How can you be spontanious when you are so worried about so many things?

[Babysteps]

After a significant amount of reading( like WOW, ALOT of forums and threads!!), I have some questions. A major concern of mine is STD's, and I read most of the posts on this topic. What I am getting out of it is this.... everyone has their " dos and don'ts list", some no kissing, some no oral,( or use dental dam or saran), some use condoms, some don't ( like they figure the risk isn't very significant), some soft swap and return to their SO for the actual " act ". Some remain within a close circle of good friends. Keeping all of this in mind, HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY COME TO A PLACE IN YOUR HEAD WHERE YOU CAN RELAX, AND GET THE UTMOST OUT OF THE EXPERIENCE, WHEN YOU HAVE ALL OF THIS GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD??? To tell you the truth, and even though it would be for MY well being as much as HIS, if a partner ever approached me with the saran wrap ( or whatever ),( God help me, I don't know how to say this!)......to me it just wouldn't be the same at all, there would be no state of arrousal happening for me if I knew that we needed to take these extreme precautions. Way too complicated, when the acts SHOULD be so SPONTANEOUS and UNINHIBITED! The potential risks really inhibit me

I hope this made sense

[Edison Carter]

Okay, here's what works for me. 1. We view this as a grownup activity that is fun, but needs a serious mindset. 2. We do get tested, as our friends do, regularly. 3. Always use good condoms of great quality. Simply put: trust noone, know your partners and get tested.

[Chicup]

I'd say almost all swinging is oral sex with no condom and intercourse with a condom. Just like the dating world.

Risks are about the same as the dating world too. So far after 6 years of swinging we haven't had any issues, but you have to find your own happy place in all this.

[singleagain]

The following is pretty boring reading...but every swinger should know the real risks...

At the end of 2003, an estimated 1,039,000 to 1,185,000 persons in the United States were living with HIV/AIDS, with 24-27% undiagnosed and unaware of their HIV infection...reported by Glynn M, Rhodes P. Estimated HIV prevalence in the United States at the end of 2003. National HIV Prevention Conference; June 2005; Atlanta. Abstract 595.

In 2004, the estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS in the United States was 42,514. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases totaled 42,466 with 31,024 cases in males and 11,442 cases in females. Also in 2004, there were 48 AIDS cases estimated in children under age 13.

The cumulative (the total number of aids cases reported since the beginning of the epidemic) estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS through 2004 in the United States is 944,305. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases total 934,862 with 756,399 cases in males and 178,463 cases in females. Through the same time period, 9,443 AIDS cases were estimated in children under age 13. Go to http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/survei...sic.htm#hivest for more information.

My thoughts...The aids epidemic started sometime in the early 80's. Two things to note:

1 - While it is not always easy to know when a person has full blown aids it is fairly common place to know who does and avoid contact with them.

2 - It is never visible to the human eye when a person is HIV positive. The only real way to know if another person is HIV positive is to ask and hope they will give you the truthful answer.

There is no best way to avoid transmission of the HIV or AIDs virus according to most everything I have read. So, what's a swinger to do. Well for me I considered the risk in terms of percentage. Since I only have sex with people in the United States I looked at the risk in this country. And since I only have sex with people in North Carolina primarily, the risk may be even lower that I would have sex with anyone infected. Here are the numbers:

Population of the United States is 281,421,906. Total number of HIV invections and Aids Cases combined in the US is about 2,000,000. This means that the total percentage of infections is about .71% or less than 1% of the total population of the US. This last year I had sex with 3 different partners, none of which were prostitutes, who are one of the high risk groups. Now if I were in Vegas and had a 99% chance of winning my bet, I would probably bet the farm using those odds.

Sexually transmitted diseases are a real problem. I think its imperative that everything possible should be done to eradicate them. Will we ever be able to do that? Probably not. Does that mean that we should stop having sex? Absolutely not! There are two really good prophylatics: Knowledge and Condoms. Neither are perfect.

The chances of getting hit by a bus while crossing the street in New York City (population in the millions) are much greater than getting hit by a bus in Pocomoke, NC (a real place, population 3). But in both of those communities people cross the street every day. If there is a chance of getting hit by a bus why do people cross the street? Well to get to the other side of course. And that's the same basic reason why people have sex. So, ask questions and use condoms. You'll be as safe as one of the millions of people who cross the street in NYC everyday.

Now I am not an expert...but I do have a little common sense. So, take this post with the intention it is given. Enjoy life. Have fun. You only go around once.

[singleagain]

Oh, I just noticed, you are in Canada. But that could mean that the risk for you is even lower, eh?

[Babysteps]

Thank you everyone for your input!

[Babysteps]

Originally Posted by singleagain

Oh, I just noticed, you are in Canada. But that could mean that the risk for you is even lower, eh?

And I just noticed the " EH "......lol.....VERY FUNNY!

[Mr. Truelove]

But do they have any statistics on the transmission of various STDs in the case of unprotected oral, protected oral, unprotected intercourse, and protected intercourse?

I am under the impression that if you would have intercourse with a HIV positive person that doesn't mean you are 100% going to get it. Actual statistics would be nice.

Originally Posted by singleagain

The following is pretty boring reading...but every swinger should know the real risks...

At the end of 2003, an estimated 1,039,000 to 1,185,000 persons in the United States were living with HIV/AIDS, with 24-27% undiagnosed and unaware of their HIV infection...reported by Glynn M, Rhodes P. Estimated HIV prevalence in the United States at the end of 2003. National HIV Prevention Conference; June 2005; Atlanta. Abstract 595.

In 2004, the estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS in the United States was 42,514. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases totaled 42,466 with 31,024 cases in males and 11,442 cases in females. Also in 2004, there were 48 AIDS cases estimated in children under age 13.

The cumulative (the total number of aids cases reported since the beginning of the epidemic) estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS through 2004 in the United States is 944,305. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases total 934,862 with 756,399 cases in males and 178,463 cases in females. Through the same time period, 9,443 AIDS cases were estimated in children under age 13. Go to http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/survei...sic.htm#hivest for more information.

My thoughts...The aids epidemic started sometime in the early 80's. Two things to note:

1 - While it is not always easy to know when a person has full blown aids it is fairly common place to know who does and avoid contact with them.

2 - It is never visible to the human eye when a person is HIV positive. The only real way to know if another person is HIV positive is to ask and hope they will give you the truthful answer.

There is no best way to avoid transmission of the HIV or AIDs virus according to most everything I have read. So, what's a swinger to do. Well for me I considered the risk in terms of percentage. Since I only have sex with people in the United States I looked at the risk in this country. And since I only have sex with people in North Carolina primarily, the risk may be even lower that I would have sex with anyone infected. Here are the numbers:

Population of the United States is 281,421,906. Total number of HIV invections and Aids Cases combined in the US is about 2,000,000. This means that the total percentage of infections is about .71% or less than 1% of the total population of the US. This last year I had sex with 3 different partners, none of which were prostitutes, who are one of the high risk groups. Now if I were in Vegas and had a 99% chance of winning my bet, I would probably bet the farm using those odds.

Sexually transmitted diseases are a real problem. I think its imperative that everything possible should be done to eradicate them. Will we ever be able to do that? Probably not. Does that mean that we should stop having sex? Absolutely not! There are two really good prophylatics: Knowledge and Condoms. Neither are perfect.

The chances of getting hit by a bus while crossing the street in New York City (population in the millions) are much greater than getting hit by a bus in Pocomoke, NC (a real place, population 3). But in both of those communities people cross the street every day. If there is a chance of getting hit by a bus why do people cross the street? Well to get to the other side of course. And that's the same basic reason why people have sex. So, ask questions and use condoms. You'll be as safe as one of the millions of people who cross the street in NYC everyday.

Now I am not an expert...but I do have a little common sense. So, take this post with the intention it is given. Enjoy life. Have fun. You only go around once.

[singleagain]

Originally Posted by Mr. Truelove

But do they have any statistics on the transmission of various STDs in the case of unprotected oral, protected oral, unprotected intercourse, and protected intercourse?

I am under the impression that if you would have intercourse with a HIV positive person that doesn't mean you are 100% going to get it. Actual statistics would be nice.

I have not been able to find stats on transmission rates during unprotected sex of any kind. My doctor (a very understanding female) and I talked about this same subject. She explained that the methodology for tranmission for most std's is by body fluids. This can be saliva, mucus, blood, sweat or ejaculate. Since it would be highly unethical to perform a study where non-infected persons had sex with infected persons to determine the incidence of infections transmitted, it's likely that no one has ever done such a study. Would you like to be the first to try?

My Doctor explained that if the method of transmission is known, then the method of protection (if any is available) can usually be determined. She explained that if an HIV positive woman performed oral sex on a man who was wearing a condom and the man then had vaginal sex with another woman who is un-infected he could prossibly transfer HIV by the saliva left on the part of his penis left unprotected even if he did change condoms. How likely is it that could happen? No one knows.

The purpose of quoting the statics was not to cause people to think that un-protected sex is not highly risky. It is! However, protected (use of a condom, dental dam, etc.) sex is also still risky. The best possible way to enjoy multiple sex partners is prophylactic protection and truthful communication. This will lower the risk considerably.

[Mr. Truelove]

I appreciate the reply. STDs are scarey and any additional information is always appreciated.

As for the volunteering for the study. I'll pass. However, I often wonder about where they get the information that they do have. Some of it seems hard to obtain without human sources. heh

[jandg]

Try not to overthink the problem. It's real easy to get wrapped around the axle of "facts" and "statistics", to the point where you lose all of the enjoyment of what you are trying to do. Relax, take everything with a grain of salt, and enjoy the moment.

[Amanda69]

Simple philosophy "Have fun and play safe." I would rather spend some time thinking about it than a "remaining" life time regretting it.

[good times]

Originally Posted by Mr. Truelove

But do they have any statistics on the transmission of various STDs in the case of unprotected oral, protected oral, unprotected intercourse, and protected intercourse?

I am under the impression that if you would have intercourse with a HIV positive person that doesn't mean you are 100% going to get it. Actual statistics would be nice.

For a woman the probability of HIV transmission per episode of consensual sexual contact with an infected male source is estimated to be about 0.1% (1 in 1000) through vaginal intercourse. For uninfected men who have vaginal intercourse with an HIV positive woman, the transmission probability per episode is estimated at about .03%. Of course these numbers vary a lot depending on which report you read and what the writers agenda is, but most reports cite a study done with monogamous couples where one was HIV positive and the other was not as the basis of these estimates.

If you want to do a little reading on this, just google "probability of HIV transmission per exposure".