How can so many people claim to be D&D free?

[shygirl0305]

I am curious. I have read through a great number of personal ads on a variety of sites and one thing that always catches my eye are the folks who state that they are "clean and safe." How is that ALWAYS possible? I know that you can request any specific test - BUT - Especially when I read about people that didn't even know HPV existed? How can they say"clean and safe" and be SURE? Especially when there are diseases out there that they are not getting tested for.

Is ignorance really bliss?

A girlfriend of mine shared with me that she had HPV. And the first sexual contact she had in her life was a rape, which made the discussion that much more difficult for her. It was not that she had trouble with sharing the information and experiences, but she was overwhelmed of the stigma associated with having an STD. She has not had much for sex in her life because of this.

Do people that contract an STD via a deceitful partner or a rape or whatever the cause -

Do these people deserve any less love and attention? Should they not be playing?


As I am enamoured with the human race I feel these people deserve the same as everybody else. I want my girl "friend" to feel loved and appreciated as we all deserve, but this is a tough situation.

And from what I have read there are 2 mojor types - 1 (condoloma and dyspalsia). Condomyloma causes the warts and the Dysplasia causes the cancer. There are more than 100 viruses about there that fall under the HPV catagory. Most cause small warts on the hands and feets and other "general" body parts. 60 of the 100 can cause genital warts and 3 of those can cause cancer in the genital region (not specific to the cervix(most common)). She happens to have one that causes cancer so the risk is even higher as a woman. All of this information is clear to me but it doesn't change the fact that she faces this issue with everyone and anyone she comes in contact with (hence the inactive sex life).

I guess what I am getting at is that I understand all of the consequences and risks to this engagement but just wanted to know what other people's thoughts are about some of the issues here.

No one should HAVE to live that way! I care very deeply for her and wish I could make a difference in her life (sexually that is). She is beautiful, kindhearted and SO loving. I hate to see her hurting like this.

I appreciate your feedback - REALLY - this is a real life situation for me - NOT hypothetical. I have people to talk to but not about all of this. As a newbie I find myself overwhelmed with this situation and would be greatful to anyone willing to give an opinion, thought ... I know this is a tough subject.

Thank you.

[Vespertine]

I am curious. I have read through a great number of personal ads on a variety of sites and one thing that always catches my eye are the folks who state that they are "clean and safe." How is that ALWAYS possible? I know that you can request any specific test - BUT - Especially when I read about people that didn't even know HPV existed? How can they say"clean and safe" and be SURE? Especially when there are diseases out there that they are not getting tested for.

I can't speak for all people--- but I can tell you how -I- interpret the phrase "clean & safe".
To me it means they do not have HIV or AIDS and they have been tested.

I guess what I am getting at is that I understand all of the consequences and risks to this engagement but just wanted to know what other people's thoughts are about some of the issues here.

I assume EVERYONE has an STD when I first meet them.
I use protection regardless because you can never be too sure.
STD's are unfortuntely very common (outside this lifestyle, as well)--- So I take care not to participate in risky play.
That's the best I can do without driving myself crazy.



Welcome to the board, btw.

[shygirl0305]

Thank you so much. I realize I am new and this is very detailed and so forth. I wish I could delete it. But thank you so much for responding it meant more than you know.

Shygirl

[stoutgatte]

I agree with most of what you're saying shygirl. I believe people only reference HIV/AIDS when they claim to be STD free, and even then you cannot believe them. Due to the stigma associated with STDs people tend to hide them. So we simply assume everyone is a carrier and keep up our safe(r) sex attitude when we play with anyone.

As for your friend, there are many open, understanding individuals out there who would not shun her for having a STD that 80% of the population has in some form or another... I'd preach being open and honest and not hiding anything from potential partners. I know it's way easier said than done, but then again, she could hide it and lose the person because she lied, and not due to the std...

There is no need to remove the post you made or even apologize for it. It said more about you as a person than an essay could, and all of it was nice... Hope your friend finds happyness and acceptance...

[shygirl0305]

Thank you so much for your kind words and response. I think I am going to show her that post. We talked about the fact that I wanted to talk to other people about it. She stated as long as they don't know her she was ok. But your post will bring her hope that it is not over yet! As much as I care for her I am not sure I could expose myself to what is potentially ... cancer. But then I start thinking about how short life is in general and that we will all ultimately die from something....

But I have been thinking about what else I can do to encourage her to live more. I really think she needs some kind of support group. I will have to do some research on the internet and see what might be available in her area. Are there support groups for this type of thing? I would guess there is.

I care and want to be there for her and help in any way I can, but I don't know what to do exactly or how to handle all of this. It is all pretty heavy stuff.


Again, thank you so much for your thoughts!!! It has really been bothering me that I didn't have ANYONE to discuss it with. My partner has expressed his thoughts but feels that since the HPV we are specifically talking about relates to cervical cancer - he says the final decision should be mine.

And if I do this I would feel obligated to tell other people after that that I had been exposed to this. I am not so sure how I feel about that either. I see what she is going through and it scares me.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by shygirl0305

Again, thank you so much for your thoughts!!! It has really been bothering me that I didn't have ANYONE to discuss it with. My partner has expressed his thoughts but feels that since the HPV we are specifically talking about relates to cervical cancer - he says the final decision should be mine.

And if I do this I would feel obligated to tell other people after that that I had been exposed to this. I am not so sure how I feel about that either. I see what she is going through and it scares me.

Are you wondering if it is safe to play with her?

I wouldn't think that dysplasia would be too much of a concern--
I have had cervical dysplasia in the past and had a procedure to remove it---this is going back about 15 years ago and my pap smears have been clean since. From what I understand---dysplasia is not uncommon.
I'd like to hear some of the healthcare worker's opinions that are on this board.

I wonder now if my dysplasia was a result of HPV.

I'll have to consult my GYN. When I was informed that I had dysplasia nothing was ever mentioned to me about HPV.
(I never had warts or other symptoms.)

But I certainly don't want to be one of those blissful, ignorant people.


*See! Your post was educational! Thanks!

[JustAskJulie]

I think to a large extent "Ignorance Is Bliss" as you said. Many people post it whether they really know they are or not. There are some diseases that can be easily tested for but many others that can not unless you have visible symptoms.

As far as those who have something not being able to participate or to have a full and rich sex life, I don' tthink that is the case. With your friend I have a feeling that what is stopping her from having a full and rich sex life is the rape more than the STD. That type of things happening to women often lives in their psyche and keeps them from ever being able to really enjoy sex or to allow themselves to even participate at times.

There are groups of swingers out there who specifically come together because they all have a particular STD. I have seen posts here even from folks who have said that by being honest about their STD in their ads they have even increased the number of responses they have gotten (and found that many of those who responded put "clean and safe" in their ad but when they responded to this couple opened up that they had an STD). So perhaps those people are defining "clean and safe" as safe of HIV /AIDS as well.

[shygirl0305]

Originally Posted by Vespertine

Are you wondering if it is safe to play with her?

Yes, I am. Especialy since she told me about the HPV. Clearly that makes it unsafe in some ways but, I am new to the lifestyle and am not as educated on FF transmission.

Originally Posted by Vespertine

From what I understand---dysplasia is not uncommon.
I'd like to hear some of the healthcare worker's opinions that are on this board.


I wonder now if my dysplasia was a result of HPV.

My doctor said it is very common also and that a very high percentage of dysplasia is caused by HPV. With what you stated above and,

Originally Posted by Vespertine

I wouldn't think that dysplasia would be too much of a concern--

Does it possibly being HPV, does that change your opinion in any way?

Thanks Vespertine for taking the time to respond.

[shygirl0305]

Thank you for the feedback Julie.

I am going to talk to her about support groups for a variety of things, including the rape.

I am new to the lifestyle and the board. I am learning that for the most part "Clean and safe" refers to HIV and HepC - free. Being that these are in a different class of diseases (as ones that can cause more than just health problems) that makes sense. And the more threads and posts I read the more I understand that "it goes with the lifestyle." The lifestyle itself is risky. So, I guess the idea is that if you have done your homework and know what you are getting into then it goes without saying. Is that somewhat correct?

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

[Vespertine]

Shygirl0305

I went and read up on HPV and I'll include a few quotes from the site that I found interesting.

(The site is: http://www.ashastd.org/hpvccrc/abcell.html#prepare)

"The goal of any treatment will be to get remove the abnormal cells. This may also end up removing most of the cells with the HPV in them."

"If someone was exposed to the types of HPV that can cause abnormal cell changes, it would be unlikely that he or she will become re-infected with those same types since immunity will be set-up at some point."

"Realize that most people are exposed to one or more HPV types in their lifetime, and most will never even know it because they will not have visible symptoms."

"HPV is a very common virus, and most females with HPV do not develop cervical cancer."

From what I read- Men can be carriers-- but the virus has no effect on their general health. Women, of course, may develop cervical cancer and that is a little unsettling. But (BIG BUT here) as long as women have routine pap smears and follow up on any abnormality found-- there shouldn't be any long term problems for them either.

I think, in general, it is wise to assume that most everybody who has had sex will have (at least) one type of HPV.

There are no visible symptoms for the dysplasia types. Men can have it as well as women and testing for men is currently not productive because false-negative results are a common occurence.
Condoms are not effective. They only provide minimal protection.
This virus is spread by skin-to-skin contact and by oral, anal and vaginal sex.

When I have my next pap I'm going to request an HPV test too.
I'm sure I will have at least one type.
But I'm also sure that 99% of everyone I know (including my parents, siblings and clergy) would have similar results.
If I can keep my children virgins-- maybe they won't get it.

As I said before-- I'm not overly concerned about HPV.
I try to protect myself as best as I can. I get tested for HIV every year. I have been inoculated for Hep and I use condoms. I try to choose partners with care and I always wear my seatbelt and take my vitamins daily.

[shygirl0305]

Vespertine - you are awesome! Thanks for the info, the link and your time and thoughts.

I respect you for sharing your feelings. Thank you so much for helping to ease my anxiety about this. I get what you (and most of the threads here are saying). The big concerns are Hep and HIV. Treatable things like Herpes, HPV, crabs, etc are of concern but are a bit of a given based on statistics and the lifestyle. As long as you take the necessary precautions (screening potential mates and using condoms, barriers, spermacides and so forth) AND get tested appropriately (frequency/type of tests) that it's all "manageable or treatable."

There is a difference between the two. Hep and HIV can take your life. The others are ALL treatable. Not to downplay anything but I am trying to understand in general where "most" people draw the line. ANd I think that I have found it.

Again, thank you so much Vespertine for your input!!!

Shygirl

[mysticmind]

I work in a dr's office and one of our docs told us that the first time a female has sex, she has like an 80% chance of getting HPV. That being said, the dysplasia type is curable. The condyloma type is not. You can treat the warts, but they do come back. Dysplasia can be removed and usually doesn't come back. Also, that same doc says that most people can cure themselves without ever knowing they had it and that smokers are more likely to keep it than nonsmokers.

[shygirl0305]

Thank you for the information. It is much appreciated.

[sensuality]

This is such an awesome post,you guys!! I rarely,if ever, see much discussion on HPV.And, you'd be surprised how many people have no clue about its existence.That being said,I wouldn't let it detour me from having an active sex life;-) Just remember,there's no real way to protect yourself from HPV,it is in the entire genital region,meaning a condom won't really do much good.However, I'd say taking multivitamins and keeping yourself as healthy as possible will help fight a lot of those nasty bacterias and viruses we all come in contact with on a daily basis.I take acidophilus and cranberry pills everyday on top of my multivitamin...hey...every little bit helps,right??

[Elusive BiFem]

Shygirl...first, why would you have even considered deleting your original post? It is so very pertinent in so many ways.

As someone else mentioned, I generally think of HIV and Hepatitis when people mention they are disease free. But really, I just roll my eyes at such comments because most people really don't know...not to mention much depends on the actual time of testing vs. possible exposure, etc. Even a negative HIV test done yesterday means nothing to me since it sometimes takes years for the HIV to show up. As for HPV - 80% of the population. Put 10 people in a room and odds are, 8 of us have it.

But...back to your friend who is the focus of this thread. Honestly, I would strongly recommend you suggest counseling for her, even if she has already had rape crisis counseling. I'm assuming from your comments that she acquired the HPV via the rape and if so, that is like a double whammy. I can't help but wonder if she isn't using the HPV diagnosis as some sort of emotional crutch to avoid any type of sexual relationship. All of the info posted here - the statistics, etc. - is info that is freely available on the net with a simple google search. Therefore, it seems she would know the same information, would know about support groups...all that sort of stuff...and would have been able to move forward in spite of the diagnosis.

A couple of the statements you made gave me cause for concern in terms of the thing that I'm calling a crutch (probably not the best choice of words, but all I can think of right now - apologies offered upfront)...

Do these people deserve any less love and attention? Should they not be playing?

And...

As I am enamoured with the human race I feel these people deserve the same as everybody else. I want my girl "friend" to feel loved and appreciated as we all deserve, but this is a tough situation.

And....

No one should HAVE to live that way! I care very deeply for her and wish I could make a difference in her life (sexually that is). She is beautiful, kindhearted and SO loving. I hate to see her hurting like this.

There is no reason a person in the year 2004 should NOT experience a loving sexual relationship and certainly, that person should not experience pain.

I would strongly suggest she seek counseling and again, as said, even if she has already had counseling. Often times where rape is concerned (as well as other emotional traumas), people have to go in and out of counseling periodically. As we grow and live and mature and formulate new ideas and thoughts, we accumulate "new" issues which often bring old ones to the forefront. Counseling through a reputable rape crisis center would also provide sexual health counseling. You may want to consider joining her for support and as someone who obviously cares deeply for her. She is lucky in that respect.

- EBF