We played with our friends and it created issues

[DocWill]

Okay, so… new member here. If I posted this in the wrong forum please move it and smack my hand

My wife and I had an experience this past weekend that’s got our heads rolling. I want to give the whole story to you all, so if you don’t like to read- you may want to move on to another post. After I tell the story (and I’ll try to provide details to keep you interested) I’ll ask some questions that hopefully a few of the more experienced members of the forum can answer.

Here it goes. My wife and I have been together for around 20 years- married for 17. We’re now both in our “early-late 30’s” as I like to say. When we first got together we dated, on more than off, for about two years. Prior to my joining the military and still not married, we had discussed, during sex, the possibilities of having a threesome with another male (I’m straight BTW). I won’t bore you with how cool that thought was to me even early in our relationship- but you should know that she was pretty much down with the idea as well. We didn’t act on the fantasies simply because we were still trying to figure out who WE were. The sex we had then was AWESOME, and probably the thing that kept us connected the most.

Now… fast forward to a short separation, quick marriage, and then her joining me in Europe. The sex was still awesome and we still talked about sharing her almost all the time. While we were in Europe we didn’t really explore anything outside of our minds, but she did mention that one of my good friends would be the ideal playmate for her. I agreed because he was a little off kilter, colorful, and open minded. We kept getting closer to asking him to join us, but the time never felt right. Eventually we moved to Washington State and lost contact with my friend for about a year. Before I keep saying this, please know that the topic of having MFM sex is almost a constant theme with us when we’re having sex. I know she wanted to do it, and I knew I wanted to do it. So, when said friend stopped in WA for a quick two-day visit, I approached him with the topic of sleeping with my wife and that I would join in and take turns according to her directions. He agreed, and we both went into the bedroom. She got on top of me first and performed oral on him for about 10-15 minutes. Then she told him that she wanted him inside her. He put a condom on and got about halfway in there… and then went limp. Too much pressure I thought, so we went back to me being inside her with her performing oral on him- in many different positions. He said he wanted to try, but by the time he got the condom out of the package he was limp again. I think this ended his ego trip- and as politely as possible he simply said that that what we were doing was a little too “freaky” for him- so he left. We never tried it again with him, but we sure as hell fucked like rabbits about that experience for years.

Fast forward to about 3 years later. Same fantasies- same great sex. While In NY I met a guy who became one of my best friends and he was a single dad that just about every woman in our unit wanted to hook up with- and with most of them he did. He has a very high libido, like myself, and just like every woman on post, he crept into our fantasies in the bedroom. The only reason we never invited him to join us was because he was having a lot of sexual partners- and both of us felt that might not be a safe play for us. However, we did get worked up one night enough to call him and ask him over- but he wasn’t home. That being said, and knowing that he’s now my best friend, I know he would have obliged us. Shortly after that unanswered phone call he got together with a mutual friend of my wife- and we both agreed that asking him in at that point would have shown poor manners. Over the next two years our friendship got stronger (he even made a pass at my wife once- didn’t offend me, it’s his nature and he was wicked drunk) so we laughed about it. Anyway, he got pretty serious with his new girl, and even asked me once if it was okay if she blew me while he was inside her. I declined not out of want, but because I didn’t want to betray my wife- playing alone was not part of our fantasy at the time. So I went home and had great sex with my wife and I told her what he asked- I was right, she wasn’t down with it. We all stayed friends for about another year until he had to transfer.

Fast forward to about 2 years. My friend and I just happened to end up in San Antonio together for school -and unaccompanied. During one drunken night I told him about my wife’s fantasy. He said, point blank- “That would have been no problem.” We laughed it out and went back home after the school was over.

Fast forward another year- My friend (we’ll call him “N” from now on) and his new wife (“L,” a woman I never met before their wedding) ended up moving to Missouri where we are. The two women hit it off pretty strong from Jump Street. Mind you, there were no “situations” worth mentioning here- just know that for the next two years we became close friends.
Another fast forward- only know that both couples hadn’t seen each other for about two years, but we all talked on the phone once or twice a week. They were coming back to Missouri after both N and I spent 15 months together in Iraq. My wife and I were happy because they were good friends of ours.

Here’s where it gets good. They actually built a house right up the street from us. N told me it was because he wanted to be around his best friend, and that L liked my wife so much that it only made sense. From that point on we’ve been hanging out once or twice a week, fishing, cooking out, or listening to music- you know, a typical suburbia military lifestyle.
---
Break- I must remind you that my wife and I during this time were still having crazy sex, still fantasizing about threesomes, and even considered going on-line to look for another couple or man to join us. We never did because the community is very small, isolated- and you really never know who’s being honest out there. I’m a Doc, she’s a teacher- the last thing we wanted was to be found out. So we kept it in the bedroom and continued to have great sex.
----
Back to the story. Sometime last July, my wife, me, N, and L decided to go to NC and rent a beach house together for a week. We always knew that N and L had a good sex life, but BOY- that girl could blow the roof off the house when she came. Anyway, one night we got the idea to go to the beach naked. Naked turned into touching and touching turned into fucking- only it was with our original partners. After the beach, we all went to our separate rooms and had AMAZING sex- again, with our original partners. While my wife and I are getting it on- she says to me “Why don’t you invite them in? I knew L was on her period, so I quickly shot that idea down—but the seed had been planted. From that point on, N and L became a part our fantasy.

Forward to two weeks ago- I often go to N’s house on Thursday nights to drink a few beers while L is at dance class. Usually, when she gets home I split- it’s a “guys” night after all, right? Only this time L has been out drinking a few with another friend of hers. She asks me not to run away- that her presence won’t disrupt our “bromance.” So I stay… and somehow the conversation turns to my wife and I having that threesome some 13 years earlier. L goes on to remind me of the night we saw each other on the beach, said it was “hot.” And because we had just been talking about the MFM experience with my wife- I told her that my wife actually wanted them to join us- but that I shot it down because she was on her period. L’s eyes got real big and she literally whisper-yelled, “That would have been so fucking hot! We have to do it!”

Now, I don’t take a person’s words at face value- especially after they’ve been drinking. But I was taken aback by her comment. I went on to say, “You mean you’d be okay with N’s penis in my wife’s box and my penis, big as it is, in your box?” She just shrugged her shoulders and N laughed. “Hmmm“I thought. I must share this revelation with the Mrs. So I went home and did. When I asked my wife if she would want that to happen, she simply said “maybe.”

Last weekend, N and L came to our house for a BBQ. We cooked, ate, drank (except for my wife who is allergic to alcohol of all things) and then played a game. We had another couple with us, but then they decided to take off at around 1230- we were all alone. L came up to me and said, “Do you remember what we were talking about at our house the other night?” I said yes. “Well… it’s going to happen tonight” she says.

Okay, so at that instant my mind freezes- you know that feeling you get when you know something extraordinary is about to happen? So I go look for my wife to tell her what L had just told me. My wife is in our bedroom taking off her heels when I explain it to her. She comes out of the bedroom and sees L waiting for her in the kitchen. N is outside on the deck where I’m promptly banished. N and I share a quick smoke and say almost next to nothing- until I see my wife walk back into the bedroom. When I get there, she’s changed into her robe and starts brushing her teeth. At the same time, L jumps in our bed and proceeds to get naked. I shut the door and look at my wife and say “What do you think?” She says, “I don’t know.” I then go on to explain, not beg that this was part of our fantasy- don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. She agrees and we open the door and see N and L on the bed- L is performing oral on N. My wife lies down next to N and I get on top of her- it took less than one second to get inside my wife. Soon the room is full of low purrs and some loud, but short, screeches. “We’re having a foursome” I say in my mind. Then, L, who is in the middle receiving entry from N starts sucking on my wife’s nipples. I start feeling L’s body (wicked tight) and slip my thumb into her womanhood. After about a minute of that, L just mounts my wife and starts licking, sucking, and kissing anything she can. She dismounts and goes back to her side facing my wife and I. I enter my wife again, but now L is lifting herself on top of my wife by hooking her own ankles around my head. She positions right on top and right in front of my wife’s vagina. My wife tells me “Go ahead and eat her” and actually starts pushing my face down there. I ask N if this is okay and he said it was- so I went to town on L for about 5 minutes until she was about to cum. L pulls my head up, grabs my cock and starts pulling me closer to her vagina. Now, I’m not sure about this because this wasn’t something my wife and I talked about- so I kind of back away and reenter my wife. L turns to N and immediately mounts him. My wife mounts me… and that’s where it pretty much ended. We all laid there naked for about an hour without saying a word. My wife finally explains that everyone should probably get going before the sun got up and our kids started asking questions. They agreed, got dressed, and N and I shook hands… that was that.

After they left, my wife and I had sex two more times- simply because our experience was THAT hot.

DUM DUM DUMDUM- the next day. So, when I woke up a few hours later with what I felt was a perma-boner, I immediately got a cold shower. My wife and I had to go to the store- not only to pick some things up, but to debrief. Along the way we both agreed that we had a little “buyer’s remorse,” but that it wasn’t bad enough to be concerned about- much like any person would feel after a night of uncommon sex. We assured each other that we were okay with it, went shopping, and got ready for her party. Now, this is how I knew my wife loved it (her first lesbian experience, mind you): she put on this super sexy dress with 4” pumps- classy, but the dress was her way of saying “I’m feeling pretty confident about this whole thing.” After the party we had teenager sex for the rest of the night.

Forward to yesterday- even though L was at the party, the two women didn’t get a chance to debrief. So L was at my house when I pulled in the driveway and the women were on the back porch talking. I caught the tail-end o the conversation where L was explaining that she was sorry and embarrassed for jumping into our bed. She seemed a little foggy about the experience but remembered mounting my wife. Both of us assured her that her we were down with what happened and that we didn’t have any regrets. L seemed to be more concerned with how she acted leading up to the play than she was about the play itself. Anyway, she said there’s no “awkwardness” and that her and N discussed some of the specifics the other day. However, she did say that we were all “maybe too close” to have done something like that. With that she smiled and walked out to her car. My wife and I went back to our room to have sex again .

Okay, so now that the LONG story is over- we officially broke our swinger cherries. As far as I know, everyone had a great time- especially my wife. But I got to thinking- and that thinking led me to this site, so here are my questions:

1. For those of you who are experienced with this- how common is it to hook up with one’s best friends?

2. Based on the story- did we do anything wrong by just “letting it happen” the way it did?

3. For those of you who have swung with close friends- what are your experiences, and was it/is it a good idea to continue?

4. How concerned should we be with L’s comment: “Maybe we’re all too close”? Was she having the normal remorse or was she trying to make sure that it would never happen again? I must remind you, this was not L’s first, second or third experience with this kind of thing, but it was her first time with N. She’s usually been the Unicorn in the past with other men. L is also very open about sex, and it was her, after all, that instigated the encounter- pretty hard, I might add. Last thing- L is pretty demure when she’s not drinking, but once she’s had a few she wants to rock and roll. Could her comment have been merely an attempt to keep her modesty intact? I’m pretty certain N is fine with it.

5. Both my wife and are open to doing it again. In fact, my wife said that she wished a lot more would have happened, but was afraid to ask. I agree- what’s the best way to approach L and N- one on one, together, or not at all?

6. Last question- N and L are going through some rough patches- mostly it’s about a lack of sex on his part from her perspective, but because I know N so well, he’d tell you that it’s because he she’s still in the “everything must be perfect” stage. They’ve been married for about 6 years- but they’ve talked about splitting up in the past. Should we not entertain the idea of doing this again until we’re sure they’re strong enough as a couple to do it? I only ask because I know the beer will be out this Friday- and with beer comes the lower inhibitions- and that means L will want to rock and roll again.

Any advice or thoughts are most welcome. Again, I apologize for the “book” if you’ve made it this far. My wife and I are pretty certain that is something we like and can deal with- even make us stronger as a couple, but we certainly don’t want to ruin our friendship with N and L- or cause problems that might ruin their relationship.

Regards,

DocWill

[suite91]

Doc, I gotta say, I usually shy away from the marathon posts but yours kept me interested the whole time. Nice job.

Your story is a lot like ours in some ways so I can relate. Most, and certainly the best of our swinging has been with close friends. It started with my best friend when we were 19/20 and today most but not all our play friends are close friends.

To answer your specific questions:
1. I'm not sure of the statistics on this but for us starting with someone you know and trust was easiest and worked out well.

2. I don't think you've done anything wrong.

3. Our experiences with close friends have been excellent, but there is one glaring example in our history where thing went badly, not because of the sex (the friendship dissolved over other issues) but if we had it to do over we wouldn't have played with her.

Many people will tell you it's a bad idea to play with friends. That there are plenty of 'real' swingers out there who know the game and play by it's rules. That the personal and emotional connection of friendship can needlessly complicate things when it's just suppose to be about sex. They are right of course, but for us it's a hazard we're willing to overcome.

4. My interpretation is that L is giving you an out. A legitimate excuse not to continue in case you or your wife have regrets. Based on what you've told us I don't think she's having any remorse (except maybe rushing) but she might think you do.

5. Glad to hear you're on the same page. I tend to let the women chat about it, but it should be pretty easy to say 'That was fun!' and message would be received.

6. DAMN! And we were doing so well! THIS is a problem. A major one. If there is instability or stress on thier marriage, particularly surrounding sex!, then swinging will make it worse not better and you'll be in the middle of it. This revelation is a deal breaker I'm afraid. You cannot continue with them unless they (and you) are solid - and how would you know?


Doc, you're right about swinging making you stronger as a couple. It has for us. The key is a strong relationship and the secret to a strong relationship (in my humble opinion) is Honesty - which includes not keeping secrets - Communication, and Respect.

Good luck and sorry for the bad news at the end!

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by DocWill

1. For those of you who are experienced with this- how common is it to hook up with one’s best friends?

2. Based on the story- did we do anything wrong by just “letting it happen” the way it did?

3. For those of you who have swung with close friends- what are your experiences, and was it/is it a good idea to continue?

4. How concerned should we be with L’s comment: “Maybe we’re all too close”? Was she having the normal remorse or was she trying to make sure that it would never happen again? I must remind you, this was not L’s first, second or third experience with this kind of thing, but it was her first time with N. She’s usually been the Unicorn in the past with other men. L is also very open about sex, and it was her, after all, that instigated the encounter- pretty hard, I might add. Last thing- L is pretty demure when she’s not drinking, but once she’s had a few she wants to rock and roll. Could her comment have been merely an attempt to keep her modesty intact? I’m pretty certain N is fine with it.

5. Both my wife and are open to doing it again. In fact, my wife said that she wished a lot more would have happened, but was afraid to ask. I agree- what’s the best way to approach L and N- one on one, together, or not at all?

6. Last question- N and L are going through some rough patches- mostly it’s about a lack of sex on his part from her perspective, but because I know N so well, he’d tell you that it’s because he she’s still in the “everything must be perfect” stage. They’ve been married for about 6 years- but they’ve talked about splitting up in the past. Should we not entertain the idea of doing this again until we’re sure they’re strong enough as a couple to do it? I only ask because I know the beer will be out this Friday- and with beer comes the lower inhibitions- and that means L will want to rock and roll again.

Any advice or thoughts are most welcome. Again, I apologize for the “book” if you’ve made it this far. My wife and I are pretty certain that is something we like and can deal with- even make us stronger as a couple, but we certainly don’t want to ruin our friendship with N and L- or cause problems that might ruin their relationship.

Regards,

DocWill

#1. I don't have a clue how often it happens but I have a suspiscian it happens a lot more than we know about in the vanilla world. We know a number of swingers that started exploring the lifestyle after having some kind of encounter with vanilla friends and it lead them to the lifestyle. Most of these people no longer play with their traditional friends now and would advise others not to play with their traditional friends as well.

#2. I don't think consenting adults having consensual sex is wrong. It's how you deal with it afterwards that will determine if any problems come out of it or not down the road.

#3. We have not done this and generally have our own rules against seducing vanillas friends/coworkers etc although there is one set of friends that we might go for it if given the chance.

#4. I would take that comment seriously even if for no other reason that she felt it was serious enough to come to your house to talk about it afterwards. Any time someone is making appologies or checking to see if "things are OK" afterwards, it is probably a good idea to take a step back and reevaluate.

#5. I would suggest holding off on #5 untill questions #4 and #6 are thoroughly answered and it is determined by all parties that it is safe to continue.

#6. I would see some of these things as redflags and as reasons to be concerned. Swinging will bring out any cracks in the foundation of a relationship and the fact that you are aware of some issues in the marriage IS valid reason to be concerned.

I would also be concerned with the role that alcohol is playing in this. As a general rule, if it is something that you wouldn't do stone-cold sober then you probably shouldn't be doing it drunk either. I'm not saying that people can't have a drink or two but there is a big difference between agreeing to do something stone-cold sober and then having a drink or two VS something that you would NOT agree to do sober but then you do it anyway when you are drunk.


My suspiscion is that there are probably things that go on between friends more than what is talked about in polite circles but as a general rule many experienced swingers would discourage an ongoig sexual relationship between traditional friends. The potential damages to both marriages as well as the friendship is great and great sex can be had with other actual swingers that you can meet in the lifestyle without having the risks that traditional friends do.

The draw that vanilla freinds have with people just starting out is that we all have some traditional friends that you already have a physical attraction to and a level of comfort with. HOWEVER moving into the sexual realm with them can cause great danger to both marriages and to the friendship.

If you were to look for new friends within the lifestyle you would also be able to find people that you are attracted to and are comfortable with and the sex can be just as hot (actually hotter because you are not worrying about this kind of stuff in the back of your head) and the risk of damaging marriages and friendship is not as great.

Just some things to think about.

[DocWill]

Thanks for your quick and insightful responses.

After some more thought about the experience, more reading on this site, and some conversation with my wife, we both decided that continuing the “extra” in the relationship with N and L would be pretty unwise. I think the whole experience was the “perfect storm” for everyone involved, and though we were all fairly sober at the time- it probably wouldn’t have happened without the alcohol at the beginning of the night. When my wife and I first experienced our tryst in the MFM example, everyone involved was completely sober. That being said, I know my wife and I could get naked and have group sex without so much as a drop of alcohol, but I don’t think L could do the same. I think both of them are still trying to figure out who they are (well, I think L knows who she is, she just hasn’t admitted it to herself yet) as a couple.

Anyway, the next thing my wife and I have to figure out is how to accommodate our passion for shared sex in an environment where the picking is pretty slim. We’re two hours in all directions from a major city center, and I think there’s only one off-prem club in the area- and that’s still an hour away. Hooking up with singles or couples in the area is pretty much not going to happen because of our jobs. There are other options, but I don’t think we’re ready to get involved with complete strangers just yet. It seems like a lot of work to satisfy an indulgence and the risk seems like it would be more than the reward.

Thanks again for the replies. We’re still going to hang out here and learn, and as we walk this path we’ll keep the updates coming.

Regards,

DocWill

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by DocWill

There are other options, but I don’t think we’re ready to get involved with complete strangers just yet. It seems like a lot of work to satisfy an indulgence and the risk seems like it would be more than the reward.

,

DocWill

The following is an unauthorized quote from a poster on these boards named LikeMinds321 who was responding to another poster who also stated that they thought they needed to be friends with someone for a long period of time and they couldn't have sex with someone they didn't know real well. I think this is one of the most accurate statements ever made in these forums and although she was making this statement in reference to another situation involving other people I think it applies to your statement above perfectly.


Here it is - Quote

It isn't uncommon for couples venturing out to want sex with someone they can call good friends. I believe this desire is brought on by wanting to feel good about oneself when swinging. The Friends-With-Benefits plan is designed to save oneself from feeling like a lowlife who will have sex with a "stranger" two hours after meeting them.

We planned our launch into swinging this way. We soon learned how silly that idea was, for many reasons that are discussed throughout these forums.

You can be good, clean, wholesome, intelligent, sexual people and still find you have the capacity to attrack and be attracked to good, clean, wholesome, intelligent, sexual people you want to swing with in a matter of hours (or minutes) after meeting them. You will, in time, develop a skill at recognizing who those people are.

I suggest meeting other swingers through swinger ad sites or by visiting a swinger club. Get a feel for who swings. See how well you do in social settings.

-Unquote

Again, that was Likeminds321 in responding to similar statement on another thread, but I believe it applies here perfectly and is better than anything I or anyone else could have said.

My reason for quoting that statement is I believe you are inaccurate in believing you are incapable of playing with someone you recently met and that the work involved and risk would outweigh the benifits. IMHO the risk and effort will be greater for less benifit in trying to deal with all the complexities of having a sexual relationship with traditional friends that just live down the street rather than meeting swingers that already have their shit together and know what they are doing.

In the long run it is often a lot easier, simpler and less painfull to meet someone that you have no other emotional investment with and have a night of sexual fun and walk away without any other entaglements and confusion such as what you are experiencing now.

That's just my opinion but our experience has been exactly as what LikeMinds321 described. We said we could never have sex with strangers but once you meet someone that you all share a mutual attraction and chemistry it just happens and the same passion and intensity are there, just not the second-guessing and emotional turmoil afterwards.

[JustAskJulie]

What's up Doc!?

Sorry had to. Anyway, I read your post (most of it)... ok the important stuff. What you experienced isn't terribly uncommon but I can tell your real worry is two-fold... the most important is not losing friends... the second is will/should this continue... and ok (3fold) 3rd is this a risk to your friends relationship. All of these questions show just how much you care about this other couple as people and as friends.

I'd suggest that if things seem or feel awkward when you are all together (in any way) you bring it up and talk it out. As far as should this happen again, let things go naturally. I wouldn't push for it for two reasons. One her comment about being too close may well have been a point that they (or she) felt it unwise to allow it to happen again lest it hurt your friendship (and I don't think that's a risk ANY Of you want to take). Add to that their rocky relationship and especially the fact that it's rocky due to sexual issues and you've got a time bomb on your hand that you don't want to be the ones to set off.

Treat them as you always have, allow things to be as they've always been. Don't push and don't do anything that would make things awkward. If the talking that's been done is all there is to do then leave it alone. If things are still feeling awkward talk it out and get everyone's feelings out in the open and deal with them.

[Lascivious L&L]

If you want to know what L meant ask her! Communicate. There is no other way to find out.

I have to disagree with the feeling that having sex with strangers is just as good as with friends. Not for my wife and I. We've each had a number of relationships before meeting and we both did a fair amount of dating. Sex with strangers can be hot, but it lacks depth. We find sex with strangers to be so-so sex. Being older, experienced, in love, and having had plenty of stranger sex we no longer want it.

However meeting new people means at some point having stranger sex. We at least like to get to know to a point where there can be some connection. And we don't like one night stands. If we meet new people, we want to get to know them and have sex many times, so it can develop into depth sex.

Of course any such rule has exceptions, and we have enjoyed them. But for the most part we like friends sex.

[DiscreetDesires]

While we believe that great sex tends to be between those we are friends with, or have a closer connection with, we tend to steer clear of vanilla friends.
The only reason being, is that we cherish the friendships so much, that we wouldn't want "just for fun" sex to cause any problems in either marriage or the friendships.
Can it be done? Sure it could, with the right couples, but we prefer not to just incase.
We do however make closer friends of those who are swingers. We prefer to know the people that we play with on a more personal level, spending time with them in our swinger activities and in real life.
Like was mentioned by Lascivious, we prefer the depth in opposition to the one night stands.

If you don't mind my asking, what part of Missouri do you live in?
There may not be many swinger clubs in your area, but there may be some social groups that are closer to you.
Also, unless you are "in the know", some clubs and groups are fairly "underground" just due to the small town issues of not wanting people to find out what you do in your private sexual life.
Discretion is a must for alot of people in the lifestyle due to their jobs or their standing in the community.

[DocWill]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Since the original encounter occurred there are a couple things worth mentioning to add some more insight to the situation.
The next weekend “N” and “L” came over to our house for our weekly card game. My wife had her monthly visitor so there were no expectations on our part. Anyway, as the night progressed the topic came up and “L” went back into demure mode where she apologized for acting “that way.” My wife and I both assured her that it was all good- and that being open about your sexuality and exploring fantasies is a fun benefit of being alive. We also stressed the point that doing what we did didn’t make anyone at the table a “bad person” or a “cheat,” and we made that point because “L” was having issues with her religious beliefs. Needless to say the conversation turned to one about morality. That’s when “N” spoke up for the first time about the situation. He went on to explain to “L” that she contradicts herself all the time and that he has no idea where she’s coming from or how to take her for face value. Remember, “L” is the one who admitted to being in several FMF situations before, has no problem with public sex (another story), instigated our experience together, and talks a good game when the party is on.

So the night ended without any issues and “L” agreed that she needed to work some things out in her own mind to process the experience further.

Since we had that conversation, “L” has invited my wife and I back for a foursome on two different occasions. I spoke with “N” about it the last time she asked us and he said that the two of them talked about it, were very excited about it, and that my wife and I were the only ones they’d be willing to experiment with- to include full swap. So it appears that they worked their issues out and had an adult conversation about it.

However (and you KNEW that was coming), my wife and I are pretty decided that we don’t want to get involved again. Now, it’s not about the attraction or the excitement- that’s all there. In fact it’s very refreshing to know that another couple likes and trusts you enough to explore very private and intimate things- an almost perfect situation, but the inconsistency “L” shows with her personality and perceived “guilt” is something my wife and I don’t want to mess with- even after the fact that they both seem to be “okay” with it now. The primary reason for this is because it does take “L” a few drinks to loosen up- and while my wife, me, and “N” could do this sober, we doubt that “L” has the capacity to actually believe that she’s truly open to a foursome, or that it’s “okay” to want to explore, and that there’s really nothing wrong with it outside of the social norms without the added effects of alcohol.

So there it is- you have four people all willing to have fun, but one of them just doesn’t give us the vibe that she’d REALLY be okay with it after all was said and done. We don’t want to be a part of someone’s fantasy if they’re not 100% sure that it’s what they really want—or more importantly, that it’s something they’ll regret the next day when the adrenaline and orgasms are gone.

[lustylearning]

Originally Posted by DocWill

We don’t want to be a part of someone’s fantasy if they’re not 100% sure that it’s what they really want—or more importantly, that it’s something they’ll regret the next day when the adrenaline and orgasms are gone.

Wise words.

[lizandtom]

Originally Posted by DocWill

So there it is- you have four people all willing to have fun, but one of them just doesn’t give us the vibe that she’d REALLY be okay with it after all was said and done. We don’t want to be a part of someone’s fantasy if they’re not 100% sure that it’s what they really want—or more importantly, that it’s something they’ll regret the next day when the adrenaline and orgasms are gone.

You've just hit the nail on the head; you go at the slowest persons pace. I suggest not outright dismissing play with this couple just because she's tepid at this point.

Reading through your posts, it appears like you are one to to 'think everything through' whereas it took probably 10 years to put a plan into motion, and now that you're a bit more comfortable with actual action instead of just fantasy, you're being quick to dismiss playing with your friends because they're not 'caught up' to you two.

Be patient and put the ball in their court by simply discussing with them that when they feel they're ready to go the sex route again, you'll be there for them if they wish.

Chill out about it, go with the flow, and stop over thinking everything thats going on. Time in itself will change a lot of perspective for you on this. In the meantime if you and your wife want to go exploring elsewhere, then by all means, variety is the spice of life.