Been there. Done that. Had a good time.

[HerpesCpl]

It amazes me how something so prevalent has such a stigma to it. We could have AIDs and come out more easily than we can with something as simple as HSV. All HSV really is is an annoyance, a skin irritation.

We have Herpes and we swing and we don't tell our partners that we have it. We don't swing when there are any symptoms or signs of potential symptoms and we do use condoms for any vaginal penetration. The crazy part is that we both had it when we were single and didn't know it and therefore didn't take precautions, so what's the difference between that and now. At least now we know so we do/can take precautions.

I discovered I had it shortly after I started dating my wife. But, I'd had it for probably 10 years by then. It started when I was in my late teens and I went to the dr the first few times and different drs all told me "it's just a skin/heat rash". So I put neosporin on it and went on my way. Then I started dating my wife and she told me that she had herpes. I told her about the skin rash I'd experienced multiple times now and we agreed I should ask a new dr and this time specifically ask for a Herpes test. Sure enough, that's what it was. We were lucky in that we both had it. Who knows how many people I spread it to unknowingly due to a bad diagnosis. When I just thought it was a rash, as long as sex didn't hurt I saw no reason not to have it. But, now I know what it is and the second I feel I MIGHT have an irritation all sex is off.

We feel that with more than 25% of the population having the virus, that couples are taking less of a risk by playing with us than they are with the many infected people who don't even know they have it. Somehow I'm betting we aren't alone.

[daisy girl]

Originally Posted by HerpesCpl

It amazes me how something so prevalent has such a stigma to it. We could have AIDs and come out more easily than we can with something as simple as HSV. All HSV really is is an annoyance, a skin irritation.

We have Herpes and we swing and we don't tell our partners that we have it. We don't swing when there are any symptoms or signs of potential symptoms and we do use condoms for any vaginal penetration. The crazy part is that we both had it when we were single and didn't know it and therefore didn't take precautions, so what's the difference between that and now. At least now we know so we do/can take precautions.

I discovered I had it shortly after I started dating my wife. But, I'd had it for probably 10 years by then. It started when I was in my late teens and I went to the dr the first few times and different drs all told me "it's just a skin/heat rash". So I put neosporin on it and went on my way. Then I started dating my wife and she told me that she had herpes. I told her about the skin rash I'd experienced multiple times now and we agreed I should ask a new dr and this time specifically ask for a Herpes test. Sure enough, that's what it was. We were lucky in that we both had it. Who knows how many people I spread it to unknowingly due to a bad diagnosis. When I just thought it was a rash, as long as sex didn't hurt I saw no reason not to have it. But, now I know what it is and the second I feel I MIGHT have an irritation all sex is off.

We feel that with more than 25% of the population having the virus, that couples are taking less of a risk by playing with us than they are with the many infected people who don't even know they have it. Somehow I'm betting we aren't alone.

I am curious...If someone asked you about your STD status, would you be honest?

[Ellyanne77]

I truly feel for the couples afflicted with this. On that note let me respond to the poster above that does not tell people they have herpes. If a couple who knowingly had an incurable STD infected my wife or myself, I don't know what I would do, but I can assure you I would bring the wrath of God down on you. What you are doing is selfish and I think is borderline criminal.

[ross_sally]

Thank all that posted above, I really appreciate your sharing. As you said, I'm sure many more others "play" and don't mention it, thinking no visible sores? no need to tell. Maybe after time, hiding it becomes the norm through rationalizations.
[Edit] I just read more of the posts, including #16, again I appreciate the honesty, that is, the honesty for posting that you are not honest with other swingers.

"The Doc didn't seem to think it matters that much, said 75% of the world has it."
versus an earlier post from the math genius stating "less than 1%" !!!!!!!!! WTF?!!

Me wonders how many others are reading this thread, cringing, having almost forgotten that they have Herpes.

Hmmmm..

Amazing, and again thanks for the dose of reality, you will be fine, and your honesty should be commended. I've heard that the outbreaks get further and further apart with time.

Ross

[havefuninsun]

Originally Posted by HerpesCpl

It amazes me how something so prevalent has such a stigma to it. ...
We have Herpes and we swing and we don't tell our partners that we have it.

If we played with you and found out later you had herpes and didn't tell us, we would be LIVID with you.

You admit that there is a stigma to it (albeit you don't understand the stigma, but stigma nonetheless), and then you admit you PLAY WITH PEOPLE WITHOUT THEM HAVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR DISEASE.

Hell -- if we have a friggin COLD we tell people before meeting them ... we don't want to pass germs of any type.

AND YOU CAN PASS THE DISEASE IF YOU HAVE AN OUTBREAK OR NOT. I bet when you contracted the disease, your partner didn't have an outbreak or you probably wouldn't have played with that person.

This is so irresponsible. SO irresponsible.

You're the couple that we're scared to death of.

[toomuchfun]

It sucks a lot... if I find out they knew and were playing anyway with out telling us... I'll quite likely run them the fuck over.

I suppose I'll get over the anger portion at some point, it just really sucks that they will likely keep on playing, but since I'm not a douche bag we will basically have to end what is starting to become a really great fun part of our lives.

It's so terribly, horribly un fair. We did everything we were supposed to do, we weren't picking people up in bars, we were selective, we played with people that claimed to be d/d free. We know couples that have been swinginf for two decades, and they don't have herpes.

We have not even been doing it for a year, and some assclown infects us? We're not dying, our lives aren't ruined, but they are certainly negatively impacted FOREVER... FOR LI... UNTIL I DIE... THERE IS NO CURE, THERE IS NO CURE, THERE IS NO CURE, keeps running through my head over and over and over again.

I'd rather have fallen and broken every bone in my body, at least that heals.

[prettylady]

Hi 50s lady,
I am sorry to hear about your situation.
It really brings it home when you see a friend tell you that these problems are really out there. Stats mean nothing when you don't know anyone who has had to deal with these issues.
We have friends, who would remain our friends no matter what thier play situation becomes. Swinger friends are life long friends. I mean who else can you talk openly about this stuff with?

Your friend,
Prettylady

[JustAskJulie]

Reading this thread, especially the posts from those who have come forward saying they have HSV, just proves a point that has been said on here many times, you are best off to just assume that EVERYONE has something. When you go at it from the attitude of "oh I'm being careful" or "I pick my playmates selectively", etc. you are asking for trouble. Swinging is risky and contracting an STD (of any kind) is one of those risks that we take when we choose to swing. I don't want an STD anymore than anyone else does, but I'd rather assume that everyone has it than assume that everyone who has it either knows they have it or is being honest about it.

One thing I do find interesting both in this thread and going back to others on this topic is that you rarely see anyone who comes out saying they have an STD posting anywhere else. Chances are that there are more like 50sLady who have it but aren't about to admit it in a way that allows us to know who they are publicly.

[tncinmd]

Julie, we don't understand what you're saying. Do you mean that everyone should give up swinging (well, maybe not soft swing) ? Toomuchfun specifically said that they always used condoms for penetration. Which seems to mean that short of wearing hazmat suits, it's a risk everyone takes all the time. From what I've read, the shedding involves the entire pubic region, which basically means condoms are only partially effective.

[toomuchfun]

The only way we could have been safer would be using condoms / dental dams during oral.

[tncinmd]

Originally Posted by toomuchfun

The only way we could have been safer would be using condoms / dental dams during oral.

At that point, we'd give it up entirely. If the risk is that severe, better to play with just us.

It's kinda like the anti-depressent medication that makes your libido disappear...what could be more depressing ?

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by toomuchfun

The only way we could have been safer would be using condoms / dental dams during oral.

That may be exactly how you ended up with it. Considering that HSV can transfer from the oral variety to the genital.... perhaps your partner just had oral herpes and wasn't (or maybe was) showing symptoms and you didn't realize it, they went down on one of you and transferred it. It's not just the pubic region you have to worry about.

Originally Posted by tncinmd

Julie, we don't understand what you're saying. Do you mean that everyone should give up swinging (well, maybe not soft swing) ? Toomuchfun specifically said that they always used condoms for penetration. Which seems to mean that short of wearing hazmat suits, it's a risk everyone takes all the time. From what I've read, the shedding involves the entire pubic region, which basically means condoms are only partially effective.

I just don't think people stop to really think through these things enough. Not just with STDs but with the risks in general. I've watched so many people through the years say they can deal with the risks they are taking that it's all ok, until something happens then it's a completely different story. I realize that we don't know how we will handle anything until we are in that situation and I am the same. But, when it comes down to it, I just don't think people really think it through. They are stuck thinking "Oh it will never happen to me" and even when people post about the bad things that have happened to them as a result of taking this risk (not neccessarily STDs) too often people jump on them and assume they are a troll; I think they do this because they want to believe that these things don't really happen or can't happen to them. But, the reality is that if it can happen to someone else it can happen to ME, so when I believe that someone else's story is true, I have to then accept that that could be me in their shoes.

[crazykatie]

Julie is absolutely right!!

The problem is that most swingers think they are safe because they are using condoms. However, herpes is transmitted by skin to skin contact in the genital region and the male condom does not provide complete protection against all such contact. In fact, it does not cover many of the areas. Think about it. The rubber ends well before the base of the penis. The woman's outer and inner lips almost always contact the base of the penis. So, when a woman is infected, she is almost always exposing the man.

The CDC still recommends using condoms but admits that there are no reliable studies on the overall effectiveness of condoms as a preventive measure against HSV. I think it is nearly universally admitted that condoms are not 100% effective. But, a growing body of evidence is suggesting that condoms are far less effective than had been previously thought.

The other thing that most swingers refuse to recognize is that most infected people don't even know they are infected because they develop no external symptoms or have symptoms so slight that they don't recognize themselves as being infected. Moreover, most health professionals will not run a blood screen for HSV with an STD test because HSV is so common today that one in four will screen positive for the antibody even though they may never have contracted a sufficient infection to be a carrier or had any symptoms. Even when you ask to be screened for STDs, the HSV test is generally not ordered unless you specifically complain of symptoms related to HSV or have an observable outbreak (or specifically ask for the test). So, that long trusted couple who tells you they don't have anything, they probably don't know and don't think they do.

Truth is, this disease is so misunderstood and stigmatized that those with it simply will not admit to it under any circumstances. And, why should they. An honest couple might be respected, but they would still be treated as lepers by the swinging community at large. Worse, anyone choosing to associate with them (either because they were HSV positive themselves or because they had evaluated the risks and had decided to play anyway) would run the risk of being branded as lepers purely through association. So, you should assume that your playmates know that they are HSV positive but are unwilling to tell you the truth because they know that they are on a suppressive therapy and haven't had an outbreak in years.

It is probably a rationalization, but the HSV positive couple probably thinks that the risk of contracting the disease from them is lower than having sex with someone who thinks they are clean. After all, a person who suffers symptomatically generally knows when an outbreak is in progress or on the way and is benefiting from suppressive therapy. Also, there is at least a 25% chance that the supposedly clean couple you might play with is not.

[toomuchfun]

Julie and Katie, very well said.

And your exactly right about STD tests not including HSV, if you walk in and say give me the full work up, they will test you for everything BUT hsv.

This is what really screws people, because then they think they are clean and they very well may be infected and just A Symptomatic and then they spread it around.

I know that in Jan my wife and I were clean, we were specifically tested for HSV and neg for both 1 and 2. We still don't know which we have yet though.

We could have gotten it from oral, or we could have gotten it from protected sex... just like mentioned above condoms don't really do much to protect you from hsv at all. The most afflicted parts of the genitalia (scrotum and vulva) come in to contact with each other regularly.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

When you go at it from the attitude of "oh I'm being careful" or "I pick my playmates selectively", etc. you are asking for trouble. Swinging is risky and contracting an STD (of any kind) is one of those risks that we take when we choose to swing. I don't want an STD anymore than anyone else does, but I'd rather assume that everyone has it than assume that everyone who has it either knows they have it or is being honest about it.

It's one thing to trust your partner's assertion of selectivity, foolish or not, but I don't know how one can even begin to trust every other person that the partner plays with. It's foolish to assume every person that person has played with are ALL selective and can somehow weed out those with HSV2 just from their tremendous selectivity.

I've been debating this concept of trust and safety and how it relates to oral sex, use of condoms and other STD preventative measures. Condoms or other barriers are absolutely no guarantee, especially if the same aren't used for oral sex. So, perhaps one should just have sex with those they "trust". Yet, even if one were to trust their partner, trust for one person just cannot be extended to everyone else that person has had sex with. If it's already foolish enough to trust one partner's judgment based on this arbitrary "I'm selective" about relative strangers, then it's completely foolish to trust their other partner's judgment about everyone that person has had sex with, and so on. So, by default, the partner one might want to trust, can't be trusted either. Sigh.

If I think too much (which is pretty much all the time) about this, I end up in the "maybe it's just not worth it" or I think I need to fuck in a HazMat suit. There is certainly plenty to think about in this thread and forum about safety and risk tolerance (or lack thereof).

Kudos to those few whom have disclosed their status and stories and take responsible steps regarding their status. That kudos is not extended to the couple that does not disclose their status and knowingly exposes others. That is just incomprehensible to me, and there's not enough bandwidth for me to express my dismay and disgust at that practice.

Thank you 50sLady and TooMuchFun for sharing.