Safe Sex Freakout!!!

[CuteCouple]

Hi guys,

My bf and I are pretty new to the lifestyle. To date we've had a few threesomes and a few adventures with 2 couples. When we made the decision to get into the lifestyle, we both agreed that safe sex was a priority to us. We decided that all sex, anal and vaginal as well as oral sex would be with protection. Maybe we are being paranoid but the last thing I want is to end up with AIDS because I wanted a little extra fun, you know what I mean?

Ok, here's the story... Last night we met this couple, everything looked great, we went out to dinner then to a local strip bar and had fun and came back to our place. We settled in and had a few drinks. After a bit we decided to go upstairs and we started to get into things with each other's partners. Things were getting pretty heavy and my bf wanted to go down on the other woman so he got out the dental dams and was ready to go. The woman was so pissed and insulted she got dressed, grabbed her hubby and left... leaving me and my bf in total shock.

We were very straight with them and told them safe sex was of the hightest priority to us, that we wouldn't risk anything for this lifestyle and they seemed alright with everything...

I guess my question is, did we somehow do something wrong? Are we too uptight? What gives? Cause I just don't get it, I wouldn't have a problem with a man using a dental dam with me cause in this day and age we all have to look after each other, I think anyway...

Thanks in advace for your replies.

Angie

[Flori_DAMAN]

Maybe she never heard of dental dams before. Seems a bit irrational to just up and leave. Maybe she thought your hubby was protecting himself from some nasty smell or taste by using kitchen paper....lmao...sorry but this is possible.
It does not seem reasonable for someone to just get pissed off because there playmate chooses to use protection. Usually people are angered because of a reason though. I would bet she misunderstood and maybe was ignorant of dental dams in the first place.
I have never seen anyone actually use a dental dam myself and I have been around the block a few times.
To me, using a dental dam is comparable to wearing a helmet while driving a car (I actaually know a man that does this). It may avoid an injury once in a while if a milion or so people do it but it seems incredibly over protective to me. But thats just an opinion, and like a nose, everyone has one. John

You did nothing wrong. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

Especially since, all of you knew what was expected by each other in the FIRST place, while communicating your rules with them!

If this female of the other couple felt uncomfortable by this "action", then she should've said something about it BEFORE, or even "during" this sexual session. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/confused.gif

Have you two been in contact with them since then? Have you both talked about this with them yet? Communication should always be openminded between all involved...May be harder for some, then others. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/frown.gif

If this couple, or ANY other couple and or single(s) can't respect your wishes, then they're not for you, and it's their loss! http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I'm glad that you both stuck by what is very important to both of you and your relationship! Don't EVER have to feel obligated in ANY way by others to change, unless it's comfortable enough for the BOTH of you as well... http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

Hope everything works out for all of you! Good luck and keep us posted. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/smile.gif


CyberWife

[This message has been edited by CyberMWCouple (edited 07-30-2001).]

[CuteCouple]

John-As for offending odors...LMAO well, she indicated she knew what they were but man was she pissed!!! My jaw was on the floor as I watched her get dressed and storm out of my bedroom! As I mentioned, maybe it's us being uptight but when we decided to get into this lifestyle one of our very few rules is that it must be safe sex and that included oral. My bf is likely a little more "strict" than me as I am the first woman he's ever had unprotected sex with and the second that he had oral with. The research has me convinced that I don't really want to engage in unprotected oral sex because really it is unnecessary. If she didn't want to use the dam and she really wanted oral... her hubby would have been willing to do the job, I'm sure. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

We have had a few threesomes and the men never objected to using a condom for oral, I just don't get it! Geez, one of our threesomes was with my bf's brother and we used condoms for sex and oral and we know where he's been!!!! If I'm not gonna have unprotected sex or oral with family I'm not going to with people I really don't know everything about!! http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gifI'm flabergasted!!

CyberWife- We haven't talked to them since last night (that's when this happened) and I'm not sure if we should try phoning or not. I thought of sending them an email apologizing for the situation but really, I don't think we need to apologize. This was our boundary and she knew it beforehand and I'm not going to change the rules as I go along to suit other people. That in the long run will destroy my relationship.

The other couple we played with didn't even want to use condoms for sex for COL!!! With two disasters under our belts we are questioning our wanting to be part of this lifestyle... but we'll likely try again

http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Angie

[JustAskJulie]

First off, I don't really think you can equate acceptance of using a condom for oral to the acceptance of using a dental dam for oral. Why? Because one is more common than others. As has been mentioned on here before by active swingers, dental dams are rarely seen.

When you first discussed your safe-sex only policy with them did you specifically discuss dental dams? If not, it is very logical that the thought never crossed her mind and she assumed you just meant oral sex on the guys. It is much more common for disease to be spread in that way than by a guy performing oral on a woman.

Please don't think I'm saying this was your fault, just that maybe there was some miscommunication here from the beginning and what you thought was made clear wasn't.

Now if on the other hand you had made the dental damn concept clear up front when you discussed safe -sex. Then I think it was very unreasonable of this woman to get as upset as she did, and you would be correct if she wanted oral without protection her husband could have provided.

Question: Do you require the other guys to use a dental damn when performing oral on you? Just curious.

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

[CuteCouple]

Julie- I've given your post a whole lot of thought before reposting as I am intrigued that it is seemes that my bf and I are suddenly becoming the "bad guys" because we want to protect ourselves from not only AIDS but syhillis, gonnoreah, herpes, ect.... Whether or not that it's as common or not is really not the issue, gd it should be!! I don't see what the big deal is, it's only a thin sheet of latex that gets placed over the vagina, no more than wearing a condom and yes, I want the other men to use dams on me as well because they should be concerned about the spread of disease themselves. If we were all behaving responsibly then AIDS wouldn't be killing so many people and I'm certainly not going to let it kill me or my bf because of a stupid piece of latex! If we can't find a couple who is interested in safe sex as we are then we will just have to keep doing it with each other... darn, such is life!!!!

Yes, it is my partly my fault to think "safe sex" meant condoms for the guys and dams for the girls, sorry I wasn't aware that people were so ignorant and had such a disregard for their own health but she didn't have to throw a hissy fit and leave. It was about safe sex, not about her cleanliness, odour, or whatever and my bf tried to explain that to her. In the future I'll make sure to spell it out in real big letters before there is even a meeting, so that nobody wastes their time... especially the people who are going around getting it on, having oral, anal ect... and not even bothering with protection!!!

My bf doesn't want to eat pussy raw and as I mentioned I am the second and hopefully last that he will have oral without protection, and that's his choice and especially after he heard that this woman had several parters, no mention of condoms, and men cuming in her mouth at a recent party... In addition, he doesn't want me exposing myself to disease by having unprotected oral, so why would he? Maybe the risks aren't the same as having sex or anal but read the facts, there is a risk and we should be respected in our desire to protect ourselves...so maybe we are UPTIGHT but I think we're being damn smart and in the long run, we'll take our piece of latex and at least still be alive...or without any other disgusting diseases.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by CuteCouple:
Julie- I've given your post a whole lot of thought before reposting as I am intrigued that it is seemes that my bf and I are suddenly becoming the "bad guys" because we want to protect ourselves...

CuteCouple:

NO ONE is accusing you of being the bad guys here. I think Julie's point was quite clear, that perhaps there were some assumptions made by the other couple that 'safe sex' meant condoms for intercourse only. It's interpreted to mean just that by the vast majority of swingers, and most likely including the couple you were with last night.

We realize last night is still fresh on your minds, but don't let it cloud your judgement on what others are saying to you in here. Look through the post archives on this site and you'll see one word being repeated over and over. COMMUNICATION. It's key in forming and maintaining a successful swinging relationship with another couple or single.

Dan

[MiCpl]

CuteCouple,

We have to wonder that with your desire for only safe sex and understandable desire to avoid any possibilities of disease why you would even swing with these people at all if you know they don't use condoms on a regular basis? Keep in mind that no matter what you use to protect yourself it is not going to be 100% effective and there is still risk involved. It would seem to me that you would take that extra precaution of choosing your swing partners more selectively and sticking only to those who have your same desire for safe sex.

As far as what Julie said, we'd have to agree with CyberMWCouple, I think you took what she said too personally when she was only trying to get you to see things from both sides. Maybe in the future you will be more clear with those you wish to swing with on your desires. All you have to do is read through the posts here to see that there are plenty of swingers who have no clue what a dental dam is or at the least have never seen one used. We've been to plenty of swinger parties and been swinging for close to 5 years and while we know what a dental dam is and have seen them in stores, have yet to see one used.

S&J

[LIZA]

Condoms for INTERCOURSE seem to be very common and accepted, if you are a couple that engages in intercourse with others (we are not)
As far as oral, I have never seen dental dams OR condoms used for oral sex in 4 + years. I don't consider myself an ignorant woman or an excessive risk-taker.
But if you insist on a latex covering of the genitals for men and women at all times, MOST in this lifestyle will consider you a bit fanatical!

[JustAskJulie]

I think you misunderstood my post, I was in no way trying to make you out to be the bad guys. Just trying to point out what may or may not have been done on your end that may have caused the problem to begin with.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take whatever precautions you feel necessary to be comfortable. However, you do need to look at things from the other persons perspective as well and consider your responsibility rather than assume that what you believe or think is what everyone else believes or thinks. If you weren't clear up front about using dental dams then you can't expect them to assume that you will be, because they are very rarely used in this lifestyle.

Each person/ couple has to decide what they want/ need to do to feel comfortable swinging and being safe. Liza and her hubby only soft-swing as their way of cutting down their risk, you choose to use protection at any contact. Whatever your rules are, it is YOUR responsibility to make those clear to the other parties you are swinging with, it is NOT their responsibility to figure out your rules.

Yes, I agree that it was a bit of an overreaction for her to get up and walk out, BUT how would you react if someone came in wearing rubber gloves and said I can't touch you without these, I'm afraid I might put my fingers in my mouth and spread some disease from you to me? To many people it's the same thing because they don't use dental dams and don't see the need for them.

Anyone who chooses to enter this lifestyle chooses to take on a certain amount of risks, how much risk is completely up to them. That's a decision each person must make and you can't condem other people because they didn't make the same decision you made.

So no, you aren't the bad guy here, but neither are they. It takes two to tango and there was a miscommunication here that involved all of you. However, I don't think that you can expect other swingers to ask if you mean to include dental dams for oral sex when you tell them you only do safe sex even in regards to oral, that's something you'll have to make clear to them.

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

[CuteCouple]

Hmm... fanatical... seems bizare to be called that to me because even before I became involved with my bf I used condoms for oral to avoid exposing myself to disease, which last time I checked, giving oral to a man is a high risk behaviour. I have a tongue ring making this an even more higher risk. My bf, before meeting me, never in his 25 years of living ever had unprotected sex!!

After reading the replies and seeing the negative attitudes reflected on safe sex practices that aren't unresonable I am questioning being in this lifestyle. Oral sex is dangerous and why play with fire if you don't have to is the question I keep asking and nobody bothers to answer... the only reply is, well that's not a common thing, or we don't see that. Do you guys think it's alright for gay men to go around giving blow jobs without protection, just curious? Or is there a double standard here because from the reading I have done, it is always recomended that gay men use condoms for oral.

Yes, communication is the key and that we failed at, sadly and in the future I will spell it out in CAPS. As I mentioned, these negative attitudes towards safe sex have me thinking, I definately won't be attending any swing parties because there is no way I'll have oral without protection and neither will my bf. As for other couples, maybe we should just make a no oral sex rule, that would likely be easier... but then again, I bet you guys will have plenty to say about that one too...

I understand that not everybody is as "fanatical" as us and I respect that. If you guys want to have unprotected oral, that's purely your decision and your risk. You have to live with the consequenses of your actions as do we. After we come home from and adventure, my bf and I want to know that we haven't exposed ourselves openly to disease and I don't think that's wrong even if it's not "common" in the lifestyle.

I've never been comfortable with unprotected oral and I'm not now that I have numerous sex partners. It is sad that our views of safety are likely going to limit us, but hey, at least I will have a clear mind. The guys we've had threesomes with had no problems wearing condoms for oral! So maybe it's just the "swinger" attitude to not use protection for oral, it seems that way from where I'm sitting.

As for playing with a couple with whom I don't know what their condom using status is, you never really know what they are doing when you aren't there, so it's always better to be safe then sorry. Even if they say they use condoms, what does it matter if the woman has men cumming in her mouth?? Tell me, please?? Cum in mouth = exposure to disease. It's pretty educated to say if enough men come in your mouth, someday, somewhere you may get AIDS if you aren't at least trying to be safe and it goes the opposite way too, with all this "fanatical" behaviour, me and my bf could end up with AIDS too because of an accident...

thanks guys, you've given me lots to think about...

Um excuse me, CuteCouple...

But I see nothing "negative" with my post to you, only truth & honesty, at least "I" thought...*Reading my post over again...* I guess I'm missing something here... http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/confused.gif *lol*

You've just given ME a lot to think about now. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/eek.gif

Okay, I'm over it now. *lol*


Good luck in your search! http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
(And I mean that in a POSITIVE way!) http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
CyberWife

[JustAskJulie]

It appeared their response was aimed more at myself and Liza and MiCpl than at you guys Cyber.

I think the safe sex issue is something that everyone has to think about and consider. I wasn't trying to be negative towards you for choosing to protect yourself, and I really don't think anyone else was either. I think we were just being honest. The people are are talking with here for the most part are people who have been active in the lifestyle for a good bit longer than you have based on your initial post. We simply let you know what we have seen in our experience.

I see nothing wrong with requiring safe sex during all activities, that is your choice, but as you said it may limit your encounters. Just as choosing to only have intercourse with condoms can sometimes limit my own.

Just as every person is different so is every swinger and that is something you have to realize. Just as we can't condem you for choosing to use dental dams for oral sex, neither can you condem us for choosing not to. It's a choice we each must make when entering into this. And yes, some do choose the "no oral" route.

If you haven't yet, I would highly suggest you take the time to read the other messages on this board. I think that doing so will give you a clearer view on these issues rather than jumping to the conclusion that we are all out to get you and getting defensive. You came to this board asking for help, you got honest opinions and advice. It's up to you to take the information you were provided as you will, but do not judge US for providing you that information.

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

[CuteCouple]

I'm not condeming anyone here for their choices but it seems I am the one being condemed for mine and I have reviewed the posts. I believe someone called us Fanatical, that does sound condeming and judgemental doesn't it?

Being new to swinging has nothing to do with the way I feel and I can read 1000 posts and I will still feel the same way and btw, I've been reading for awhile, long before I even decided to post. I didn't just have a problem then come running for a site to post my issue!

The advice I did get, I will most certainly take. I will communicate what I think is safe sex very bluntly before anything happens, actually before any meetings to avoid any more embarassment for myself, partner or the other couple.

In addition, this whole "posting" experience has made it known to me that clubs aren't likely the place for myself and my bf with our views on safe sex. I'm glad we know this in advance because our inexperince(sarcastic) would have definately put us in a humiliating situation with our flavoured condoms and dental dams, showing up at a party and wanting all our adventures, oral and sexual to be protected.

Everywhere on this earth people are having unsafe sex, I don't care if you guys do it! You guys seem more upset with the fact that we don't have unsafe oral...

Originally posted by CuteCouple:
.....You guys seem more upset with the fact that we don't have unsafe oral...

I for one, am glad that you both are as concerned about safe sex, even orally, then those who don't even give this a second thought before engaging in any sexual activities! I see nothing "wrong" with this...

And I do agree, that from here on, it is made plainly clear (as you said you will from now on), what types of "safe sex" you & your b/f use, such as condoms, dental dams, etc...Leaving no room for any "miscommunication" in the future. http://www.swingersboard.com/ubb/smile.gif


CyberWife