What is it with couples who require condoms for penetration but not for oral?

[lcjtsd]

This is the wife writing. I am venting and ranting so please no flaming, just honest answers.

As many of you know from our previous posts, we don't do what we refer to as "Double Standard" sex. Our definition of this is doing oral unprotected but insisting on condoms for intercourse.

In the past four years, we have had an ad on a few sites and have went to a few clubs, all in the hopes of meeting other couples. In all this time, we finally met one (1) couple (about 6 months ago) who was from out of town and we had a great time. Unfortunately, they are from out of town and it was a one time thing for us.

Why is it that so many couples have no problem with taking the risk of catching something by doing oral unprotected but insist on covering up for the rest? Come on, here I am with a man I just met, putting his uncovered dick in my mouth, taking the risk of catching something, in my mouth, and you want to use a condom to put it in my coochie? Or how about my hubby with your wife. You want him to lick your bare coochie, taking the risk of catching something but then tell him to cover up to put it in? WTF!!!!

The reason for all this is that we give up. We're tired of all this work, answering emails from people who EMAIL US and don't take the time to actually read our profile. (Yes, we did state that we don't like condoms are are looking for other who feel the same).

If you're that afraid of catching something, they do have lifesize dolls for both men and women. (We saw them on the "Real Sex" series). This way, you know that you are doing 100% safe sex!

I'm sorry but, to me, putting a mans dick in my mouth is a lot more personal than having it in my coochie.

I think everyone here will agree that YES, you can catch a STD in your mouth and throat from oral sex. The risk may or may not be less, however the risk is still there.

So ladies, why the paranoia about no condom for intercourse after you have had a strange mans dick in your mouth unprotected? (Other than the pregnancy issue). I say ladies here specifically as I think most men would jump at the opportunity to do it uncovered. LOL

Ok, that's my vent. Once again, please no flaming. I look forward to reading your honest answers.

Mrs. LCJTSD
(Hubby feels the same way too)

[Alura]

Actually, there is a lot less risk of catching a disease with oral sex than with vaginal sex. The mouth and stomach are filled with powerful chemicals intended to protect the body from invading organisms. The AIDS virus, in particular, is very fragile and cannot survive stomach acid. The vagina does not have such protection. If it did, those chemicals would kill sperm, too, and we'd no longer have people.

Still, in our opinion, we can be much safer when having sex with other couples by choosing those couples carefully. If you don't have sex with someone who has an STD, you won't get an STD. The more partners you have, the more likely you are to get an STD.

That's why we like long-term friendships with our play partners and have no interest in going to clubs.

The negative part is that in twenty-five years we've only played with five couples. We'll take quality over quantity anytime.

Mr. Alura

[intuition897]

Like Alura, Mr. intuition and I have had relatively few partners, as we prefer qulaity over quantity, too. We seek out partners who are equally paranoid about STDs; it usually means they're "clean" and want to stay that way.

As a former dental assistant, I'd like to elaborate on Al's statement about the chances of catching an STD orally. He's right: the healthy human mouth is actually armed with a few mechanisms that protect it from foreign potentially harmful "bugs". Digestion actually begins in the mouth with an enzyme called salivary amylase which begins to break substances down in the mouth. Depending on the hardiness of the organism, this may or may not kill some or all of it. Also present in saliva is a protein called mucin, which encapsulates loose bacteria, rendering it harmless until it can be swallowed and destroyed in the stomach. There are, of course, many types of bacteria that can and do get past the mouth's line of defense, but it's not the most effective way to catch something.

However...

I was only talking about a very healthy mouth. If your gums bleed when you floss or brush, you're at risk. Any of you who have heart disease, diabetes, heart valve disorders, have had rheumatic fever, etc. are usually required to take a prophylactic antibiotic before you get your dental cleaning, because more often than not, the cleaning does compromise the integrity of the gum tissue, even if your gums are otherwise healthy. For people who have these conditions, among others, they are at risk if the bacteria in the mouth make their way into the blood stream. If you have gingivitis to any degree, your gums are compromised all the time, leaving a wide open pathway into your bloodstream. Now, how large a risk this is, I don't know. I don't have the numbers for that. But it is a conceivable risk.

So there are now two reasons why swingers should have the healthiest mouths of anyone:
1) because it helps prevent the contraction and spread of disease, and
2) because it's a helluva lot easier to get a date if your mouth doesn't smell like something crawled in between your remaining teeth and died.

If you DO have gingivitis, and don't plan on using condoms/dental dams, do NOT brush or floss just before a date as this will damage the delicate tissue even more. Instead, just use a soft cloth and a bit of toothpaste to gently polish the crowns of your teeth, avoiding the gums. Or use one of those pre-packaged slip-on finger brushes (I think Colgate or Crest makes them). Also chewing gum promotes the production of saliva (helps wash away and neutralize bacteria). Another good thing is a good antibacterial mouthwash like Listerine, before and after oral contact. Just be careful to not swish TOO soon before giving oral; Listerine likely isn't too comfortable on the genitals! Although I've heard good things about minty stuff like Scope...

[lcjtsd]

34 views so far and only one reply. Hmmmm.

Mr. Alura, I agree. One must choose couples carefully. We look for other couples around our age, kids the same age etc. The HIV thing, well, we feel that the couples who would fit what we are looking for would make this a non-issue. Call us crazy on this one but the odds are in our favor.

Also, like you, we prefer quality over quantity. I think it would be great to find one or two couples to get together with on a somewhat regular basis. We're not weekend warriors. We get the itch to play about every 6-8 months and are tested after each encounter.

Thanks for your reply and hopefully there will be more.

LCJTSD

[lcjtsd]

Intuition897, thank you for your reply. I agree that the risk is less with oral, your post shows that there is still a risk. Come on, how many people have a "very healthy" mouth? Not many. Yes, we too prefer good oral hygiene, but how many can claim to heve "very healthy" teeth and gums?

I apologize for getting graphic here but it seems that people keep refering to the semen when talking about the risk. Is it not true that in men most STD's are in the urethra? So a woman doing oral who says "Keep that cum away from me!" is under a false idea of safe as she has already sucked any potential STD right into her mouth? (Kinda takes all the fun out of the experience when you think about it.)

With men, the same potential exists with doing unprotected oral on a woman. He is licking the exact spot where the STD resides.

Ladies, is the attitude that it's OK to get and STD in your mouth but not in your coochie?

Yes, We want to know. We have been talking about giving up on this whole thing due to this issue.

Mrs. LCJTSD

[Thrax]

Fact-gathering nerd that I am, I must say that intuition897, your knowledge of oral health and well-being is teh hawtness!

facelick

Thrax

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Thrax

Fact-gathering nerd that I am, I must say that intuition897, your knowledge of oral health and well-being is teh hawtness!

facelick

Thrax

I, too, am a wellspring of useless facts and information. Love trivia. Being able to absorb information like this is my Rainman-esque superpower. Although I have to admit I had to look up the word 'mucin' again, as I knew what it was, but forgot its name. It never ocurred to me that this knowledge would come in handy in a swinging context lol

[The Fuse]

intuition897, thanks for the great information! I am now newly inspired to floss more regularly!

[lott]

icjtsd, I agree with everything you're stating it's just that you have to remember A LOT of people don't have the discipline to look past the enjoyment of having of sex to see what can happen if everything doesn't go according to what they planned. They tend to see only the good and think that the bad can't happen to them or if it does happen they can handle it.

This seems to be exceptionally true for older people who are so used to having sex with each other that they tend to forget that other people might not have the same views as them even though they say they do and may take chances once and a while that can harm them and bring it back to you.

REMEMBER IT ONLY TAKES ONE TIME FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN THAT CAN ALTER YOUR LIFE OR AT LEAST MAKE IT HARDER THAN IT ALREADY IS SO BEING PREPARED CAN KEEP YOUR LIFE FROM GETTING WORSE WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKE IT BETTER BECAUSE YOU CAN ENJOY WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITHOUT WORRYING.

[VegasLee]

Ok, you might take this as a flame but to be honest, I am not sure what your asking for here. You already know that many will do oral without condoms but insist on them for anything else.

I also don't understand since you are well aware that many only play that way. It is their choice and theirs to make.

You say you might give this all up because of the choices others make? Why would you do that? Why not just ask people right up front that you desire to play with what their rules are and they are acceptable to you then play with them, if not you move on to the next ones. Why get upset over rules that other people have set up for theirself?

The main thought of the lifestyle is to do what works for you as long as it does not hurt others and not being forced on others. You have that choice as others do. There is many people out there that will play without condoms.

We feel online is a waste of time. To many posers and people that "online swingers". It is their fantasy but they are never going to show up and never going to do it. That is why we go where the swingers are, to swingers clubs. You can find people there that will fit right into what your looking for. Maybe not every night but the chances are much better then playing online.

Good luck to you and hope you don't quit because of the choices of others.

[Chicup]

We play bareback with one couple we have known for years, who we trust and who trusts us, and are our 'best' friends beyond swinging.

All others we use condoms on for sex, and yes oral is without.

This is the level of risk we are willing to take, and it seems to be the swinger norm. If this doesn't fit your tastes, why be mad at everyone else when it is your desires which are not fitting the norm?

We don't like sex with condoms nearly as much as sex without, but it would never be a deal breaker for us to use them. NOT using them for sex would be far more of a deal breaker.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by lcjtsd

I agree that the risk is less with oral

There you go...

People make the choices they make for themselves; not for you. It is not our way of being selfish or rude - it is our way of being as safe as we can (or at least feeling as safe as we can). When you have rules that are outside of the norm, you limit yourself. That is a decision you have to make. But it is unrealistic to expect the community of swingers as a whole to adjust their comfort zones to accomodate you.

Spoomonkey

[lcjtsd]

Hi VegasLee! Good to hear from you. We still haven't made it to the Red Rooster yet. We live way NW, almost to the turnoff to Mt. Charleston. Don't get to the other side of town that much.

To amswer your question on why we would give up is that it's too much work and seems like a waste of time. From other postings on this board, there seems to be quite a few who belivee the way we do but where are they??? We're not upset at rules per se (even though some seem to have too many LOL) it's just that we can't seem to find the ones who have the same as ours (just have fun!). I guess the online thing is a bunch of BS. We stated right in our ad what our preference is, we would get emails from other couples, and when we replied we ould usuaslly get a response from the wife stating that "We always use condoms". WTF Don't they actually read the profiles?

We have decided that clubs are what we will start using to find others so we haven't given up completely, just our approach will be different. It's a shame though. We don't have a lot of time with our own business and kids to get out as often as we would like. The online sites seemed like a prefect solution.

Spoomonkey, you said that "it is our way of being as safe as we can (or at least feeling as safe as we can". Exactly, a "feeling" of being safe. We feel that with unprotected oral, this is a false feeling as if anyone had anything, you just caught it so what is the condom going to do? As in our previous post, is it OK to catch something in your mouth but not on your genitals?

With the issue of what we refer to as Double Standard sex, well, I guess we just don't understand it and never will. This issue really leaves us perplexed.

LCJTSD

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by lcjtsd

With the issue of what we refer to as Double Standard sex, well, I guess we just don't understand it and never will. This issue really leaves us perplexed.

It is hardly a double standard. I mean - if it is more likely that you will catch an STD through genital contact than through oral, then each risk must be considered individually. You have said yourself that one is riskier than the other.

Maybe you could call it standard and a half?

The bottom line is - some folks lessen the risk - some folks shrug off the risk. And we all only have to play with folks with whom we are comfortable.

Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

If you want to get right down to brass tacks, condoms are not exactly a surefire way to keep from contracting a disease. A condom on a penis only means that you won't be catching anything from the penis itself, or seminal fluid. Same with dental dams; they only cover a certain percentage of skin. That leaves the whole rest of your partner's genital region to worry about. Genital warts, herpes, syphilis...these don't require contact with JUST penises and vaginas, although they are the highest risk body parts.

I'd suggest the best way to avoid contracting anything is to choose quality over quantity and choose your partners very carefully. As well as using condoms.