Society and Birth Control

[N8ture Girl]

With some of the recent threads on birth control, vasectomies and such, it has gotten me thinking about how birth control has evolved and society has directed the path it has taken. It’s always been women who have had to worry about birth control due to society deeming that this was way. With the exception of condoms, everything is designed for women. I ponder why there hasn’t been drugs developed for men? With the advances in drugs for just about everything, how difficult is it to drug men's little swimmers? Is it really that hard, or is there something else at play here...? Is there anyone on the board that works in the pharmaceutical industry that would know if the drug companies just don’t have the funding for men's BC or they just haven’t been able to develop such a drug? I almost would think that its not a priority as there are far more important ailments that would take priority..

It seems that it is acceptable in society that women take these drugs and who knows what its doing to our bodies and the environment (evidence shows that elements of the pill is ending up in the water supply), while men just sail along. I know for many women, the pill is a god send and has many positive effects (the thought of being able to know exactly when your period will be is a selling point for me!!), but how did we as a society come up with lets give women drugs for 20-30 years and not develop any thing for men? Also do men consider or think about what their wives are potentially putting in their body? This kinda goes back to the vasectomy saga in another thread, why not share the responsibility? Ladies are on the pill until decided there will be no more children, then lady goes off the pill and hubby gets fixed. No more drugs, a woman’s body can go back to normal, the man never knows the difference (meaning no side effects) and all is good.

I have some friends that are in this dilemma now. They have had three children and he has 3 from a previous marriage and they are done having kids. She wants desperately to get off the pill and wants hubby to get a vasectomy. He says, why? Kinda jokingly, and is really not taking her seriously which just annoys her. Is this pretty common in today's households (mainly late 30's and older)?

Another question to ponder is men ask, or just let their wives be on some form of drug for birth control and women accept it no problems, but when a woman asks a man to get a 30 minute, one time procedure they get all worked up about it. For you men that have been faced with this what were your first thoughts when you were asked?

Men, do you have any thoughts or concerns about your wife having to be on a drug to prevent pregnancy? Or have you just really never thought about it before?

Women, are you concerned about the long term effects of the method of BC you use? Do you feel that the benifits(benifits other than pregnancy protection) outway the negative?


Disclaimer: I am trying to generate a friendly discussion, not fight. I am not trying to persuade anyone into doing anything. I just want some insight and thoughts on the subject and to understand other's ways of thinking. If some of you women want to stay on the pill for ever than more power to you, it's your body. Men if you don’t want a vasectomy then don’t get one.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by N8ture Girl

I ponder why there hasn’t been drugs developed for men? With the advances in drugs for just about everything, how difficult is it to drug men's little swimmers? Is it really that hard, or is there something else at play here...?

Before a drug company is going to invest the time and money to develop a drug there has to be a market for it; they need to be certain someone is going to buy it. More than anything I think the reason there has not been a birth control pill for men is that few men would buy it.

The problem of an unwanted pregnancy is not a physical problem for a man; it doesn't happen to his body. For this reason he can more easily dissasociate himself from the issue. A man can walk away from the problem--or attempt to--and can get by with it. He can pay for her abortion if they decide this is the avenue to take. He can marry her and raise their child. He can not marry her and help support their child. But with every one of these choices a man typically will have less responsibilty or time involved in caring for a child. I think men think of preventing pregnancy as something that isn't their responsibility; it's the woman's responsibility, and I agree. Would I like to see men take more responsibility? Sure, but even if the men I dated told me they were taking the pill, I'd be taking the pill myself.

I also think men would see taking a pill that would inactivate their sperm as demasculating. There is an association between being potent and being virile.

I think men (especially younger males) wouldn't be as mindful about taking birth control as women are, and therefore the effectiveness would be decreased.

Men would probably be concerned that if their sperm was "fiddled with" it may cause permanent infertility and they would worry about not being able to conceive when they are ready to have children.

It seems that it is acceptable in society that women take these drugs and who knows what its doing to our bodies and the environment (evidence shows that elements of the pill is ending up in the water supply), while men just sail along.

The same concern could be put forth if men were on birth control pills. They pee, just as women do.


The only way I see a birth control pill being accepted by the majority of men--and profitable for drug companies--would be if it came packed with a low-dose Viagra-like drug.

Tell a guy he's going to be harder, last longer, and a more impressive lover and he'll buy it.

LM

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by N8ture Girl

Another question to ponder is men ask, or just let their wives be on some form of drug for birth control and women accept it no problems, but when a woman asks a man to get a 30 minute, one time procedure they get all worked up about it. For you men that have been faced with this what were your first thoughts when you were asked?

Being on the birth control pill was what I wanted and my husband had no objections since neither of us wanted children at the time. We didn't consider a vasectomy during those 15 years I was on the pill because we thought we might change our minds about having children. After 15 years passed, it was time to either start a family or do something permanent to prevent pregnancy. We decided we were happy without kids and MrLM had a vasectomy without hesitation since my continuing with the pill was not advised by my doctor.

Men, do you have any thoughts or concerns about your wife having to be on a drug to prevent pregnancy? Or have you just really never thought about it before?

Women, are you concerned about the long term effects of the method of BC you use? Do you feel that the benifits(benifits other than pregnancy protection) outway the negative?

Neither of us had safety concerns about me being on the pill. It wasn't until after I'd been on it so long that it was determined that women didn't have to take the strong dosage I had been on all those years; a lower dosage was just as effective and didn't carry the risks that were later discovered. So we didn't see the pill posing a threat to my health. (I was on the pill from 1970 through 1985.)

The benefits of the pill were definitely worth it. One of my greatest fears was becoming pregnant and how I would handle that if it happened. The pill rid me of this fear. I loved its high rate of protection against pregnancy and knowing when my period was going to start. I was so glad the pill was available to me at that time in my life.

LM

[IvoryTowers]

You raise some interesting points but I think there are two reasons why the male bc pill won't catch on.

First, it really is harder than you think to make a pill that works on men. Men create fresh sperm all the time and to chemically deactivate all of them all the time (without side effects that make sex impossible) is very tricky. Companies have been working on it with little success.

Secondly, as has already been pointed out, women are the ones who get pregnant, not men. As much as good guys wouldn't want to get a woman pregnant by mistake, it doesn't have the same level of anxiety for men as for women. How does that translate into the real world? First, think about how many women forget to take bc pills every day. Do you think men would be better at it? Second, would you believe a man who said "Don't worry, I'm on the pill?" Of course not! Women end up responsible for the birth control because if it goes wrong, they end up suffering. That's just biology and if I'm the one whose going to get pregnant, I want to be the one in control of stopping it!

However, in long term relationships I think the man should step forward to get snipped. The woman has dealt with birth control and possibly also with child bearing and he should take his turn! The only reason I was the one who got fixed is because Mr. Ivory is a good bit younger than me. If I died in a car crash tomorrow or next year, the chances that his second wife would still be in the wanting children phase would be very high (and he would not be opposed). But if Mr. Ivory was sure he would never want children, it would have been his operation, not mine.

[NotSorry]

Perhaps I came of age with especially thoughtful males (I did after all grow up in the upper middle class suburbs, and it was hammered onto us that teenage pregnancy was very very bad), but even as far back as my teenage years I remember discussing with other males how we wished there were male birth control pills.

Would the market for it be smaller than that for women? Yes. Would it still be a goldmine for whoever invented it? Absolutely. There would be an appreciable market for it as both a primary and secondary form of birth control.

Eventually I will get a vasectomy - I actually look forward to it since it will end the inconvenience of other birth control methods (at least within our marriage).

Mr NotSorry

[TNT]

Male birth control pill soon a reality - Men's Sexual Health Guide- msnbc.com

Found this article that might be of interest.



Teresa

[IvoryTowers]

Originally Posted by NotSorry

Perhaps I came of age with especially thoughtful males (I did after all grow up in the upper middle class suburbs, and it was hammered onto us that teenage pregnancy was very very bad), but even as far back as my teenage years I remember discussing with other males how we wished there were male birth control pills.

Mr NotSorry

That is wonderful to hear--I certainly hope more boys are having wishes like that! Cynically, however, I think you are just a rare and enlightened creature.

[slevin]

Another potential impact here is that even if a guy is taking some kind of male birth control pill he is often going to have to wear a condom anyway to avoid risk of STDs. This isn't a concern for people in an LTR, but that is only one segment of potential customers. Two risks surround that: will guys who take the pill stop wearing condoms cause a large increase in STD transmission? Will guys who want to wear a condom for STD prevention not want to take the pill as well (additional expense, pain to remember, many other concerns mentioned here)?

[SexyRedmondCpl]

Lea and I have definately had this conversation before. Personally, I wish she'd let me take more responsibility for birth control. We've already decided to go the "child free" route, so I'm ready to go under the knife (or laser, or whathaveyou). Oddly, she's the one with the hangup around my virility. When we're finally ready though, I'd much rather it be me than her... Way less invasive.

I dont think she'd give up bcps anyway. Better complexion, precise period control...

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by N8ture Girl

Men, do you have any thoughts or concerns about your wife having to be on a drug to prevent pregnancy? Or have you just really never thought about it before?

Let me demonstrate.

PMS + Wife + BC pills

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4589/rage2m.jpg

Now





PMS + Wife + NO BC pills.


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/945/rageqlu.jpg

Do you noticed the subtle difference in facial expression?

[lustylearning]

Birth control pills are wonderful, while simultaneously being a pain in the rear ~ remembering, refilling, etc. I used them. They were effective. Still a pain

Can I just take a moment to plug the IUD? I love my IUD 5 years and no having to remember to take it. No worrying about blood clots. No worrying about the risks of bc pills and smoking (and yes, I know I wouldn't have to worry if I didn't smoke). My IUD is even more effective than the pill I didn't want to have to take pills forever, especially since I'm on the heels of 40.

I don't know if hubby would have considered taking the pill. I suspect he would have if we were still considering having children, but since we're done with that, he went ahead and got a vasectomy. I would have gotten my tubes tied after my last child's birth, but I had a rather proactive obgyn who said, "Hey, why doesn't your husband just get a vasectomy? It's outpatient surgery for him. Getting your tubes tied would mean a tougher recovery for you and more time in the hospital." It was tough to argue with that logic, and there was no "lifestyle" to consider at the time.

btw, Chicup, you slay me

[lott]

Originally Posted by N8ture Girl

With some of the recent threads on birth control, vasectomies and such, it has gotten me thinking about how birth control has evolved and society has directed the path it has taken. It’s always been women who have had to worry about birth control due to society deeming that this was way. With the exception of condoms, everything is designed for women. I ponder why there hasn’t been drugs developed for men? With the advances in drugs for just about everything, how difficult is it to drug men's little swimmers? Is it really that hard, or is there something else at play here...? Is there anyone on the board that works in the pharmaceutical industry that would know if the drug companies just don’t have the funding for men's BC or they just haven’t been able to develop such a drug? I almost would think that its not a priority as there are far more important ailments that would take priority..

It seems that it is acceptable in society that women take these drugs and who knows what its doing to our bodies and the environment (evidence shows that elements of the pill is ending up in the water supply), while men just sail along. I know for many women, the pill is a god send and has many positive effects (the thought of being able to know exactly when your period will be is a selling point for me!!), but how did we as a society come up with lets give women drugs for 20-30 years and not develop any thing for men? Also do men consider or think about what their wives are potentially putting in their body? This kinda goes back to the vasectomy saga in another thread, why not share the responsibility? Ladies are on the pill until decided there will be no more children, then lady goes off the pill and hubby gets fixed. No more drugs, a woman’s body can go back to normal, the man never knows the difference (meaning no side effects) and all is good.

I have some friends that are in this dilemma now. They have had three children and he has 3 from a previous marriage and they are done having kids. She wants desperately to get off the pill and wants hubby to get a vasectomy. He says, why? Kinda jokingly, and is really not taking her seriously which just annoys her. Is this pretty common in today's households (mainly late 30's and older)?

Another question to ponder is men ask, or just let their wives be on some form of drug for birth control and women accept it no problems, but when a woman asks a man to get a 30 minute, one time procedure they get all worked up about it. For you men that have been faced with this what were your first thoughts when you were asked?

Men, do you have any thoughts or concerns about your wife having to be on a drug to prevent pregnancy? Or have you just really never thought about it before?

Women, are you concerned about the long term effects of the method of BC you use? Do you feel that the benifits(benifits other than pregnancy protection) outway the negative?


Disclaimer: I am trying to generate a friendly discussion, not fight. I am not trying to persuade anyone into doing anything. I just want some insight and thoughts on the subject and to understand other's ways of thinking. If some of you women want to stay on the pill for ever than more power to you, it's your body. Men if you don’t want a vasectomy then don’t get one.

Birth control pills are good for not having kids but for your sex life, as far as having the best experience you can have, they aren't too good. Here's why.

Sex involves hormones, pheromones, and how our genes interact with these things. They turn them off or on which gives us the best or not so good results as far as relationships and sex partners. When you take birth control pills you trick the body into thinking you're pregnant which means the type of men you date will be different as well as the amount of arousal you will have.

When you aren't the BCP, IUD, PATCH or any type of hormonal birth control, you ovulate and this causes a HIGH(depending on health) rate of arousal which means awesome sex. It also means you will pick men who are the opposite of you as far as genes but who is also the most healthy(usually the more rugged masculine type) in your pool of choices.

The same for a man. He will be more attracted to a woman when she is ovulating than one who is on BC.

If you want to not have kids but don't want hormones in your body, get lady-comp and cyclebeads. These two things let you know when you are fertile and the lady-comp lets you know the actual day you are ovulating.

I recommend you use both of them because you want to make sure that they both come up with the same conclusion so you don't make a wrong reading and end up pregnant. Study your cycle for six months before going bareback to make sure your fertile days and ovulation always occurs at the same time and you know when to have sex and not have sex or at least with a condom and lube. Use astroglide because this lube helps keep sperm from being motile.

If you were on BC make sure they are out your system which can take 6 months- 1 year depending on your metabolism(exercise speeds it up) because the hormones build up in your fat cells and can have your menstrual cycle go out of wack once in a while and can give a false reading and cause a pregnancy.

Also take "hot plants for her" supplement so you can make sure that your menstrual cycle is stable and also so you can have the best feeling when you have sex. There is a male version also called "hot plants for him". Make sure you eat some plant fats such as nuts and seeds or avocado with some type of protein when you take these pills so they can be absorbed and bioactive very efficiently. Be aware you both will be very horny so make sure you are ready for mind blowing sex all the time.

Lady-comp:
Lady-Comp & Baby-Comp Provide Safe, Reliable & Natural Birth Control

Cycle-beads:
CycleBeads - Natural Family Planning

Hot plants:
Enzymatic Therapy, Inc. - Hot Plants

[lott]

Here's articles on Birth Control and mate selection for men and women:

The truth about relationships and the birth control pill - 9/29/08 - San Francisco News - abc7news.com

"It all starts with the Swiss Scientist Claus Wedekind at the University of Bern asking women to smell a bunch of sweaty t-shirts. He asked women to smell t-shirts worn by unwashed and unknown men and then to rate which shirts they found most appealing. Weird, right? Subconsciously, it turns out most women gravitate toward the smell of men who have the polar opposite immune system, and thereby opposite smell of their father's and brother's. But&here's the Pill connection. Women who were on the pill were most attracted to men who smelled like their father or brother.

"In 2006, researchers at the University of New Mexico studied 48 couples' patterns in the bedroom. Conclusions reported that women with dissimilar MHC genes to their partner tended to be more satisfied, responsive and adventurous in the sexual arena. In fact, during ovulation they experienced more orgasms. Women with MHC similar mates, reported more fantasies about other men, especially during their ovulation. They also reported more infidelities."

Popular Science Blog - New Study: Fertile Strippers Make More Money
New Study: Fertile Strippers Make More Money

"Psychologist Geoffrey Miller and colleagues tapped the talent at local gentlemen's clubs and counted tips made on lap dances. Dancers made about $70 an hour during their peak period of fertility, versus about $35 while menstruating and $50 in between."

"Women on the pill averaged $37 (and had no performance peak) versus $53 for women off-pill. The contraceptive produces hormonal cues indicating early pregnancy, not an enticing target for a would-be suitor. Birth control could lead to many thousands of dollars lost every year."

[VanHlebar]

I don't have a lot to offer on the male pills area, but I can say that even getting snipped can be difficult for guys. Since I got my family started VERY young, two kids before 18 (yea I know don't start with me :lo: ), I knew after my son was born that I didn't want any more children. Unfortunately I had to wait until I was 25 before a doctor would perform the procedure on me and even then I had to have numerous consultations with him and my now ex-wife before he agreed to perform it.

I do think however that if there was a pill or something that guys could take that it would be marketable, just not sure from a chemical standpoint how feasible it really is.

-Van

[Speed & Trixie]

The only problem I have with my current birth control pill (Desogen) is that Planned Parenthood is no longer carying it!!!! The drug company is raising prices (again!) and PP says they can't keep the price low enough for their patients.

I love this pill, and I've tried nearly every type of BC (including several types of pills) on the market. NOTHING works for me like this pill.

PP let me buy out my prescription -- ironically, I now have 9 months to figure out what to do about this!

Grrrr....

/end rant

Trixie