"She needs to be charmed, schmoozed, & seduced..."

[Newpants]

Ok I'm not making this up and I'm not BSing anyone but we went out with ANOTHER newbie couple last weekend. This makes 3 in the last 4 weeks. There must be something in the water or something going on.

Anyway this situation is a little different and I couldn't figure out whether to put this in my "attracted vs Not interested" thread or my other newbie thread so Mods, you can do whatever you want with this.

Anyway, what happened is we were hosting a little outing with a few experienced LS friends at a vanilla place and this newbie couple wrote to us that morning wanting to go out that night so we invited them to come along with us. (probably a mistake on our part but we were treating it as a vanilla social outing and there were no specific play plans)

Anyway the newbs were attractive and nice folks but I have seen turkeys on Thanksgiving morning that looked more comfortable and stiffs in the morgue that were more animated and talkative. Both Mrs Newpants and I made honest attempts to talk to them and make them feel comfortable and welcome and the male eventually warmed up to Mrs Newpants a bit and she did end up taking a little bit of a liking to him and I could tell he went head over heels for her.

The fem half on the otherhand sat in a chair and pretty much only spoke when asked a direct question and then answered in half sentance bullet statements. Towards the end of the evening a few of the other guests started talking about playing and the newbs bolted. No good byes, no we're leavings, just gone.

We figured that was the last we'd ever hear of them but they wrote a very long email the next day saying how much they liked us and how much they appreciated us talking to them and making them feel comfortable. And they asked us out to meet again.

We very tactfully stated that we appreciated their nice words but felt that Mrs Newbie had no interest in us and virtually no attraction or interest in me specifically. Mr Newbie wrote back and said she was attracted/interested but that she needed to charmed,schmoozed, seduced and courted more in order for anything to happen.

Ok so , these two are nice and it's real hard for us to find people Mrs Newpants likes so I am willing to go an extra step or two and I am willing to charm and schmooze and court but I did tell Mr Newbie that we need to be courted and charmed too and that even though we are a little more experienced than they are we still need to have a green light and be met part way.

So my questions are,

- how much leeway do you give newbs to warm up and be somewhat interactive?

-As the "experienced" couple in this are we really expected to make ALL the first moves?

- Are we just being played by Mr Newbie because he took a liking to Mrs Newpants and they just don't have their s--t together enough to be able to say that Mrs Newbie doesn't have an interest?

- Do newbies think that all experienced people are going to just hustle them and take it from them and therefor all they have to do is sit there and we'll do the rest?

- Was I out of line or asking too much in telling them that we don't just jump on everthing that doesn't run away and that we need to be charmed and courted too?


I guess my primary dilema is that if this was an experienced couple we would not have given them the time of day afterwards because she appeared so uninterested and had virtually no "game" whatsoever. However since they are brand new and they were visably scared and nervous and out of their element I'm willing to grant some leeway and perhaps quite a bit if warrented as they do seem like a nice couple and Mrs Newpants liked him.

[Newpants]

As I said in my earlier thread, we are not newbie hunters and we have not had much prior experience with newbs so this has been a new (but a fun and interesting) experience for us.

At this rate you can check back with us on June 1st because by then we may be the newbie experts whether we want to be or not

[padoc]

It sounds to me that the newbie is the husband and he is dragging the wife along. It was obvious by your description that she was uninterested in anybody at your gathering and she was possibly intimidated by the potential. The only way I'd even think about an additional meeting with those two was if Mrs Doc had a long conversation with Mrs Newbie to ascertain if she had any real interest in pursuing the lifestyle. That Mr Newbie has an interest is obvious but we all know that any true lifestyle couple defers to the womans call on playtime.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by padoc

That Mr Newbie has an interest is obvious but we all know that any true lifestyle couple defers to the womans call on playtime.

We may not have used those exact words but that is exactly what we told them in our follow-up message to them after they wrote us the next day and said that if she isn't interested then it ain't happening. that is when he gave the assurance that she was interested but just needed some courting and charming.

If this had been an experienced lifestyle couple that had been around the block a few times and was self-aware enough to know what they liked we would have never spoken to them again.

What I am conflicted over is how much leeway to give them for being new. I can remember when we were first starting out Mrs Newpants was so intimidated and scared and looked so scared and uninterested all the time even though she was interested in moving forward with some people.

[LikeMinds321]

I think this previous thread is pertinent to your present conflict.

How would you react if someone told you this?

Originally Posted by Newpants

I'm hoping to get your thoughts on this and let me know if this is something that might work or if it is something that would backfire in the end.

First a little background. My wife is a very attractive lady and she is interested and does participate actively in swinging. She is however quite shy and passive at first when we meet new people. She needs people to take time to charm her and flirt with her and get to know her first before she will loosen up and interact with them. If she is attracted to someone, once she loosens up socially and personally then she is good to go and a good time is had by all.

The problem is she isn't one of those shy people that appear sweet and endearing that people tend to charm and coddle untill they loosen up. She appears uninterested and snooty and some people have been downright offended by how she reacts to them when they have tried to make an initial approach. We have talked about this and she says it has been a lifelong issue and it is just part of her persona. She has made great efforts to improve it but changing your basic personality just isn't something that is a quick and easy fix.

My question is do you think it would be effective if I were to tell the people she does find attractive and interesting up front that she is a shy and passive person that needs them to make the first moves and that even though she appears uninterested that in fact she actually is interested in them?

My concern is that it would make me appear to be manipulative and some weird creepy guy trying to set his hot wife up as bait or that it would make it appear that she is some kind of high maintenance ice-queen. I'm afraid people would interpret that as me essentially saying, " my wife will play as long as you do all the work and make it all about her."

What are your thoughts? Is this a plausable idea or a bad one? If I am on the right track what would be the best way to approach this?

If someone told you their wife was attracted to you and interested in you but that you had to charm her and make all the first moves and initial effort, how would you react?

Originally Posted by Newpants

Ok so , these two are nice and it's real hard for us to find people Mrs Newpants likes so I am willing to go an extra step or two and I am willing to charm and schmooze and court but I did tell Mr Newbie that we need to be courted and charmed too and that even though we are a little more experienced than they are we still need to have a green light and be met part way.

I think you've answered your own questions.

You are willing to meet them again, especially since you know how rare it is for Mrs. Newpants to like a couple. From your past post and thread (above), I feel Mrs Newpants is similar to Mrs Newbie in that they both prefer men to be demonstrative, take charge guys who woo them. Both women seem to have a lot of similarities in that they can come off as aloof and disinterested even when they are interested.

Maybe you can give these people the patience, extra time and attention you hope others will give you and Mrs Newpants. You could end up being perfect for each other.

LM

[lovinher]

Seems somebody forgot what it's like to be a newbie. Not to worry, it happens a lot on this board. I mean no disrespect to anybody and I'm just as guilty. Taking off like that was odd. But if you can get over that and you are interested (and I think you are otherwise you wouldn't be wasting your time), the cut them some slack and see what happens. Once again, Likeminds is dead on.

[xxxboxy]

Excellent post Minds! I'm the reserved one in my relationship and mrsxxxboxy is the outgoing one. Just because I might be a little shy at first doesn't mean that I have no interest. Also I have a hard time with "Hey, nice shoes! Wanna fuck?" first time meetings with people. I guess its an odd quirk to want to know a little bit about a potential partner and to actually like them. I think a lot of newbs have a similar view point.

[slevin]

I don't like to feel like I have to work to earn a womans attention. That might come across poorly, so I'll keep blabbering for a minute for more context. Flirting, building rapport and getting to know each other are important and fun. That is part of finding new playmates or friends. Starting from a place of disinterest and being told that she just needs to be wooed? That is a position I just don't like. I much prefer to have /some/ kind of reciprocity. Some indication that shes interested at all. Otherwise it's just not fun.

We might meet them again, but if she wasn't more involved in reciprocating the flirting and rapport then I'd be done with it. It has to be fun for me too

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

I think this previous thread is pertinent to your present conflict.

How would you react if someone told you this?



I think you've answered your own questions.

You are willing to meet them again, especially since you know how rare it is for Mrs. Newpants to like a couple. From your past post and thread (above), I feel Mrs Newpants is similar to Mrs Newbie in that they both prefer men to be demonstrative, take charge guys who woo them. Both women seem to have a lot of similarities in that they can come off as aloof and disinterested even when they are interested.

Maybe you can give these people the patience, extra time and attention you hope others will give you and Mrs Newpants. You could end up being perfect for each other.

LM

yeah you definately hit that one on the head and that past thread pretty much gives me a dose of my own medicine but maybe it's dose that I need to take.

I guess that's why I'm debating this one so much. I WANT to believe there is some potential here but my eyes were telling me something completely different. I guess I do see us in these people to a certain degree.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by xxxboxy

Excellent post Minds! I'm the reserved one in my relationship and mrsxxxboxy is the outgoing one. Just because I might be a little shy at first doesn't mean that I have no interest. Also I have a hard time with "Hey, nice shoes! Wanna fuck?" first time meetings with people. I guess its an odd quirk to want to know a little bit about a potential partner and to actually like them. I think a lot of newbs have a similar view point.

Thanks for your perspective. I do realize some people are real reserved and don't show interest as well as others, that is why I am discussing/debating this.

And I do need to add that neither we nor anyone else in the group hit on them or propositioned them. From their messages since then I really think that it suprised them that noone did proposition them. I think they thought we'd be all over them and noone was and that kind of suprised them a bit. It's like they had gameplans in place for how to deal with people hitting on them but it didn't dawn on them that people would just shoot the shit with them and NOT hit on them and they didn't have a gameplan in place for that.

[xxxboxy]

Well, when you're new you don't really know what to expect. Heck even with experience you don't always know what to expect. It seems like almost everyone has a different style or technique to get down to business.

[N8ture Girl]

It's hard to say if this other lady is really interested in swinging or not, but whats the harm in going out with them one more time to get a feel for things? She could just be really shy, this is all new and scary to her and with other couples there then that too could have been very uncomfortable for her. Or her hubby is dragging her into this. You might get a better idea of their interest level if you meet them again and can talk to them with out others being around..

[C@YWMI]

In the small community the Mrs and I attend we have few lifestyle friends that we don't play with and even fewer we have any play with. but we flirt with everybody . We go to these functions to have fun and enjoy like minded people.

[Fundamental Law]

The story so far admits to multiple endings. Thus, there are no 'right answers' to your questions. At the core of your post is a central question, do they or do they not want to play?

Given an unfamiliar situation--work, play, whatever--humans tend to fall into behavior patterns learned in their childhood. Their perception of social capital profoundly affects how they respond. Something personal--I was always the youngest kid in my class and not particularly graceful as a child. Following typical schoolyard taunting, I would make it a point to fade to the back row or to the sidelines. To this day, I have to force myself into participating in activities that I have not fully mastered. You'll never find me as the first one on the dance floor, etc. My spouse is quite the opposite--gregarious, engaging and effortlessly having a great time. (One reason we have such a wonderful marriage-- she pulls us on, and I manage (social) 'risk' for both of us.)

I mention this because your newbs placed themselves in an entirely unfamiliar situation, and perhaps what you witnessed is a deeply-wired insecurity about unfamiliar social situations. It is not yours to overcome, it is theirs. But the fact they they have called you--twice--speaks volumes about their desire to overcome their past towards a different future.

You are under no obligation, of course. But Mrs. Newpants' interest speaks to a resonance that is worth a discussion amongst the two of you, and then maybe a phone call or lunch between the two ladies.

Just my $0.02.

Good luck.

[tscncpl4fun34]

I have read this whole discussion and would like to put in my 2 cents here. My wife and i resently joined the lifestyle and i have to say, while we both are out going and very personable people, the initial "shock" of discovering was very intimidating. Our host did an excellant job ,as well as the guests, on making both me and my wife feel welcome. As the night wore on we both felt comfortable enough to enguage in play with the other guests. i feel this new couple has the potential to enjoy the lifestyle, even if they only participate in soft swing. As one guest put it to my wife and i " when the time is right you will know it, if not,atleast you'll have made some new friends".

Again....just putting my 2 cents in

Good luck