Six years of frustration in the lifestyle...Need advice

[jayncyn]

New here to the board...

We have been in the lifestyle going on 6 years and it has been very frustrating. 6 years and we can count on 1 hand the # of times we have played. Now I know it's not about #'s but here is my frustration.

We have been to every club in our area several house parties and excepted/attended invitations from other couples for dinner/drinks whatever... When we meet a couple and become friends outside of the lifestyle that friendship always stays vanilla because does not want to ruin a friendship. Most of thoes friendships have ended because the "invitation" to play was never accepted by her. There has been 3 times when we have all played after developing that friendship and now she has no interest in ever talking to them again... /End Frustration #1

#2.
We have met many couples at clubs where the interest is there for all, when we are invited to play that night, she lets me know that it is time to leave. We jump in the truck to head home and she says "I would like to play with them, they are really cool". The next time we see them she acts like we have never met them and she blows them off or they do the same to us. /End #2

#3
Online and e-mails.
Occasionally she will get on the computer, brows profiles and send an email or 2, but never follows up with the email conversation. Usually followed by, Oh, I forgot.

We have talked about all this I have express all this to her. Her normal response is "I'm scared". I understand being nervous and scared. I had the same feelings the times we have played.

When we starting looking into the lifestyle, she brought it up to me. She had an experience with her friend and her friends’ husband. And again with her first husband and the same couple, all before we met.

I have asked her if this is something she really wants to do, her response is YES I really do, I'm just scared. I have told her that I have no problem dropping the whole "lifestyle" thing and not looking back. And at this point I am ready to drop it because nothing changes at all.

We talked about it again last night, I told her I was going to drop the websites and I am done. She says, OK that's fine. Then first thing this morning she tells me again that she really wants to be in the lifestyle.

My question is, am I being an ass for not wanting to be frustrated. 6 years in my book shows enough patience? Is she just pulling my chain?

Make sense?
This is not all the details just the highlights.

[JustAskJulie]

For some people the idea of swinging is way better than the reality of it. It sounds like she likes the idea of it when she's outside of it. But when she's faced with the reality of it she runs the other way.

On the few occasions where she has played, what were her reasons for not wanting to play with them again? Did she enjoy the play? Did she feel guilty or regret afterwards?

[jayncyn]

She said that she had a blast playing with the other couples, would talk about it for a few days after and would make our bedroom time very exciting.

One of the couples we have played with we are friends with. But when the subject of playing again comes up she does the normal “Hey we need to get going" or goes to sleep! Another couple we played with after developing a friendship she "heard from another couple" that they were not good people. So we don't talk to them anymore. Other excuses for the other couples.

She has never said anything about feeling guilty or regret

[JustAskJulie]

Sounds like she really doesn't want to swing but rather than being honest she's just making excuses to avoid it.

[Alura]

It sounds to me that your wife may be "suffering" from an "approach-avoidance" conflict, that we learned about in Psychology 101. One wants to do something but fear (or whatever) makes them want to avoid it, too.

My guess is that the best solution is to talk with each other for many hours and get to the root of the problem. Y'all will probably be quite surprised at what is discovered.

Bring her to the Swingers Board and read the threads (especially this one) together. Encourage her to post as well. Folks will often be able to share thoughts and ideas with a panel they'd never think to share with a spouse.

Alura

[LagniappeDC]

She's definitely sending you signals that she is interested, but at the same time, as she says, "she's scared." I would imagine there is some part of her that also wants to make you happy. Talking, talking, talking is the only way you'll get this sorted out.

I would also see if you can just go to clubs but have a rule that you will not play. That way you go without any pressure and you two have a great time. Even a place like Desire can get you out of your regular routine and give you time to absorb whether the lifestyle is for you while still being in a beautiful spot to enjoy a vacation.

You might always want to suggest that she get a "girlfriend" (not sexual) that she can go out and have drinks with and talk with.

All of these things have helped us get comfortable over the years!!

[jayncyn]

funny you say that. I did bring her to the board. The questions I have are what got us here. I showed her a few post and then did her own browsing. And her conclusion is that she is not much different than anyone else. As far as her posing on here.... dunno. I got her here and put the computer in her lap. "you can lead a horse to water...."

Has anyone else dealt with this? I'm sure someone has.

My big question is, am I wrong for wanting to drop the lifestyle thing out of frustration?

[jayncyn]

Lagniappe - We have been talking about this for 6 years. As far as going to clubs with rules that we are not going to play. We have always said, we never expect anything to happen. We have been to clubs MANY times and never even thought about playing that night. We went to have a good time, BS with people and dance. And ends up being fun for us when we get home.

The times when there is the open invite or going to club or to meet a couple because she wants to play and then the "I'm scared" or the "well so and so said" kicks in that frustrates me.

We have been to HEDO, we had a great time (did not play). Totally relaxed, met all kinds of people from all over the country, even a couple from the same city we live in.

The "girlfriend". That's another issue...lol I have been trying for years to get her to just go do something (non sexual) without me. Get a shopping buddy go to dinner, whatever. She feels guilty for taking the time away from me and the little one.

[LikeMinds321]

If she hasn't become comfortable with swinging after being involved in the lifestyle for six years, she isn't likely to change.

I think you've been very patient.

What I see in your story is what I think "swinging" has become for many couples; it is a different way to socialize and not swinging at all. It has little to do with sex with other people.

Let her know you're not having fun anymore (if this is how you feel) and get out of this game. Tell her no more meeting swingers, no more heading to clubs, or contacting people on ad sites. Drop it all, as you've suggested. And stick to your word. Leave your "lifestyle" behind.

You can always change your mind in a few years. But right now, I think she has found she can get by with not following up with people she contacts, being forgetful is a convenient excuse. She can't make up her mind, or changes her mind at the drop of a hat, and I think it's immature behavior. If she has an issue, deal with it. Don't bring it to other swingers. I'd guess that those you have played with are as frustrated as you with her behavior.

Six years is a long time. She's made her behavior habitual and if she wanted to change she would have by now. Maybe your patience has keep her from changing. Something to think about.

LM

[jayncyn]

"Maybe your patience has keep her from changing. Something to think about." Interesting thought... Can you elaborate?

I have let her know that I am no longer having fun with the lifestyle. Like you said the lifestyle has become a social event for a lot of couples, and I am OK with that. Well, I was OK with that. There are the times that I described before. You meet a couple, the light is green and then when it's go time..... Hey, we gotta go! (OK I know I have said this before and now I am just rambling...)

[slevin]

Sometimes people need an excuse to do something that they want to do. When it comes to sex, for a lot of women they want an excuse to not have to think about themselves as a slut. They mentally know they aren't a slut, but doing a sexually adventurous thing like swinging brings up some of that societal conditioning. If you're looking to her to confirm that she wants to play with a particular couple then she has nothing she can point to as an excuse. There can't be any "it just happened" to make her comfortable with it.

Are the times that you did play different than the situations where you didn't play? Did things just seem to unfold naturally when you did play? Dd you not stop to ask her on those times? I'm curious if that might have played out over the years.

All of that isn't to say she needs to be forced, or that she can't pipe up and say she doesn't want to do something. Just that she might be someone who needs to be lead more, with the knowledge that she can stop things anytime she wants.

[lustylearning]

Perhaps the easiest way to deal with it is to kindly say you're done, that it's simply too frustrating, and be done. If lifestyle titillates her, you could perhaps offer to find other ways to meet her need. Porn? Getaway weekends? Strip clubs?

If she comes back with an argument that she wants to play, and that you're not being patient enough, you can kindly (I stress kindly because she's been so avoidant) point out that actions speak louder than words, especially over a six-year period. The conversation may ultimately boil down to, "No matter what you say, I'm tired of having my chain yanked." This is not an unreasonable stand to make. Don't be afraid of it. Lifestyle is a necessity for no one.

[Newpants]

What is she like in vanilla life? Is she flighty or irresponsible or does she have a lot of trouble with follow-through in other areas of her life as well?

Are there other things in her life that she would like to do but is held back by fear?

Does she always seem to have an excuse for things other than this particular situation?

Or Is this the only area of her life where she behaves in this manner?

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by jayncyn

"Maybe your patience has keep her from changing. Something to think about." Interesting thought... Can you elaborate?

I interpreted this as something along the lines of: because you have been patient with her...not really forcing her to make a choice one way or another, she has been allowed to keep being the one at the party to make a run for it because you let her.

To go back to your OP:

Scenario #1...most people once they become "friends" they don't want to play. For some people it legitimizes the activity "Well they are our friends that we occasionally may have sex with...I'm not the kind of person that just does it with a stranger"...if you want friends, great...go find a hobby that doesn't require taking your clothes off to find people with common interests. But you/she is bound to be disappointed when the friendships end b/c they were built on the expectation of eventually having sex.

Just a question for her...how does it feel to her when those friendships end/deteriorate?

Scenario #2

This goes back to LM comment about your patience keeping her from changing the behavior.

By either not saying, "we're staying to play" or even having her be the one to actually say "sorry we've wasted your time tonight" (because that's what it is when you duck out on people right before heading to the play room).

If you tell people up front that you don't play on the first meet but would be happy to catch up with them the next time you are at the club (and keep that promise if they are someone you and your wife are interested in playing with), people can respect that. But leading them on all night long only to have her tuck tail and run before its time to put up or shut up? That's rude. Particuarly if it is someone she liked and would want to play with, what exactly makes her ignore them the next time at the club? I can understand why they would ignore you given the previous scenario, they probably think you are flakes (or other more slightly uncharitable thoughts).

Scenario #3

If she's the one in charge of emails/contact...and if after a few exchanges, she isn't interested in this person/couple...she needs to just say so. There is no harm in that.

As for your other comments: its fine to be scared. Everyone gets freaked out or scared...the activity is totally outside the box for most people and it can shake their core beliefs and it takes time to adjust.

However, if in 6 years she is still flipped out...she needs to figure out exactly what it is she is getting out of the activity. And if after all that time its been more frustrating than fulfilling then its time to cut bait and move on.

You have been patient and it hasn't made her any more comfortable or less scared...so save yourself the headaches and move on. Leave playtime as a possibility for the future, but stop going to the clubs...you obviously end up frustrated and leave a trail of frustrated people in your wake by not being up front. Walking in saying "We have no expectations...if something happens, it happens" isn't working...because there have been opportunities for things to happen and she doesn't take them.

If her previous experience was with friends, I can understand how that would be more comfortable for her...however there is a difference between having a comfort level with someone you have been friends with for say 10 years (or however long the friendship was) and meeting someone at a swing club/website. People don't want to be friends for years on end before having sex in the LS.

I think it would be interesting to hear her perspective...I'm curious about the path her thought process is taking.

[Alura]

Originally Posted by slevin

All of that isn't to say she needs to be forced, or that she can't pipe up and say she doesn't want to do something. Just that she might be someone who needs to be lead more, with the knowledge that she can stop things anytime she wants.

What a deep observation, Slevin! I couldn't agree more.

Laura loved a good leader in sex; she followed like Ginger Rogers. She, a psychology major, recognized this in herself. She considered trying to change her trait but had so much fun she didn't want to give it up. I've been known to "tip off" our playhusbands; assuring him she'd have an explosive climax if he just gently led her. She knew I told them this and approved. Once "in the mood" she could get quite aggressive. What fun!!

I think Jay and Cynthia should discuss this concept at depth!

Alura