrogate Viruses Used to Test Barrier
Materials," Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Vol. 58, #2, Feb. 1992.

9."Anomalous Fatigue Behavior in Polysoprene," Rubber Chemistry and Technology, Vol. 62, #4, Sep.-Oct. 1989.

10.Collart, David G., M.D., loc. cit.

11.Nowak, Rachel, "Research Reveals Condom Conundrums," The Journal of NIH Research, Vol. 5, Jan. 1993, pp. 32, 33.

12.Collart, David G., M.D., op. cit.

13.Bird, K.D., AIDS, Vol. 5, pp. 791-796, 1991.

14.Voeller, B., AIDS, Vol. 6, pp. 341-342, 1992.

15.Kreiss, J.; Ruminjo, I.; Ngugi, E.; Roberts, P.; Ndinya-Achola, J.; and Plummer, F., 1989 V International Conference on AIDS,
Montreal.

16.Miller, C.J.; Alexander, N.J.; Sutjipto, S.; et al., J. Med. Primatol, Vol. 19, pp. 401-409, 1990.

17.Vesey, W.B., HLI Reports, Vol. 9, pp. 1-4, 1991.

18.April, K., and Schreiner, W., Schweiz. med. Wschr., Vol. 120, pp. 972-978, 1990.

19.Frosner, G.G., 1989, Infection, Vol. 17, pp. 1-3.

20.Fischl, M.A.; Dickinson, G.M.; Segsl, A.; Flanagan, S.; and Rodriguez, M.; Presentation THP. 92, III International Conference
on
AIDS in Washington D.C., 1-5 June, p. 178, 1987.

21.Klimes, I., et al., AIDS Care, Vol. 4, p. 151, 1992.

22.Detels, R.; English, P.; Visscher, B.R.; Jacobson, L.; Kingsley, L.A.; Chmiel, J.S.; Dudley, J.P.; Eldred, L.J.; and Ginzburg,
H.M.;Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes, Vol. 2, pp. 77-83, 1989.

23.Gordon, R., loc. cit.

24.Joffe, G.P.; Foxman, B.; Schmidt, A.J.; Farris, K.B.; Carter, R.J.; Neumann, S.; Tolo, K.-A.; and Walters, A.M.; 1992, Sexually
Transmitted Diseases, Vol. 19, pp. 272-278.

25.Cohen, D.A.; Dent, C.; MacKinnon, D.; and Hahn, G.; Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Vol. 19, pp. 245-251, 1992.

26.Frösner, G.G., loc. cit.

27.Byer, C.O., and Shainberg, L.W., Dimensions of Human Sexuality, Wm. C. Brown Publishers, 1991.

28.Ratner, Herbert, M.D., "Condoms and AIDS," ALL About Issues, Feb. 1989, p. 36.

[naughty A]

Originally posted by lovers

What we'd like to know your opinions on are the following:

1. Why would any couple take a risk like this in this sort of environment?
2. Why would any guy go for this sort of thing?
3. Are we just over-reacting to this?

Thanks in advance.

There has been a lot said about condoms lately

some will- some won't...

we wouldn't.

I don't think you are over reacting at all ... you should only accept the risks you are willing to take... if you aren't comfortable don't do it.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by lovers

1. Why would any couple take a risk like this in this sort of environment?
2. Why would any guy go for this sort of thing?
3. Are we just over-reacting to this?

I don't think you are over-reacting at all. While we choose to play 'bareback', there is no way on God's green earth that I would allow myself to be cummed in by people that I do not know. I don't know why anyone would take that risk, unless they were in a closed group. I can understand the fantasy, but not the insanity of just whomever.

[ciscosv]

We are not into that type of play. ESPECIALLY when you toss some single guys in there.

The fantasy of it kicks ass for us though!

1. Why would any couple take a risk like this in this sort of environment?

For fantasy fulfillment and pleasure.

2. Why would any guy go for this sort of thing?

It's sex. Also because boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.

3. Are we just over-reacting to this?

Hell No. What's good for them may not be good for you.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

now I'm not saying that this is the case but consider:

If this woman knew she was HIV+ and she didn't care whether she passed that on to others -- then she also wouldn't care whether any barrier was used at all.

That issue is always my first thought when I meet someone who seems too ready to not act safely with strangers...

That said, though the risks associated with unprotected sex can be high -- they are statistically no higher than driving your car or smoking and they are lower than some extreme sports.

[PaulKing]

"That said, though the risks associated with unprotected sex can be high -- they are statistically no higher than driving your car or smoking and they are lower than some extreme sports"

So true. Well said.

As Michael Fumento said: -

Author Michael Fumento, in his book The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS, offers substantial evidence that white, middle-class, non IV drugabuser heterosexuals are in less danger of contracting AIDS thru non-anal, sexual intercourse than they are of dying from shark attacks, being hit by lightning, or accidentally drowning in the bathtub. The
book is very well referenced and documented.

The book was reviewed by the Journal of the American Medical Assn as "the best single source available to enable heterosexual persons to assess their personal risk."

Very best wishes,

Paul

[BiloxiCouple]

I've brought this subject up before and it looks like a good place to bring it up again.

That couple that gave you so much concern. You are probably only one couple away from having sex with them.

Someone at that house party has had sex with them and you probably had sex with that person and not realize they had sex with the people you that were extreme. Did this make sense?

Maybe not at the house party but somewhere along the line you are only a couple away from actual sex with this person. Maybe one of the guys cumming in her has already cummed with ya'll?

Also I saw mention of a closed group? Who monitors this closed group? I am playing devil's advocate. Also evaluating risk. We don't ask for or give blood tests. We use common sense which doesn't mean much sometimes.

[PaulKing]

Great post. If AIDS was really an std then everyone in the Rock, Swinging and Porn Industry would be long gone. Lifestyles reports that in twenty years there has never been one case of 'AIDS' in their 100,000 membership. Not one.

Makes you think.

Thanks again for an outstanding post.

Best wishes,

Paul

[BiloxiCouple]

I would like to see a copy of that Lifestyles report and know how the obtained their facts and figures.

[PaulKing]

Try giving them a call. They are very friendly folks and I am sure they can help.

[Dani&Drew]

Originally posted by PaulKing
Great post. If AIDS was really an std then everyone in the Rock, Swinging and Porn Industry would be long gone. Lifestyles reports that in twenty years there has never been one case of 'AIDS' in their 100,000 membership. Not one.

Freddie Mercury?

[alabamafuntonig]

freddy mercury was a pronounced homosexual . he was not a porn star. his complications from aids could have been from drug use or anal sex with other men they still are not sure.

[Dani&Drew]

This board is too touchy lately

It was in reference to Paul's "Not one person in the rock world has had AIDS"

I'm just still so sad he's gone

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by DrewnDani
This board is too touchy lately

It was in reference to Paul's "Not one person in the rock world has had AIDS"

I agree the board is a tad too touch lately. Hopefully that is changing for the better.

But what Paul actually said was:

Lifestyles reports that in twenty years there has never been one case of 'AIDS' in their 100,000 membership. Not one.

I would have to assume that would be the 100,000 people registered with Lifestyles, not the entire movie or rock industry in general. There certainly has to be well over 1,000,000,000 in those two professions alone. Not even considering Europeans. That is how I read it anyway.