Safe Sex & Herpes

[jerilyn1432003]

is there any way to have safe sex with someone who has herpes?

[Vespertine]

I don't think so, jerilyn432003.

From what I understand, condoms and vaginal dams aren't reliable because there is still some skin to skin contact.
Even if the skin is unblemished and there aren't any lesions, I believe you can still be exposed to the virus if the person has herpes.

Like they say: It's the gift that keeps on giving......

[imsnowman]

You're certainly correct when you say there is no 100% protection.
However...(there always is one )
Mere contact with an infected person will not cause you to "catch" it. You must have skin-to-skin contact with an infected person's outbreak site to "catch" herpes. Participating in oral sex with someone who has a cold sore can result in a genital herpes type I infection.
As far as herpes II specifically: (All numbers approx. but close) 25% of the adult population has herpes. 3 in 12 persons one might meet at a club will have it. Of those 3, 2 won't even know it. A percentage of the individuals who do know will not acknowledge it. In any case, 1 of every 6 potential club partners will have herpes and not know it.

The following are some quotes from various papers I found on the Net:
Asymptomatic shedding (ie, no sore present but viral shedding at the outbreak site) is most likely to occur in the week before or after a recurrence.
Taking daily antiviral medication reduces the frequency of episodes of viral shedding. This may be particularly helpful when you first get the herpes virus, as viral shedding is more frequent in the earlier days.
Asymptomatic shedding occurs more frequently in the first few years after primary genital herpes and declines with time. Herpes simplex type 1(cold sore herpes which about 90% of the entire population has), which causes an increasing proportion of genital HSV infections, is less frequently shed than is HSV type 2. The rate of shedding among men is similar to that of women. There is a positive correlation between symptomatic and asymptomatic reactivation: persons with frequent recurrences also have more asymptomatic shedding.
A recent study has begun to answer the question of whether a genital herpes patient taking a daily dose of an antiviral drug can lower the risk of transmitting HSV-2 to an uninfected partner. Three antiviral drugs are approved to treat or suppress outbreaks of genital herpes: acyclovir, famciclovir and valacyclovir. Most clinically apparent outbreaks can be prevented by taking one of these drugs daily. In addition, daily acyclovir reduces asymptomatic viral shedding by 95%.
Auto-inoculation: An infected individual can spread the virus to other parts of his or her body by touching an area shedding virus and then touching, scratching, or rubbing another susceptible part of the body.
Dr. Sherzer, an MD who gives lectures at LifeStyle conventions seems comfortable with using a NewSkin type barrier over the active sites and continuing to play!
How does this apply to the average couple who know they have herpes and those who'd like to play with them? Folks who are some years removed from their initial outbreak and who have been on a daily antiviral suppression regime since then are very unlikely to be asymptomatically shedding. They will know where their outbreak sites are, how long its been since the last outbreak and any who play with them will be able to make an informed decision as to whether its possible to avoid the sites. Standard safe sex practises (condoms/dental dams) can protect you from herpes if they cover the sites.

[rduelist]

That is all very good information. It is also worth noting that many people have no outbreaks at all. From talking to others it appears that in most cases outbreaks seem to decline in frequency over the years. I know that I have had no outbreaks for more than 5 years. What I do not know is whether asymtomatic shedding is likely for those of us who rarely have outbreaks. I have seen no studies on this.

The other thing that is interesting is the fear associated with herpes. While I would not wish to expose anyone who did not know the risks, the disease itself is hardly life threatening. Suppressive treatments reduce the frequency of outbreaks to nearly zero (my wife rarely has outbreaks while taking the medicine) and also end outbreaks rather quickly. While some people have painful outbreaks, it is, as earlier posts point out, common for someone to have herpes and not even know it. In general then it is probably less significant in many ways to having the flu. The big drug companies make money by scaring people about the severity. Of course anything incurable is bad, but then we all have a terminal disease (life).

[dreamer]

Imsnowman, Thanks for scaring the crap out of me. This is not a acceptable risk. How can anyone swing with this possibility hanging over their head. 25% that's crazy. So at the red Rooster, there's probably at least one person that has Herpes in that pile of bodies in one of their upstairs rooms. What? People just don't give a shit? There doesn't even need to be a visible out break to contract this virus. Are most people just not informed?

[imsnowman]

Originally Posted by dreamer

Imsnowman, Thanks for scaring the crap out of me. This is not a acceptable risk. How can anyone swing with this possibility hanging over their head. 25% that's crazy. So at the red Rooster, there's probably at least one person that has Herpes in that pile of bodies in one of their upstairs rooms. What? People just don't give a shit? There doesn't even need to be a visible out break to contract this virus. Are most people just not informed?

If you'll read both my post and the one just below it again you may come to the conclusion that there really is little to be afraid of. Herpes is not life-threatening and is little more than an inconvience to most folks. Many people have it and don't even know it ie , no symptoms.

I would agree that most people are not well-informed.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by imsnowman

I would agree that most people are not well-informed.

Dito

There are a lot of people that have HSV, but are asymptomatic....but they are still carriers and spreading the virus around unknowingly.

It's a scary world. You need to pick your partners carefully.

[dreamer]

Originally Posted by imsnowman

If you'll read both my post and the one just below it again you may come to the conclusion that there really is little to be afraid of. Herpes is not life-threatening and is little more than an inconvience to most folks. Many people have it and don't even know it ie , no symptoms.

I would agree that most people are not well-informed.

It may not be life threatening, but the stigma of having a std for the rest of my life is not an option. Thanks for your post. The info was very helpful.

We will just assume everybody is infected. Could you answer these questions? We're tryiing to find 100% safe boundaries here (may not be possible)

Assuming our partners are infected

Can she or me give a lubricated hand job to our partner safely? that's skin to skin, but can you contract it on your hands.

Can a guy cum on her safely? She's got a fantasy of being in the center of a bunch of guys masturbating.

It seems like we're going to fall in the extremly soft swinger category

[JustAskJulie]

The problem with herpes and the REASON that 25% of the population is infected is that most people don't know they are. Males, especially, are very likely to be carriers only never actually exhibiting any symptoms. They can pass it on without ever knowing they had it... and add to that that there is no accurate test for Herpes UNLESS you do have symptoms. It's no wonder that so many people have it.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by dreamer

We're tryiing to find 100% safe boundaries here (may not be possible)

The only 100% safe sex is if you where a virgin when you met your lady and she was the same and neither of you ever have any contact with anyone else.

Now, that can be done but betting that is not the case here at all.

Nothing in life is 100%. You have to decide what you want out of life and go for it. Be it this lifestyle, driving a car, flying or even walking out your front door. EVERYTHING has a risk to reward factor.

Only you can decide.

[imsnowman]

Originally Posted by dreamer

It may not be life threatening, but the stigma of having a std for the rest of my life is not an option. Thanks for your post. The info was very helpful.

We will just assume everybody is infected. Could you answer these questions? We're tryiing to find 100% safe boundaries here (may not be possible)

Assuming our partners are infected

Can she or me give a lubricated hand job to our partner safely? that's skin to skin, but can you contract it on your hands.

Can a guy cum on her safely? She's got a fantasy of being in the center of a bunch of guys masturbating.

It seems like we're going to fall in the extremly soft swinger category

As has been said there are no 100% guarantees with sex except strict monogamy with a person who is not infected with anything. However, you're two scenarios are probably "safe". I haven't read anything about herpes on the hand.

For your own piece of mind do a Google search of herpes. There is a lot of information available. Then make a decision the consequences of which you can live with.

[imsnowman]

Originally Posted by Vespertine

Dito

There are a lot of people that have HSV, but are asymptomatic....but they are still carriers and spreading the virus around unknowingly.

It's a scary world. You need to pick your partners carefully.

So how do you pick your partners carefully, if they don't know and have never had reason to believe they are infected?

[DBL D]

I go with Vegas on this one. Nothing is for sure. You have to be willing to take the risk...or just watch the action from the sidelines.

M.D.

[rduelist]

Assuming our partners are infected

Can she or me give a lubricated hand job to our partner safely? that's skin to skin, but can you contract it on your hands.

Can a guy cum on her safely? She's got a fantasy of being in the center of a bunch of guys masturbating.

It seems like we're going to fall in the extremly soft swinger category [/quote]


The virus is carried (assuming asymptomatic shedding) in the vicinity of the genitals, so a hand is almost certainly safe. Genital herpes is rarely located in the mouth, so even oral sex is comparatively safe. You can get oral herpes in the genitals, it is generally mild in that case. It is likely that a majority of adults have oral herpes, it is at least very common (cold sores). Semen is more problematical. While the virus is actually not carried in the semen (unlike HIV) any secretion around the genitals could pick up the virus. Your reaction is probably absolutely correct however, there is clearly no way to be safe, given the nature of the beast.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by imsnowman

So how do you pick your partners carefully, if they don't know and have never had reason to believe they are infected?

I pray they're uninfected.

Like VegasLee was saying, there are risks to everything in life. I can't be 100% sure about anything in this world. I do the best that I can without having to sit on the sidelines.

I always use condoms. I only perform oral on those I'm comfortable with and I don't have anal sex with anyone other than my spouse. I'm selective in my choice of partners as well..... That's the best I can do.