Safe Sex & Herpes

[magnum]

Originally Posted by DBL D

For the last statement? Yeah...does sound strange huh? What I think I meant was that you are going to take a chance in what ever you might do. I'm saying the chances are less with the swinging population than in general...use whatever term for "general" you like. Except celibates!

I think you do get to know some people pretty well. I have a pretty sharp ear and eye and if something doesn't look right then it's a no go. There are some very wonderful people out there who are very safe. We think we're two of them. Doesn't mean we won't play with condoms. Just means that we are interested in getting to the point where we won't have to use them with some of our partners. That's what I meant by "knowing them".

I have been tested...Negative...I have had my hepitius shots...clean & good to go...

I am a single male, I do not play/swing with just any one for the sake of playing...

I have been playing/swinging with friends of mine for 4 years now, they know when I have been with "someone" else, which isn't very offten, because I tell them.

I think eveyone in here is aware and plays smart...Keep it up!!! No pun intended.


Magnum

[erikku and pei]

I don't know... I think there's an intensified stigma attached to any desease as soon as it becomes associated with sex and/or genitalia and it is designated as "incureable". I have oral herpes and have outbreaks about every 6 months. Talk about a terrible thing! It's a horrible social disease! Back in college, I'd have an outbreak and skip going to the bars for a week or so. They're painful, horrible looking blisters that itch and bleed for about 3 days, and then they turn into crusty scabs for at least another week. And, worst thing is, I have it... forever until I die. Now, as far as genital herpes go, I may be one of the 25% who has it but doesn't know it. I have never shown any signs of outbreak "down there" and if I had to answer the question, "Do you have genital herpes?" on a questionaire, I'd have no problem marking the "no' box. but honestly, I think IF genital herpes was more socially acceptible, I'd probably trade my oral herpes for the genital kind just because I wouldn't have to walk around in public for ten days out of every six months with those goddamn things on my lips! What's the point to all this? I don't know, I guess I'm just wondering if one disease is actually worse than another just because it's associated with sex. I could easily pass on oral herpes to another person by simply kissing them (tongue not necessary, just a peck is enough!) But somehow this is more understandable, less frightening, and more forgiveable simply because it doesn't involve sex and genitalia in any way and only involves peoples FACES (!!!) which people see all the time. I know STD's are the mother of all mood-busters, but when put into perspective, isn't it possible most of us (including me) overreact towards them? Just some food for thought.

[KittKatt]

To all those who asked if you can get herpes on your hands

after carefully surfing the web...i found this picture and thought of the question asked....and YES you can...as well as ANYWHERE else on the body..

I will find the site and post a link to it asap...

http://www.dermis.net/doia/image.asp...1&diagnr=54900

[TnJ2Play]

Originally Posted by imsnowman

From what I've read the only times you're infectious is IF you've had an outbreak. Then for a few days after the outbreak you might be infectious but not necessarily.

You can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak so that is not correct.

[imsnowman]

If someone has never had an outbreak how would they know they were infected? How would they be able to test for shedding since they wouldn't know where to test?

[Vespertine]

You can have a blood test to look for the antibodies. This test, from what I understand, is not 100%.

[imsnowman]

Originally Posted by Vespertine

You can have a blood test to look for the antibodies. This test, from what I understand, is not 100%.

True, but, if you don't have any symptoms, ie outbreaks, why would you get tested?
And if you're going to test for shedding you have to know where the specific spot is. Practically speaking, I can't see how anyone could show asymptomatic shedding without knowing the spot to test. And I can't see how you'd know the spot without having had an outbreak. Seems like a "Catch 22" to me.

[Rett]

I know little of herpes but, found the following interesting excerpt from an article in Iron Magazine, written by Curtis Koch , entitled `Creatine: Beyond the Confusion - part I (think it was published in Sept. 2001?)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did You Say Herpes?

What can you say about herpes? It's kind of like one of those girls that are fun to pick up and party with - until she moves in with you, becomes a disgusting living nightmare, and Never, Ever leaves---Ever. If you were in this situation and someone told you how to keep the little "lady" under control, I think you would want to hear about it, wouldn't you.

Apparently creatine can help inhibit the replication of herpes simplex 1 and 2 (HVS-1, HVS-2), and may reduce morbidity and mortality of those who suffer from HVS-2. A practitioner at Camp Pendleton Marine Base who was treating several cases of herpes noticed that several of his patients failed to return for periodic acyclovir therapy. After inquiring, it was revealed that these patients had all commenced supplemental creatine after their last outbreak and had experienced no further outbreaks & apparently cyclocreatine, a synthetic compound structurally and functionally homogolous to creatine, has the abilitly to inhibit HVS-1 and HVS-2. Because creatine and cyclocreatine have shown neuroprotective and cancer-retardant effects in rodents, the speculation exists the creatine shares the anti-viral ability of cyclocreatine.

In the United States approximately 45 million individuals (about one in five people over age 12) are infected with HVS-2. Furthermore, there will be up to 1 million new HVS-2 infections transmitted each year. With 45 million people in the United states suffering from herpes I believve that anything that can prevent these unfortunate people from future outbreaks should be looked at very seriously. If you could only prevent your mother-in-law from coming back by giving her a little creatine,,,,,,,,,,

================================================== ========

(As with any substance you should check with your Doctor first)

Also, if you do an internet search using the words "DMSO and Herpes" you may find an alternate treatment.

Take care everyone.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by imsnowman

True, but, if you don't have any symptoms, ie outbreaks, why would you get tested?
And if you're going to test for shedding you have to know where the specific spot is.

I get tested because I have multiple sex partners.

I think if anyone had a suspicious lesion around their genital area a doctor would have a good idea where the specific spot is located.

[imsnowman]

I understand all that you say. My original point was why in response to TnJ2Play's post stating; "You can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak so that is not correct.". This response was in response to my post stating “From what I've read the only times you're infectious is IF you've had an outbreak. Then for a few days after the outbreak you might be infectious but not necessarily.”

If one has not had an outbreak then one would not know that one even has herpes. So how would anyone test for asymptomatic shedding? Herpes doesn’t just randomly pop-up everywhere on the body. The only way to test for shedding is to have a specific spot. So their point that one can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak sounds very difficult to prove. If as you say there is a suspicious lesion then one has now had an outbreak.
The fairly unreliable blood test does not show whether the individual is actively shedding. It just shows if they’ve been exposed and have antibodies present.)

[readstoomuch]

Originally Posted by imsnowman

If one has not had an outbreak then one would not know that one even has herpes. So how would anyone test for asymptomatic shedding? Herpes doesn’t just randomly pop-up everywhere on the body. The only way to test for shedding is to have a specific spot. So their point that one can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak sounds very difficult to prove. If as you say there is a suspicious lesion then one has now had an outbreak.
The fairly unreliable blood test does not show whether the individual is actively shedding. It just shows if they’ve been exposed and have antibodies present.)

imsnowman, I think I can answer at least part of your question. I am HSV2 positive but have never had intercourse (or any other sexual contact) with anyone showing symptoms. So, technically, I received the disease from asymptomatic shedding. To my knowledge, there is no way to actually test for the virus itself because it is in small quantities anywhere but significant sores. Probably the easiest way to show asymptomatic shedding is real and exists is to track the transmission of the disease among people who don't show symptoms; my guess is that this is how the asymptomatic shedding is being investigated. Personally, I have never shown a symptom of the disease, but I absolutely take precautions to minimize the risk of transmission to partners.

As to your point of the antibody tests, they give no indication of whether someone is currently shedding the virus. They show you whether you have HSV1 or HSV2 antibodies in your bloodstream. The most recent versions of these tests are actually decently accurate. After receiving a positive test, I ran the numbers and found that I had only a %10 chance of a false-positive. I can't quote you the sensitivity and specificity of the test off the top of my head, but they at least give a decent bench mark. I think that the tests of active herpes lesions are relatively accurate as well (not positive on this one). The older blood tests were terrible and close to worthless.

Two more things and then I promise I'm finished
1. Very few people infected with HSV2 know they have it. This is for the most part because most of the people with the disease either show no symptoms or such minor symptoms that they're never identified as herpes. Symptoms can be as subtle as a small red bump easily confused for a pimple or ingrown hair (which everybody gets). This reinforces the point that the worst potential part of the disease is the stigma.
2. Estimates vary quite a bit, but from my research, approximately %80 of people are infected with HSV1 orally (estimates range as low as %50 and as high as %90-95, around %80 seems like the most common answer). Most don't show symptoms. Around %25 of women and %20 of men are infected with HSV2; the vast majority of these cases are genital herpes rather than oral herpes.

I hope I wasn't too long-winded. Great discussion everybody!

[eager4more]

Originally Posted by readstoomuch

imsnowman, I think I can answer at least part of your question. I am HSV2 positive but have never had intercourse (or any other sexual contact) with anyone showing symptoms. So, technically, I received the disease from asymptomatic shedding. To my knowledge, there is no way to actually test for the virus itself because it is in small quantities anywhere but significant sores. Probably the easiest way to show asymptomatic shedding is real and exists is to track the transmission of the disease among people who don't show symptoms; my guess is that this is how the asymptomatic shedding is being investigated.

I was told by a clinician at Planned Parenthood that they followed people with definite genital herpes for 1 year and swabbed the known lesion areas on a regular basis - maybe everyday- regardless of whether or not there was a visible outbreak. That's how they found asymptomatic shedding. For these people the shedding would start a few days before a visible outbreak. Now that's 2nd hand (or maybe 3rd or more) information.

Three weeks ago I had my first outbreak. No one has 'fessed up. When we spoke to the "prime suspect," he seemed stunned. He seemed to decide that it couldn't be him, which is understandable given that he's had no symptoms and when faced with the possibility of having herpes you (or at least we) try hard to hold onto anything that hints otherwise. At least we told him and hopefully he'll be more watchful for symptoms now and be more careful about correct condom useage than he was with us.

[MuttinJeff]

Hi, just joined and was going through threads and am a safe sex freak, so wanted to pass on some info. Herpes is a "genital std" but can show up on other body parts. Hence a person with herpes can have an outbreak that shows up on thier hands or other body parts. I know its rare, but my stepmother was unable to hold certain jobs because of this. (although she and my father were married for 13 or so years and he never contacted it) Also when you go to get tested, you have to ask specifically for a herpes test and that can cost up to $150. Alot of doctors don't test without evidence of actual sores as so much of the population is infected, its not considered "dangerous", and is incurable.
Just wanted to pass it along.

[alicat69]

Just adding my info in as well...I am a social worker by trade and I am non judgemental and (unfortunatly sometimes) people just love to confide deep dark secrets to me. I know a ton of people with herpes. I know women who have had children after herpes, they were fine. I had sex with someone who I found out through the grapevine has herpes, I don't know if he had it when I was with him and didn't know it or not, or if he lied. I have never had any symptoms and have since had a child and all the testing done during that time and no one mentioned anything. Do I think I could be asymptomatic... maybe. It is possible, after reading the comments on this site, I will not make the mistake of being tested. If I do happen to have it, it is not causing any problems.
Just a couple thoughts...I know so many people with it, I think those who have had a lot of multiple partners are kidding themselves not to think that they probably have it. Same with HPV. Just to put it in numbers, if you have had sex with 10 people at least 3 HAVE HAD IT, and either didn't know or didn't tell you. Denial, denial, denial.

[dream43]

Ive had herpes about 15 years now.. Ive learned a few things I can share here. Since 15 years, Ive had about 5 different partners. Only one contracted it from me (I think she did.. This was early on when I was symptomatic once a month, or more). Other girlfriends I know did not get. I had/have it severly. It shows up times when my immune system is over run, IE - no sleep, several days of heavy drinking such as in college when I first got it, job stress.. thing like this. You CAN get it on different body parts. Its called "shingles". Sometimes I can tell when its coming. My situation is it itches like crazy and red spots show up. For me also, the spots move around. Doctors all say it stays in one place. Not the case in my situation.

If you are in the swinger lifestyle it seems like its good chance you will be exposed to this, or something similar. There really is a stigma attached that is unwarranted. Several of my partners didnt know what it was and the best way to describe it is "dick zits". Red spots show up and stay a week or two, similar to facial zits many of us had in our youth. They go away 1-2 weeks roughly, quicker if you take some pills. Thats it.. Its really not a horrible thing. More the stigma about being in a private area.

One person posted that his wife wanted a sperm facial. Well, I am happy to report I give my wife this often and several X girlfriends. To date, no issues. I will say though that sympoms on woman are hard to detect. Often times its inside where its not visible.

As far as shedding.. I have read and spoken to doctors who say this is possible. Ive also heard drug company adds say its possible to spread even if you have no symptoms. Im not sure about this. Ive been with my wife 5 years now and never really used condoms. I get symptoms now and again and we are careful. It would seem that in 5 years she would have gotten it had I been shedding all this time. She does not have that we know of..

I guess I will pose the question here, what would people on the list do about having this and wanting to explore a few 3-some fantasies? Im thinking we will be shunned, and wont be welcome to have intercourse with other couples. opinions?? My wife has never been with another man before and she is kind of curious. Not sure how this might affect the future.

dream43