Vanilla Couple - Crossing the Rubicon

[ratimadan]

If you were a very traditional, vanilla couple, before you started swinging, playing with other couple/s, and, exchanging partners for sex (intercourse included), were you helped by another experienced couple to overcome your inhibitions or misgivings about the Lifestyle? If you helped introduce another couple to engage in swinging, or, were yourself helped by another couple, what was the approach or technique you used and found most suitable?

We have known a very fine, traditional, married couple, (Dana and Jeff) for quite a few years and have tremendously enjoyed the social intercourse (dinners, parties, picnics, etc.) without approaching the couple to extrend the relationship to matters sexual, for a partner swap and sex. We have on occasion, asked tangentially, what the two thought of couples swinging-such as, did you watch Swingtown on TV? Lately, the two, husband and wife have been interested in or intrigued by our vacations at several Lifestyle resorts. If apears the husband and wife might be willing to move forward. Dana seems to cherish discretely the idea of intimacy and sex with Mr. M without being very overt in her desires.

Mrs R and Dana have been good friends. Over lunch Dana and Mrs discussed swinging lifestyle, and, Dana expressed reservations about how sex with another guy might impact her marriage and the risk of intimacy, leading to divorce etc., between each other's partner. So, matters stand as they have, since we do not have a good answer to Dana's misgivings.

We have thought of three things we could do: 1. Go to couples' club, together (least desired for a newwbie couple), 2. Vacation at the Lifestyle resort together where all four can experience the sexually charged atmosphere, or, 3. Invite the two to a private couples' party we go to, where a small number of married couples are invited to have fun in a no-pressure atmosphere. The party is not billed as a sex party, however, after many naughty games, most all couples do have sex with someonee other than one's own mate.

Mrs R thinks otherwise, that we may be wasting our time, since in her opinion, the two husband and wife, D and J, are way too conventional or "conservative" a couple as she puts it. She is not alone in her assessment. Upon asking a few long-time swinger couples, by 4 ot 1, margin think likewise. Find other couples willing and eager to swap mates and have sex, they said. Women definitely have a sixth sense that a man may lack.

We are looking for opinions from other couples, swingers or non-swingers, what they think. Tell us if this is an exercise in futility to get D and J to swing and have fun with them.

[two4youinswva]

Originally Posted by ratimadan

Upon asking a few long-time swinger couples, by 4 ot 1, margin think likewise. Find other couples willing and eager to swap mates and have sex, they said.

As I read the post, I was thinking "let it go" before I got to this line.
Seems that, after reading this, those "in the know" make me even more sure of my opinion.

Bottom Line: Is it worth the potential loss of long-term friends for the possible (small?) chance of hooking up with them? Is it worth the risk if you were to hook up and it didn't go well?

[Coupleerotic22]

Well, we were, and still are in many ways, about as conventional and conservative as you could imagine. We have met a number of couples just like us in that regard. Conventional or not, they MAY have the urge to swing from the sounds of it, but maybe not.

We did not have anyone to guide us into the lifestyle that we actually knew. We did not know any swingers, (as far as we know we didn't, lol). So we talked, read, talked, explored, talked some more, taking things at our own pace. This may be exactly what D&J are doing, or maybe not.

What I am not seeing is the need on your part to make any decision or take any actions at this time. IF they are moving toward the LS, they need to do so at their pace. It sounds like the 4 of you have had discussions to that end. Just be open and continue to be friends. If they bring up the topic, approach it honestly and give them your thoughts, offer advice only when solicited. AS for what to tell them about their questions, this board is a terrific resource for that. Maybe you could point them to this URL and tell them they can learn a great deal here if they are interested.

For now find committed swingers to play with and continue to have your friendship with D&J. If they ask for it, provide advice, but be patient. If they decide to swing, then great, if not, then that is great too.

They only decision I think you need to make is, when and if the time comes that D&J take the plunge, is do you want to play with your formerly vanilla friends. There are pitfalls in that, detailed in many post on this forum, there are also stories of success. Only you can figure out if it is a good idea to play with them as swingers. However, you are not there yet, because only D&J can decide if, when and how they will become swingers.

By the way, I did not vote. As you can see, there was no option for what I think you should do.

[ratimadan]

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

Well, we were, and still are in many ways, about as conventional and conservative as you could imagine. We have met a number of couples just like us in that regard. Conventional or not, they MAY have the urge to swing from the sounds of it, but maybe not.
By the way, I did not vote. As you can see, there was no option for what I think you should do.

Thanks for the well thought out response. We think the two, particularly the hubby, Jeff, has a strong urge to swing and experience and enjoy other partners for erotic play and sexual intercourse. From his actions and discrete words, we think he would love to fuck Mrs. R, given the opportunity. Dana seems to be conflicted between her urge to have intimacy and sexual intercourse with Mr. M and her very puritanical upbringing that prevents her from letting go and having sex with other partners besides her hubby.

We think things can and will change so eventually we wil be able to swap partners and enjoy vaginal intercourse with each other's mate. We will let the husband and wife reach their own conclusion regarding whether or not they are open to experiencing and enjoying what a million other married couples are discretely into, i.e., enjoying sexual variety and intercourse with someone else's mate without a sense of guilt.

R&M

[padoc]

Don't complicate matters and don't guess. Next time the 4 of you are together for dinner or drinks, just put your cards on the table. Tell them that you both find them attractive and that you think they may be interested in exploring the lifestyle. If they say no....then you know. If they say yes tell us the story.

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by padoc

Don't complicate matters and don't guess. Next time the 4 of you are together for dinner or drinks, just put your cards on the table. Tell them that you both find them attractive and that you think they may be interested in exploring the lifestyle. If they say no....then you know. If they say yes tell us the story.

I agree with this sentiment.

Something problematic here; you're deciding for them whether or not they are lifestyle compatible. Based on your knowledge of them, you're drawing a conclusion. The thing is, regardless of how good friends you are with them, you don't know them well enough to draw that conclusion. It's unfair to make that judgment for them. That doesn't mean you're compelled to say something to them of course, but I do think you shouldn't assume they're incapable of the lifestyle.

I've seen various different polls/studies/whatever that show a considerable number of swingers regularly attend church. Most people would think of regular attendees as being more conservative. The lifestyle also has many, many people raised in puritanical environments. These factors do not preclude being swingers. It's just the scenery along the road to deciding to swing. Each of us does that as we become swingers (or not).

It would seem from your postings that you would like to play with this couple. Given that, I'm assuming you're willing to talk to them about the lifestyle. As the poster I quoted above said, an option could be to just be open about it.

Sometimes in the effort to not offend, cause shock, problems, etc, we spend so much time pussy footing around things we never get to the real point. You can be polite, friendly, warm, and open with this couple and let them know that you two are swingers. You can say you know they are not, and you're not making a specific proposal to them. But rather, you've sensed some signals that they might be considering it. If so, you're a ready fount of knowledge for them, someone to talk to, ask questions, etc.

A often repeated saying around here is make friends of swingers, don't make swingers of friends. There is truth to that. You could damage your friendship with this couple if you pursue this approach. But, that saying is not a one size fits all thing. There's plenty of friends that have become swingers and swung with each other and made it work quite well. For an example of that, read this thread. You have to evaluate your situation yourself.

Feel free to update us on this and ask more questions as you'd like to!

[good times]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

A often repeated saying around here is make friends of swingers, don't make swingers of friends.

The reason that is such an often repeated saying is because, more often than not, trying to convert your friends into swingers ends the friendship. I know, it happened to us.

Another thing a lot of folks do not consider is that your friends may indeed be interested in swinging, but not with you. This often happens because the things that draw us together as friends, are often totally different than the things that attract us to someone sexually.

So, at the very least, I would not take the "lay all the cards on the table" approach. Personally, we would never bring it up with people who we are good friends with, people who are already swingers are not hard enough to find to make it worth it to risk a good friendship. But if we did do it, we would do it in such a way as to not put anyone in a corner. In other words, we might do as you have already done and discuss swinging with them in an non-committal way. If after bringing the subject up with them, they don't ask you outright if that is something you would consider doing, best bet is, they are not interested, and never will be.

[ratimadan]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

I agree with this sentiment.

Something problematic here; you're deciding for them whether or not they are lifestyle compatible.
A often repeated saying around here is make friends of swingers, don't make swingers of friends.
Feel free to update us on this and ask more questions as you'd like to!

Thanks BB for your keen and well thought out observations regarding us wanting to play, swap mates with D&J, and, fuck each other's mate. We also read the the thread poisted by docwill. We see a lot of similarities in their and our situations, except, we are not "close" friends with D&J. We are good friends though not very close. We think in our case, it's a typical case of analysis-paralysis when it comes to swapping mates with another couple for sexual play, and, more importantly for penile/vaginal intercourse with other's husband/wife.

Our experiencee tells us that it takes a swinger mindset to exchange mates with another couple for a variety of sexual activities, intercourse included. There are some couples that jump into swinging lifestyle and sex with other couples, and, other couples that think it over, and some that think it over for ever and for ever, never enjoying what swinging offers, which is, a variety of sexual partners under variety of circumstances. The last group of couples miss the point that sex is to be enjoyed in a variety of ways (many ways of doing intercourse) and in a variety of settings, such as, a private foursome with another couple, a sex party with many couples present, or with an attractive couple you meet at a swinger resort for the first time, and, you play and fuck each other's mate and enjoy the sexual play. We have found that swinging is simply a great way to enjoy life in its entirety, that includes sexual inetercourse with someone other than one's own mate and making sure that your swap sex partner (he or she) is pleasured totally upon foreplay followed by penile/vaginal intercourse, and, the couple would love to come back again and again for repeated mate swap for sexual play and vaginal intercourse.

Of course, D&J are aware that we are swingers and that we would love to swap mates and fuck the other's wife/husband. The fly in the ointment is that the wife D is sitting on the fence, and, so they may never break out of their marital shell and enjoy sex with other partners. We are going to leave it for the husband/wife, D&J, to figure out if the two are interested in expanding their sexual horizon. We will still be friends in all respects except enjoying sexual intercourse with each other's mate.

R&M