couple admitted positive - what now?

[des1re06]

I have to wonder why she told you guys if she wasn't telling others? I'm hoping that they were telling others that they played with during the course of the night.

I have no idea, but if they did tell you, would you go down on them? I don't think so. We've talked socially for about a year, but weren't that close. I was asked not to say anything.

I wonder if they don't understand how contagious it is. I think I'll have a sit down with them and let them know. I'll also inform the doctor in our group.

thanks for the advice.

Mrs. D

[tribbles]

HPV infection: Can men get it too - MayoClinic.com

Genital HPV spreads through sexual contact. Both men and women can pass it to their partners. Certain types of HPV cause genital warts, but the virus usually causes no signs or symptoms

If there are no signs or symptoms, how do we tell which men have it?


If the woman has warts, but the male, her steady partner/husband does not, maybe she does not think it's very likely she will pass it on. After all, he can keep playing cuz he has no signs, right?

[highlander]

Originally Posted by newbieswinger

i think its illegal to knowingly have a STD and not tell anyone. i would contact the local health dept and ask about it

Of course is isn't illegal to have sex with multiple people and never get any STD tests. Part of the problem is that many folks that have an STD simply don't know it.

[highlander]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

As far at telling a club owner so they can MAKE A ANNOUNCEMENT TO GET TESTED. Get serious. They make that announcement and the club will be cleared out in a matter of seconds. You have a name, give it to them, let them tell the infected people to get out of their club.

I actually think there would be a market in clubs that required all members to get regular STD tests(these might be provided free of charge to single women wanted to attend and paid for out of admission fees)-and required folks to get some real education on STD's/STI's. IMHO being able to spot what say active herpes looks like is something every swinger should be educated on.

Anything short of regular testing provides minimal additional safety. Many folks that have an STD simply don't know it. I would be surprised if your own club has less incidence of HSV and HPV than the general population.

The thing is a bit of care can go a LONG ways here. Folks that have HSV that are on anti virals are much less contagious.


Anyhow, I don't think it would be that big a deal for a larger club to get someone trained to draw blood so tests could be done on site. Good testing is NOT cheap. However, one of the biggest problems with any swing club is attracting single women. I think that an environment that really protected the members health would attract women into swinging that might not otherwise participate--because that kind of environment really would be clearly safer than other social venues.

[VegasLee]

highlander,

What you propose is the "perfect world" solution to all problems regarding this matter.

Problem is, this is the real world. What you are proposing would never work at any club, ours or others.

The costs would be out of this world and the dozen people that would agree to it about of the 1000 I see each week would be the only members coming to the club.

This would have no effect on attracting single women and to be honest, we don't go out of our way to attract single women. They have proven over the years to be more of a problem then the single men or couples.

A couple of years ago we had a nurse from a private clinic come in and offer very inexpensive kits to guests that they could take home and turn in to the clinic or send in or even give them back to her. In two months NO ONE accepted the offer. Many people complained about her even being in the club and bringing up the subject there.

This is not something that people want to deal with in a club. Most won't even deal with it like an adult in private.

Adults need to act like adults, take the responsibility as an adult that wants to play in this world. They need to be tested on their own, if they are found to have anything at all that could effect the health of others they need to stay out of the clubs and the Lifestyle until they are cured and safe. Simple as that. Your right, many don't know they are infected because they don't take the effort to be responsible for their own well being and actions. They want everyone else to do it for them. If things get to far out of hand, it will become illegal to have sex with anyone other then your one spouse, the government will step in and protect the public from their own actions. That is the real world.

[highlander]

First off, there _have_ been substantial organizations that have operated STD testing programs for their members:
More University in the Bay Area
Kerista Commune
Rajneesh Community

now none of those operations were commercial businesses in the conventional sense(i.e. they were popularly labeled as sex cults). I've seen a few swinger clubs that have advertised STD testing required--but it is plausible they went under because of that. The Ace of Hearts had some specific events that required STD testing-and they were fairly popular from what heard. However, there _were_ complaints from those that weren't admitted.

The current, large scale example of a working STD testing program is that the AIM Medical foundation operates in the porn industry. Now, the results there have been better than a lot of folks predicted.

As far as costs, I _DO_ understand that in the present market, $600/year in testing per patron is a bit high-and that would limit the market. Now, one important thing to get here is the economy of scale. That $600/year involves some tests that are pretty pricey because they are new. Those costs will come down _IF_ there was a large block of customers. That puts us in a chicken/egg situation. Basically if things scaled up, I think that a quality testing program could be done for $80/year per patron.

Now the question to ask yourself:
What are the costs associated with STD infections(I'm not thinking just HIV here)? What are the costs to your industry overall?

Now, you may be right that you as an individual club owner can't really deal with it. I'm not entirely sure of that though. I've only seen really good testing services available the last few years(i.e. the stuff AIM Foundation sells I think has met that bar-the past stuff has been problematic).

Anyhow, what is happening in the real world is we have have a significant rise of STD infections nationwide for a while now. One of the latest developments is that HIV is increasingly becoming a heterosexual disease in the rural south. That is the type of thing that will in time have political effects.

When you look at this history here, when some problem like this gets big enough, voters demand action, and political plans that might not have been otherwise considered get considered. Adolph Hitler got elected on a platform that included closing large brothels in Germany? Why? Because syphilis was getting big enough it just couldn't be swept under the carpet-and Hitler had a plan for which there weren't that many other alternatives out there.

I was living in SF when modern day public health officials shut down sex clubs there. I think it was a BIG mistake-but I saw it done.

I think the choice folks in the US sex industry have is to get serious about self-regulation or actively supporting constructive legislative proposals that will actually work. There are REAL LIFE examples of this-what AIM Foundation is doing in the porn industry has _worked_(I'd love to see a trailer on EVERY porn film sold in the US explaining what the testing is that porn stars go through to act in those films I think that would be more helpful than just about anything else).

Originally Posted by VegasLee

highlander,

What you propose is the "perfect world" solution to all problems regarding this matter.

Problem is, this is the real world. What you are proposing would never work at any club, ours or others.

The costs would be out of this world and the dozen people that would agree to it about of the 1000 I see each week would be the only members coming to the club.
...........................
This is not something that people want to deal with in a club. Most won't even deal with it like an adult in private.

Adults need to act like adults, take the responsibility as an adult that wants to play in this world. They need to be tested on their own, if they are found to have anything at all that could effect the health of others they need to stay out of the clubs and the Lifestyle until they are cured and safe. Simple as that. Your right, many don't know they are infected because they don't take the effort to be responsible for their own well being and actions. They want everyone else to do it for them. If things get to far out of hand, it will become illegal to have sex with anyone other then your one spouse, the government will step in and protect the public from their own actions. That is the real world.

[VegasLee]

The AIM FOUNDATION has done a great job in the porn Industry, an Industry I have been involved in since 1979. I have seen Sharon stand with many a politician and shove AIM down their throat until the State of California passed laws requiring testing since about half the porn is in their state or more. Before it was law, less then 10% of the industry would agree to testing. Being in the Porn industry is a profession, swinging to most is a hobby. People treat it much differently and the mindset is much different.

We see 800 to 1000 people a week at the club, 40% tourists from all over the world. In 26 years we have had two people state they have contracted something while at the parties there. I have had others come tell me that people that are at our parties have something, I go ask the person and most of them have been honest with me if they do. We ask them to leave until they are no longer endangering other peoples health. I can promise you if I post a notice on our site or door that states you will be tested before being permitted to the parties I will be locking the second oldest party in the country within a week. I am not new to this, I am not relaying on what I am hearing or reading on the Internet. I am going by 30 years of experience both in the Porn Business and dealing with Swingers. With the number of people that come into our parties each week there would be no possible way of testing them. The regulars maybe, the 300 to 400 tourists? No way.

I am not arguing with you that the idea is a good one in theory, but in reality it just won't happen. When the government steps in and makes it mandatory as was done in the Porn Industry in California, clubs will be closing before the ink is dry on the law.

Swingers are not going to permit "others" to demand tests of them or have access to those tests.

The problem in this country today is that everyone wants someone else to cover their ass. People today will not be personally responsible for their own actions and safety. This really all comes down to EVERYONE being personally responsible for their self and the safety of those they interact with.

I don't want the government to tell me to be responsible, I can do that myself. If the government goes that far they are going to stop all swingers parties anyway. They have their own way of fixing things, testing won't be there way of doing it.

[good times]

Since Highlander and I have had this discussion here on the board before, all I need to say here is, VegasLee is absolutely right on. I agree and couldn't say it any better.

[tribbles]

Can I ask again how we test the males for HPV?

[highlander]

Originally Posted by tribbles

Can I ask again how we test the males for HPV?

There is a PCR DNA test for HPV that is is used on men "off label" use-and it isn't wildly accurate(I think it is supposed to spot 85% or so of the HPV cases out there. That test is also a bit pricey because I think it is fairly new.

The other thing happening in that area is use of Gardasil for men(AIM is one organization doing that). Gardasil is not FDA approved for use in men--but some docs will use FDA approved medications for purposes other than what they are approved for.

The HPV situation strikes as kind of strange. Basically the disease is very widespread, but only one gender can get decent testing for it. The treatment options also seem tricky. It has only been with the advent of better testing that folks are talking about clearing of the disease. That _might_ open the way to better treatment.

Now, the thing is that 80 years ago, cancer was unequivocally regarded as a non-infectious disease. I remember a teacher talking 35 years ago how that was starting to come into question-and now we have actually therapies based on that notion.