Condomless oral opinions

[RDfnd]

We're relatively new to this (2yrs) and have experienced very enjoyable soft swap defined play w/o oral with others so far. In our mutual desire to progress with new experiences we are very interested in hearing opinions regarding unprotected oral F to M. With the medical knowledge we possess and having read most information sources, in our opinion it seems apparent that it carries a significantly greater risk than M to F. Also understood is what seems to be a predominant attitude that protected oral is uncommon enough to potentially be a challenge to overcome.

[good times]

Well, if I am going to have to slap some Saran wrap on a woman in order to go down on her, I will just pass, thanks. With that in mind, if we are not going to use the condom equivelant for the man on the woman, then I do not see the point in the guy wearing a condom for a blow job.

You might have guessed, using the same logic, along with a large amount of research ourselves, we have come to the conclusion that for the type of stds we are likely to encounter in swinging (herpes, HPV, etc.), condoms provide very little real protection. Therefore, we do not require condoms for intercourse either.

[prettylady]

Never had oral with a woman, but giving a blowjob on a guy with a condom is just gross. Get yourself a rubber band and chew on that for a while. That tastes just hangs around for the rest of the day/night, and brushing your teeth does not fix it either.
From what I understand so far about swingers is that a vast majority are very careful with regards to stds. There are the freaks out there but with this group and most others I think you would be hard press to find someone who is going to infect you either by accident or on purpose.
I am going next tuesday for what I am guessing is going to be regular blood tests. I am having the full spectrum of infectious ickies looked for. (I say ickies because I can't spell the D word that would have fit there). I think it is the responcible thing to do. I would like to think that the active amougst us get tested on a regular basis.

I doubt I was any help here. but I have said what I wanted to say.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[ShellyM]

I will be honest. Now, frankly I don't have any experience at this, so don't get me wrong. But I don't see myself having sex with a man without him wearing a condom, I just don't. Even if I gave him a blow job, I would want him covered. But, thats just my opinion.

[Amanda69]

And the safe option. No glove no love.

goodtimes under what facts do you come to the conclusion that condoms provide you with very little real protection? You also seem to imply you might run into a limited amount of STD's in this lifestyle? What do you base this on?

[intuition897]

We've never used condoms/barriers for M or F oral. As GT said, what's the point? We've had numerous heated discussions on the risks of condomless oral, and I personaly feel, after reading all the STD scare pages, that while there is a definite risk involved, the risk is less with oral sex than with genital sex. By what percentage, no one seems to know...but it is agreed that it is less. I think the most important factors in maintaining sexual health are discriminate partner selection, use of condoms (every time) to reduce the highest risk which is vaginal or anal sex, and regular testing.

[JnCC]

I've never been asked to wear a condom as a prerequisite for receiving oral sex, but if I were...?????

I doubt there'd be anything left between my legs to blow.

Talk about a buzz-kill!

I'd probably just hand the woman the condom and tell her, "Here, unwrap this and chew on it for a while. I'll be in the other room watching Celebrity Golf"

[blondie77]

Personally, I find the idea of oral with condoms kind of insulting...like saying, "we like you enough to have sex with you, but not if we actually have to touch any part of your body".

There is a risk involved with having sex with anybody, whether it's vaginal, anal, or oral. It's a risk we all take. You have to decide if its a risk you're willing to take. My hubby and I don't use condoms for oral, but do for intercourse. Disease is a concern, but it's mostly a protection against pregnancy and HIV...and I know, condoms aren't foolproof. But if we're going to be in this lifestyle, its a risk we're willing to take. It's no riskier than when we were single and went to a bar to pick people up for sex. In fact, it might be a little safer, as swingers at the very least are aware of the risk and acknowledge it....because we swingers are (for the most part) knowledgable about sex, are avid believers in honesty and communication, etc.

If you are adament about using condoms for oral, you could have trouble finding a partner, but it's not impossible. I think there are plenty of swingers out there, each with their own ideas and boundries, and you're bound to be compatable with someone.

Just my two cents.

[tribbles]

Originally Posted by good times

Well, if I am going to have to slap some Saran wrap on a woman in order to go down on her, I will just pass, thanks. With that in mind, if we are not going to use the condom equivelant for the man on the woman, then I do not see the point in the guy wearing a condom for a blow job.

You might have guessed, using the same logic, along with a large amount of research ourselves, we have come to the conclusion that for the type of stds we are likely to encounter in swinging (herpes, HPV, etc.), condoms provide very little real protection. Therefore, we do not require condoms for intercourse either.

We have ended up at the same place (about a year), although with new friends we are willing to wear condoms for intercourse-half the females jump on bareback without asking till they are on, if it is ok. Yeah, they should ask but we are used to the reality most don't.

Once we realised we could get herpes from skin to skin (not penis only or vagina only), we decided we were still at risk for getting it with condoms, so why wear them?

HPV is so small it goes thru a laxtex condom and condoms are NOT considered protection from HPV--I don't have a cervix anymore so I'm safe from getting cancer from it.

Everything else, except HIV, we can take pills for if it ever happens.

We think we are at higher risk driving a car here in Calif so the risk of STD's is small to us. And he is V-safe and I've had a hysterectomy, so no pregnancy scares possible.

S

[good times]

Originally Posted by Amanda69

And the safe option. No glove no love.

Many people believe this; we don't, I have seen no reliable evidence that using a condom is significantly safer. Slightly safer, yes, but not significantly safer, we are still at risk. In fact, by choosing to play without condoms I find we are much more selective when choosing playmates than we might be if we were under the impression that we were effectively reducing our risk by using them, which is probably a good thing. We also tend to be much more observant when playing with others for STD's than most people I know.

Originally Posted by Amanda69

goodtimes under what facts do you come to the conclusion that condoms provide you with very little real protection? You also seem to imply you might run into a limited amount of STD's in this lifestyle? What do you base this on?

As I said, I came to this conclusion after reading as many actual studies and verifiable data I could get my hands on. The conclusion I came to was not that their was no risk of STD's in the lifestyle. But the ones that we are at risk of coming across like, Herpes, HPV, and various infections like Chlamydia, are either easily treated or not very effectively stopped by condoms. For example; Herpes is transferred by contact, if I touch an area on someone that is shedding the Herpes virus and then touch myself, lets say to put on a condom, I just transferred the Herpes to myself. Or lets say a person had active genital Herpes and he was stroking himself to get an erection, then with the same hand he rolls the condom on, now the virus is on the outside of the condom. I think the reason people feel condoms provide more protection than they do is that they read a lot more into the "condoms reduce the risk" propaganda than is really justified if you read the actual studies. My suspicion is that many people contract genital herpes when the have a cold sore and transfer it by hand to their genitals. An example of some typical unreliable information I read recently on one of the "STD information sights" was when they said "You can not contract Herpes from a toilet seat." Pretty odd statement when you consider that one of the most common places on the body to contract herpes is the butt cheeks.

One of the biggest concerns is HIV/AIDS, but the fact is, if you play the way we do, the chances of contracting Aids is much less than the chance we will get hit by lightning walking from the car to the club door. How do we reduce our risk? First of all, we are not in a high risk demographic group. We play with couples, preferably ones who have been together for some time. We avoid playing with singles. We never engage in anal sex with playmates. And we avoid people who could be drug users. By doing those things we feel we have reduced our risk to the point of being a non-issue based on the studies and statistics we have read. I will also admit that it is partly geographical too. We don't live in an area that is a hotbed of Aids activity, I have never personally met anyone with Aids. If Aids was more common here, we might have to rethink our risk of coming in contact with it.

I know you asked for "facts", but it has been a while since I spent hours researching this and don't have them handy. They are available with a little determined searching on the internet though. One of my pet peeves is that the actual research often doesn't back up the implications made by the propaganda you read on sights like the CDC sight. Therefore, to get to the bottom of it takes a little digging. On the up side, when I was able to find the data from the people who actually study these things, I was actually relieved to find out that the risks, for me, aren't as high as the scare tactics of those with an agenda (In most cases. trying to receive continued funding) would have us believe.

Bottom line, read all you can find on the subject then decide for yourself. We, like most others, will respect your choice and use condoms if we want to play with you and that is what you have decided.

[RDfnd]

Hi good times,
Some simple and interesting information on Herpes. Both HSV-1 & HSV-2. Don't know if you've read this.
http://www.herpes.com/genitalinfo.shtml

[graygo98]

The main issues have been pretty thoroughly hashed out above and elsewhere on this board. I would like to comment on the quote below, which offers a somewhat new spin:

in our opinion it (F to M) seems apparent that it carries a significantly greater risk than M to F

Could be wrong, but this doesn't make sense to me. On one of the other threads one of the contributors told us that she had become infected with HSV after oral sex with her husband, who had a cold sore. I can't imagine any disease that can be transferred by oral-genital contact that wouldn't work either way in the right circumstances: M to F, or F to M.

So if one is risky, both are. If condoms are a must, so is a dam. Our own view would be toward the Good Times end of the spectrum.

[good times]

Originally Posted by RDfnd

Hi good times,
Some simple and interesting information on Herpes. Both HSV-1 & HSV-2. Don't know if you've read this.
http://www.herpes.com/genitalinfo.shtml

Thanks, I hadn't read that one. That is a pretty good summary, I liked that they included the following;

"Auto-inoculation: An infected individual can spread the virus to other parts of his or her body by touching an area shedding virus and then touching, scratching, or rubbing another susceptible part of the body. Towels are especially conducive to this."

That is something the proponents of the "condoms reduce the risk" statement often leave out.

[RDfnd]

Transmission of pathogens that are able to be spread by skin contact is obviously similar. Perhaps the risk difference could be attributed to pathogens present in pre- ejaculate and ejaculate.

[meow906]

Personally, I gag at the taste of condom and its lubricants. I hate it, so I definitely prefer the man not to wear one. However, it be extremely rare that I would give oral to a guy other than my hubby without a condom, unless we have know the person really well for a long time We are a selective couple, but we still use the protection. It's better to be safe than sorry!

-Krystal