Why are people so hesitant to be surgically safe?

[NCfuncouple98]

Originally Posted by prometheius

I thought it would be interesting to find out other peoples views on the subject of safe sex/being surgically safe.
I just wanted to hear other peoples' opinions on this issue.

I think it's the thread title that throws some to the defensive point of view. The title "why are people so hesitant". Well, some aren't hesitant, they just choose not to or have no desire to.

All in all, you are getting what you asked for, and it is very interesting to hear other peoples' views on the subject.

[prometheius]

All in all, you are getting what you asked for, and it is very interesting to hear other peoples' views on the subject.

I agree with you completely. It's all I hoped for.

[N8ture Girl]

Originally Posted by Speed & Trixie

I'm sorry but it is ABSOLUTELY your responsibility to make sure you don't get pregnant if you do not wish to become so! I am a woman, I am a human, I am responsible for my body, and no one else. I control what and WHOM goes into my body, and it's my job to keep MY body healthy and safe (not yours, not Speed's, not our swing partners).

It may be "unfair" that a man can ejaculate in a woman, impregnating her, then leave forever while she is "stuck" carrying and birthing the child, but you are aware of this fact of life. It is what it is. If we women don't want to be pregnant, it is our individual responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen. Yeah, it sucks, right along with PMS and periods and yearly exams, but there it is.

I can ask if a man has had a vasectomy (and trust his answer), I can demand he wear a condom, I can tell him not to cum in me, I can get on birth control myself, I can NOT have sex with him.... hell, at least I have options! (BTW some options are better than others, I know...)

I would never ask a man "what are you waiting for?" or ask a man to go have surgery because I don't want a child. By extension, if a man ever asks me "if you don't want kids why don't you just get fixed?" or "why are you on the pill?" I will respond by saying "because that's what's right for me and my body." Personally, for me, I feel like being on the pill and insisting on condoms is just fine. Is there still a 0.00001% chance I could get pregnant, YES. But I am very comfortable with that level of risk, for me.

No one wants to be told what to do (or not do), especailly when it comes to our bodies!

Easy there Trixie. I have no clue as to where your hostility and how you think I(we) are asking someone to get fixed for our benifit. Who is telling who what to do?? We are clearly asking for peoples views on the said topic. What people do with their own bodies is their own choice. I am taking care of myself and getting fixed and hubby is already. I would never ask anyone to get fixed for my benifit. So help me understand.


I hope everyone will read the orginial post in the context for which it is written.

If a man doesnt want to get fixed, then that is his choice. Thats not in dispute. The question is why. What are their legitimate concerns if any? I dont want to hear the cop-outs of "no one is taking my man-hood," or "it will reduce my ejaculate", or "it will hurt" or BS like that.These excuses are null and void and are nothing but myths. WE are all adults here, so I am hoping for a real discussion on the topic.

[warrencouple]

Being a "fixed" man, I had some hesitancy when I was first looking into it. This is well before I and the Mrs ever even contemplated the possibility of the existence of swinging, much less swinging ourselves (and we still haven't, swung, that is)

But, she didn't want kids (*really* didn't want, and doesn't still, want kids), I'm OK if the kids are old enough to use the bathroom without someone holding their hand, otherwise I'm not a kid person (have declined holding newborn neices / nephews, it makes me uncomfortable) So, I opted to get neutered.
I went for the no-scalpel surgery, took one initial visit with the Dr, then the surgery, and a follow up to a testing center (here's the cup, go home and fill it and bring it back within an hour) Got fixed on a Friday or Thursday (hey, it was almost 11 years ago!), was back to work on Monday (phone jockey, so no lifting / walking) No pain, no discoloration (bruising) Didn't even go for the general anesthetic, just a local, so I could drive myself home. She was able afterward to relax a lot more during sex, seeing as we no longer had to worry about the condom breaking.

As for why more guys don't get it done, I think it's in part, they use the word I did above for it, neutered. They think they'd be less of a "man" if they get fixed (this goes for men, period, not just lifestyle or vanilla) As for women, I think it's at least in part, the cost, and recovery time, and the fact that it is *far* more invasive.

Boy, took me a long time to get to the point of the thread, didn't it?

Jason

[prometheius]

Boy, took me a long time to get to the point of the thread, didn't it?

Jason

It took the "right" time!

[Speed & Trixie]

Sigh...I DO hate being misunderstood in type. I by no means intended to come across as hostile AT ALL. Please allow me to explain myself better (I hope)

Originally Posted by prometheius

Why don’t more people address this issue? I do realize that there may be some people out here that might still wish to have children, but for the most part, if they haven’t had kids by now, what are they waiting for?

I just wanted to hear other peoples' opinions on this issue

My opinion is: people don't address this issue (within a swinging-type setting) because it's a personal matter. I, personally, wouldn't talk to a swing partner about my reasons for doing anything with my body, be it my piercings or tattoos or surgeries. Frankly, it's none of their business WHY.

Originally Posted by prometheius

We’ve been told by more than one man that he was afraid that having the procedure done would hurt. This is a WTF moment for me, is there no pain in bearing a child? What about the financial pain of raising an unplanned child, or worse yet, the emotional pain of terminating an unwanted pregnancy? To me, this smacks of being self centered and makes me want to tell the guy that he can play with us once he gets his business taken care of.

Originally Posted by N8ture Girl

If a man doesnt want to get fixed, then that is his choice. Thats not in dispute. The question is why. What are their legitimate concerns if any? I dont want to hear the cop-outs of "no one is taking my man-hood," or "it will reduce my ejaculate", or "it will hurt" or BS like that.These excuses are null and void and are nothing but myths.

There are LOTS of legitimate concerns/ reasons not to undergo a voluntary medical procedure of any kind. Fear of pain, to me, is a legitimate concern (it seems you think this is a "cop-out" or BS answer?). I also happen to think fear of infection, botched surgery, scarring, loss of function, and lack of money/time/desire are all legitimate reasons. Yes, yes, it's a commonly performed thing and is probably one of the safer medical procedures, but if you want to know more on a very similar debate, check out the thread on circumcision! And, BTW, I do realize you are probably playing devil's advocate to generate discussion and make people think (so am I - hell, I think 90% of the population should be sterilized LOL).

Trixie

[slevin]

Why do I need an 'excuse'? It's not like everyone /should/ be getting a procedure like that done. Right now I sure as hell wouldn't even consider it because at some point we want to have kids, but even after we have kids I doubt that I will ever get it done. I don't see the need for getting it done, I'm not sure I have a specific reason. I hate doctors, hate doing anything medical that isn't absolutely required, hate taking medicine that I don't need to. When I have kidney stones I don't take any pain killers unless I can't stand the pain anymore lol.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by prometheius

Good golly, I didn't start this thread hoping to see it turn into this! Please, don't take every word I type so litterally. My only hope was that all of you kind people would read my post and express your opinions on the jist of the topic.

Originally Posted by N8ture Girl

Easy there Trixie. I have no clue as to where your hostility and how you think I(we) are asking someone to get fixed for our benifit.

I'm not sure what is bad or hostile about any of these posts. Geez, it seemed like a rather level discussion about a VERY personal choice. The figure skating forum I hang out in is outright abusive if the strong opinions here are considered hostile. I hope others will continue to add to the discussion, no matter what their position is.

[The Fuse]

Aha. I have found the hornet's nest.

This is an interesting topic and I have found the responses stimulating and sometimes amusing. The OP should be proud to have brought up an original topic that is so appropriate! Some of the answers have been perhaps a bit forceful, but that happens sometimes.

My serious answer to "why don't more men do it?" is that like a lot of things, our opinions are influenced by our situations. Let me try to explain. My impression is that for many couples, I'm guessing the majority of those still of childbearing age, the woman is on birth control of some sort. -- I wonder if that is true? I just consider it the default way that people work things. --If it is true, then those couples don't care whether their swing partners are snipped, because they aren't going to get pregnant anyway.

Following that linkage some more, then, if most people are not hoping for a V-safe man, then having that surgery does not become one of the things most people expect in play partners. As we all know, prevailing expectations are very influential, sometimes seeping into the collective (un)consciousness.

A few more random thoughts:

One, Having a vasectomy is, after all, surgery. Any surgery is potentially serious. That would discourage plenty of men/couples who are on the pill from doing it to suit their hobby. Not to mention that some insurance doesn't cover it, so the bill would be quite a consideration.

Two, If someone tells me they are vasectomy-safe, I'll nod and smile, but it's not like I'm going to place that kind of trust in someone I don't know well. So if someone does it to make themselves a more attractive swing partner, it's not helping with me...and probably not with lots of people. Also, I'm 42, so the chances of me getting pregnant, let alone with a condom on, are pretty darn small.

Three, I'll have to agree with those who believe that it's every woman/couple's responsibility to make sure they don't get pregnant. I couldn't expect someone to consider having surgery just to have sex with me. It's bad enough trying to find out if they've been tested for STDs. Plus, the trust thing again. Someone can tell you they are safe, but they could well be lying. If they are wanting to bareback, and think you might go for it, well...

Four, Have you ever met someone, usually a guy, who won't fix their male pet because of some weird boy-macho thing? I've known at least one very smart guy who had this attitude with a pet cat. Even worse when considering having it done to themselves. Even though it's wrong, lots of guys have the sense that getting the snip could be emasculating. More dis-incentive.

In conclusion, I'd say the framing of the question "Why are some people so hesitant to..." suggests that having a vasectomy is less significant than it is. It's not major surgery, but it's not like having a mole removed either.

[CXXC]

Mrs. CXXC and I made the joint decision to let me get snipped 4 years ago. She had been on the pill for nearly 25 years and we both felt it would be better for her to get off that little sucker. So, I made the appoint ment and SNIP!!!!
It was virtually painless. I may be strange in that I didnt feel any discomfort at all the next day or any day after.

I loved the fact that the doctor tol Mrs. CXXC that we should have sex as often as possible to "Run the plumbing out!". HE HE HE!! That worked out well! HA HA HA! "Hey honey! The doctor said we HAVE to! Roll over!"

As I have been V safe for years, there was not reason to have a yong woman undergo the proceedure. For her, it is not a simple matter of a couple clamps and a 1/4 inch incision. Hers ir truly invasive.

As of fears of getting pregnant....
We feel it is all parites involved in the activity to avoid the possibility. Are condoms perfect? NO! Do we prefer skin to skin? YES! BUT!!! We do not plan on going bareback with anyone as we have not known anyone long enough to trust that activity! V safe or not!

Let us just say, safety and health are our first concern. Having a child is 2nd. After all, I childproofed my home for 28 years and one STILL got in! ACK!

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Speed & Trixie

I'm sorry but it is ABSOLUTELY your responsibility to make sure you don't get pregnant if you do not wish to become so!

I have to agree with this statement. Then I have to add one thing that no one else has addressed in this thread.... so you are fixed and you can't get pregnant... I think more people use condoms within swinging to prevent STDs than they do to prevent pregnancy.

As far as the pregnancy issue goes, I'm on the pill that is my choice on how to handle not wanting kids. I'd love to get fixed but the simple fact is that my insurance won't cover it unless it's a medical necessity (which it's not) and it's too costly (and too invasive of a procedure) for me to do unless it is a necessity.

Pet could get fixed and the discussion has come up, since we don't want children anyway. But, it's not something that either of us are pushing for because for us, the pregnancy issues is covered and for swinging we would be using condoms anyway (yes, they are not 100% effective in preventing ANYTHING but they do cut the risk).

I can see your argument here if you are a couple who is ONLY trying to prevent pregnancy and have no desire to reproduce ... but I just don't think that's the reason that most swingers use condoms. However, from what I have seen many swingers who will not use condoms and for whom pregnancy is still a concern they have taken that route. It all just comes down to what you want to do for you and what is important to you.

[Chicup]

I like to keep my options open.

We don't plan on having my children.

Plans change.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by prometheius

For Mr. NC, have it done on a Friday and he should be able to return to work on Monday as long as he doesn't strain himself. Your recovery time would be much longer.

I would say you could be back to work, but you probably wouldn't want to be.

[tnt69couple]

Originally Posted by BiloxiCouple

My wife has been fixed for years for health reasons. Being safe for me is an unnecessary surgery. There are other alternatives to being safe with swing partners.

With all that said now, before April of last year it could have been a possibility to have the surgery. After April, because of being on blood thinners (for the rest of my life), I am avoiding any surgery if possible. Don't need the risk. The zipper cut was enough

Surgery? I guess you could call it that. I had a vasectomy done several years ago. Went in on Friday. They numbed my scrotum, made a one inch cut and snip. A few sutures and I drove myself home.

I had sex the following day and went to work on Monday.

[Cpl2share]

I got cut 3 weeks after our last child was born. Mrs. Cpl was going to have it done at the same time as the delivery, but our insurance at the time would not pay for it because she was under 21. Aint that a crock? So we shelled out the $500 (no insurance for me) and I got done. She was sick of the pill and we both hate condoms. A couple of years ago she began having serious plumbing prioblems and finally went in for a hyst. Now there is no concern at any point (except STD), but it is SWEEEEEEEEET to go on vacation (or play) without looking at the red dot on the calendar.