No Condom Rule????

[reed&diana]

We know two couples that have been swinging for over thirty years and do not use condoms. They say they have never had any problems. It seems that people in the lifestyle are aware of the risks and act accordingly with screening the new playmates. There is risk associated with this lifestyle. What is disturbing is the ones who look down and put down others who will accept more risk in their fun. Unless you use dental dams and condoms for oral, who is to say that your risk is better than someone elses.

[JacobSky]

Good point reed&diana.

Mr. Alura's ealier reply on this thread explained how I feel on this issue. So does Nimbis43's reply. He points out that he feels condoms provide a false sense of security. I will use them though if the couple requests it.

I'd rather see tests though, as I love to perform oral on a woman, and condoms don't block herpes either.

I prefer to get to know the couple and stay tested.

[twobears]

I like to say to this group that says "a false feeling of safe" no I do not expect the condom to do it all and I use condom when I do oral except on some women(bi female here). I do have female condoms oh in case I want to use them. You can not really totally depend even on a test, as a negative now, I have sex with you and next month become positive, then guess what. It is going to be common for all people to test for HIV in the near future,it could help save your life. I get so tried of hearing how you cut down your danger of std's by screening couples,nor for the ones that "know" the couple,you do not know what they did 10yrs back and oh yes one is usually positive within 6 months after being exposed to HIV,but not all the time and the same with the Herpes virus,it is very common and the other std that can harm female reproductive system is hardy detected except by ordor or discharge. There are people that are walking time bombs,have been exposed and don't know it and having what I call "free" sex. Yes, there are only certain condoms that protect against HIV,most today have the chemicals in the lube oh. I am 60 years old becoming positive will shorten my life and my age group will have less of a chance of getting HIV than a younger couple who started having sex in the last 20 years. Yes, we know the danger of the lifestyle and condoms are a must. I use strawberry ones for my orals sex on males,taste good and I still can give good head I have been told. Using condoms can be fun and sexy if we look at it in a different way and how we use,the kind we use. I like to help my male partners when his touch is need to finish putting it on, I am holding his balls, licking them you get the idea,got to keep him hard.LOL

[SCcpl40]

Preventing STD Infection
The most reliable ways to avoid becoming infected with or transmitting STDs are:

Abstain from sexual intercourse (i.e., oral, vaginal, or anal sex)
Be in a long-term, mutually monogamous relationship with an uninfected partner

Reducing Your Risk of STD Infection
All partners should get tested for HIV and other STDs before initiating sexual intercourse. However, if you decide to be sexually active with a partner whose infection status is unknown or who is infected with HIV or another STD, you can reduce your risk of contracting an STD:

Ask a new sex partner if he or she has an STD, has been exposed to one, or has any unexplained physical symptoms. Do not have sex if your partner has signs or symptoms of STDs, such as sores, rashes, or discharge from the genital area. Many common STDs have no symptoms but can still be transmitted to a sexual partner. If your partner has had sexual relations with someone else recently, he or she may have an STD, even if there are no symptoms.
Use a new condom for each act of insertive intercourse.
Get regular checkups for STDs (even if you show no symptoms), and be familiar with the common symptoms. Most STDs are readily treated, and the earlier treatment is sought and sex partners are warned, the less likely the disease will do irreparable damage.
STD FAQs and Basic Facts (Printable Version)
This section of the NPIN Website connects you to basic information from the Division of STD Prevention (DSTD) at the CDC's National Center for HIV, STD and TB Prevention.

Basic Facts on STDs
Get fact sheets, articles, and reports on some of the most common STDs:
Bacterial Vaginosis (BV)
Chlamydia
Genital Herpes/Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV)
Genital Warts/Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
Gonorrhea
STDs and HIV/AIDS
Syphilis
Trichomoniasis

FAQs on STD Trends Get answers to questions about trends in STD infection, including their occurrence in specific populations and the economic impact of STD infection in the United States.

Now you have the information, it's a personal choice, like drinking and driving, smoking, wearing a condom. People do it sometimes for years without any problems. Life is a risk if you live it to the fullest, or you could be holed up in a bunker just watching it go by.

[lott]

twobears, I agree with everything you stated BUT please try to stay away from condoms that have nonoxynol-9 on them as they INCREASE the chances of getting an std.

Also, if you want a good, strong, and real fitting condom get the world's thinnest which is zero zero three condoms. They are a japanese condom and they are THIN and STRONG and also have no taste due to the proteins and water soluble substances being washed away. They should also be good for being who have latex allergies due to this very reason.

You should also use a nice silky sheer glyde dam when going down on a woman because hpv is real and can cause havoc on your life. Just put some lube on the vagina before performing orals sex with the glyde dam.

I just read a post by someone on another site stating that they had oral sex on someone and they found out that the hpv virus had grown on their throat and therefore had to have numerous operations to get rid of it or risk losing their throat. Real scary.

[Mr TybeeSwing]

I find the "condoms don't protect against all STDs so I don't use them" comment a little like the "a bullet proof vest won't stop an armor piercing round so I won't wear one" theory. There is no such thing as a 100% solution, but studies have shown that gay men (the most at risk group) having sex with a condom are 75% less likely to contact a STD than those that don't wear them. As a guy that plays poker as a hobby I think I will stict with the odds.

[good times]

Originally Posted by Mr TybeeSwing

I find the "condoms don't protect against all STDs so I don't use them" comment a little like the "a bullet proof vest won't stop an armor piercing round so I won't wear one" theory. There is no such thing as a 100% solution, but studies have shown that gay men (the most at risk group) having sex with a condom are 75% less likely to contact a STD than those that don't wear them. As a guy that plays poker as a hobby I think I will stict with the odds.

This view, which I have heard before, always baffles me. I am not gay, nor do we play with gay/bi men, nor do we engage in anal sex, so why would that statistic be relevant to me? The reason I ask this is that if you read the studies and even if you believe the common statistics, gays are in a completely different and much higher risk group than people who engage only in vaginal sex, so while I respect your choice to have your opinion regarding condom use, I just don't understand how a non-relevant statistic like this would be a basis for making that choice. To apply your example, it seems to me to be like saying, "since a bullet proof vest will stop everything except an armor piercing round, I better wear one for this squirt gun fight."

[Mr TybeeSwing]

While gay mean are at the highest overall risk for STDs, currently the most at risk group for AIDS is black heterosexual women, followed by white heterosexual women. I am not trying to tell anyone what they should do, and I can even see the logic behind two exclusive couples or the like, however I can't see the justification of the risk for the majority of people in the lifestyle. But if you are 100% sure of your sexual partners history go for it.

[Chicup]

While the risk of AID's is really quite low for a heterosexual couple in swinging, you only have to be wrong once.

Also there is the added benifit of LOWERING the chance of other STD's. Yes a condom does not make you HSVII proof, but it can help. Having recently had a HSVII scare (which turned out negative) all I can say is that you really don't want it.

Added birth control is also a nice thing to have. The more layers of protection the better if you/your wife is still of child bearing age.

Condoms are NOT a universal barrier, and being selective with your partners is more important, however I would never belittle someones insistance on using them.

[good times]

Originally Posted by Mr TybeeSwing

While gay mean are at the highest overall risk for STDs, currently the most at risk group for AIDS is black heterosexual women, followed by white heterosexual women. I am not trying to tell anyone what they should do, and I can even see the logic behind two exclusive couples or the like, however I can't see the justification of the risk for the majority of people in the lifestyle. But if you are 100% sure of your sexual partners history go for it.

I think I understand your point Mr. Tybee and have even read claims similar to what you refer to above, and like Chiccup said, I would never belittle a persons decision to use condoms, nor would I belittle anyones decision not to use them, for that matter. The only thing that bothers me is that the majority of condom users that I know really think that as long as they put that condom on they are totally safe, and subsequently they engage in higher risk behavior than they probably would if they new that they weren't as protected by the condom as they believed. In this regard the members of this board seem to be more educated on the subject than the general swinging population we run into at the clubs, at least most that have responded to threads here on the subject concede that the risk is reduced, more or less depending on which std we are talking about, not eliminated by condom use.

[Tia Vampire]

We had a couple dump us because we didn't want to be with them without condoms. I don't know their logic in thinking that a couple must be clean because they are dating each other or what, but there are alot of people out there with an std and don't even know it. We would never be with a couple without protection.

[Joshua]

Hey, Are you two (Mike and Dawn) currently without a renter? I certainly qualify on the virginity front, and all other terms sound quite agreeable!

-VirginM2Defile

Originally Posted by MikeandDawn

We never ask our M partners to use condoms. In fact, we have a "no condom" rule, but I think our situation is a bit different. We basically engage in poly relationships with only males. And we screen and check the prospectives thoroughly to find only virgins, as Dawn gets off on being a virgin's first. And we both really, really enjoy teaching them how to pleasure a woman. We'll just play at first, but when we're sure we've met a guy we want to invite into our relationship, we discovered a little trick to get a free HIV antibody test. We set the deal before him. We have a "mother-in-law" apartment above our garage. We offer to let him move in on these conditions:

1. He must get a $50,000 (or more) life insurance policy through our insurance agent. This requires the antibody test. When he brings us the declarations page for the policy, we know he passed. So far, all have.

2. For the time he's in a relationship with us, he must remain manogomous to us.

3. He must live in our apartment during the relationship. The rent is very reasonable ($200/mo), but he must take care of his own utilities.

4. No photography of him with us is allowed. We will allow him to photograph us, though.

In exchange, he's free to have sex with Dawn any time she agrees, whether I'm home or not. This helps keep him agreeable to condition #2. Dawn insists on her partners cumming inside her. It gets her off like crazy, and it fires me up, too. When I'm not home, Dawn will usually go up to his apartment to have sex, unless they want to bathe or shower together, then they use our bedroom. But on special occasions, like her birthday, we'll let him spend the night in our bed so we both can give her FULL attention. On his birthday, Dawn stays the whole night with him. On my birthday, I usually get tied to a chair and watch them. facelick When he's spent his load inside her, I get untied and we all three play. For just evening play, we'll use either bed. We'll also occasionally take two or three day trips. Most times, we'll take him with us, and share a hotel room with a king size bed.

[SW_PA_Couple]

Originally Posted by SCcpl40

some of the most common STDs:
Bacterial Vaginosis (BV)
Chlamydia
Genital Herpes/Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV)
Genital Warts/Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
Gonorrhea
STDs and HIV/AIDS
Syphilis
Trichomoniasis

It can happen, we know. Trichomoniasis; got that once. A man, apparently, does not always have symptoms. But J did. Had to take these huge pills for a month and they cause a taste as if you're sucking on a titanium lolly pop all day. We know that we can get STDs. Maybe we should be using condoms and dental dams. But we don't. We'll made a point to not blame others.

M

[tribbles]

Was the original question why some people go bareback?

We met a number of >50 yr old swingers and most say 'something' changed near the age of 50, and they lose their erections, even with viagra, so they decided to accept the risks.

[highlander]

I can understand why some folks might decide that they despite condoms so much they'd prefer either just engaging in manual play like massage or playing without a condom and exchanging test results to make sure they aren't exposed to diseases they don't already have.

The porn industry stars haven't been using condoms but _do_ have an extensive testing protocol(http://www.aim-med.org/). They've had a pretty low rate of conversion-so that route is a credible risk reduction method in my book. (note the test advertised in that site is sensitive after 14 days compared to 180 for what is most widely available). Basically their protocol is everyone gets tested every 30 days. Now HIV is pretty hard to transmit-about 1 in 500 for a woman that has intercourse with an infected partner-so the odds of someone
1) testing negative
2) having either not yet shown positive or converting is pretty small.

However, what I see is a lot of folks that are simply doing nothing--and selecting their partners from pools that are pretty high risk(i.e. folks that dabble in drugs that may put them in contact with IV users).

Just FYI, I tend to think the adult industry protocol test is a reasonable way to reduce the chance of AIDS infection. The risks those folks are running though include:
1) some new disease cropping up
2) a strain of HIV cropping up that doesn't show up on existing tests
3) folks converting

If you really want the ultimate in safety, I'd figure out some way to mix use of condoms and testing. A lot of folks are already doing oral sex bareback-and using condoms for intercourse. If those folks would focus their attention in clubs that tested for admission, they'd be reducing their risks compared to where they are now.

The big drawback I see for testing is cost. The AIM tests are $300 for a comprehensive set of tests. I'd guess that 4 time per year is the minimum for for any real benefit-and you need to have a pool of folks that are getting tested and sharing results to have any real benefit. There were some folks at the ACE of hearts here in Portland that were having events that required a recent test result for admission-but I'm not sure if it really caught on.