"I will change that!"

[Hedo2forus]

My wife and I have been in the lifestyle for about three years now and we are having a great time. My wife is straight. There is one thing that really bothers us. On several occasions when we have met couples where the wife is Bi, one of the couples will say something about my wife like, she doesn't know what she is missing! Or, You don't know what you are missing!. One other quote is, I will change that! My wife has no bi tendency's what so ever. She says it would be like a man telling me he will change me to like being Bi. People seem to really push the Bi issue on us. We do meet couples knowing the wife is Bi, we have played with couples where the wife is Bi and the Bi issue never came up. We have on our profile that my wife is straight and we make it known before we meet, We find it very uncalled for and rude!! Am I on the right track here, or is this something that we should expect as the norm? Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Tony and Di

[timswife28]

People should respect your decisions. I think they are rude to make assumptions that they will change both your minds.

[Newpants]

We wrestled with this issue for years ourselves so I know exactly where you are coming from. Since this has been such a sensitive topic for us and such a long and hard fought battle forgive me if I carry on and on.

What has helped us the most is to get out of the mindset of absolutes and not speaking in absolutes. By that I mean that my wife has evolved over time from thinking of herself as hetersexual into thinking of herself as 'sexual'. If she and another person have an attraction and chemistry and they want to touch and pleasure each other they will whether that person be male or female. The difference is she is attracted to more males than females and in the end she will want to complete the act with a male and often just views females as some extra stimulation and contact.

We have also changed how we communicate with others and watched the words we use. We/she used to say she was straight. When the words straight in a female come out, the brains shut off and people move along. When we say she plays according to her attraction and connection people continue to interact with us and we play according to the mood and chemistry at the time, people are ok with that and continue to interact with us and in the end they are usually satisfied with how things went.

If someone comes right out and asks if she is interested in a particular female or not she is open and upfront with them about her level of attraction for that female and what she may or may not do with them.

I would never advise someone to try to portray themselves as something they are not but do think about what words you use to describe yourselves and be carefull when you think or talk in absolutes. Does she truly want no contact or connection with females AT ALL or does she enjoy or at least tolerate some level of attention and contact with other women? Focus on what IS possible and not what is NOT possible.

For us when we changed her profile from straight to bi-cur and stopped telling people upfront that she is straight and just played things by ear and let the chips fall into place everything worked out fine and we weren't the pariahs that we were when we felt we had to have all those disclaimers about her orientation.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by Hedo2forus

On several occasions when we have met couples where the wife is Bi, one of the couples will say something about my wife like, she doesn't know what she is missing! Or, You don't know what you are missing!. One other quote is, I will change that! My wife has no bi tendency's what so ever. She says it would be like a man telling me he will change me to like being Bi.

I agree with your wife on that one, if it is the male half of a couple that is giving you the bad time and says "I will change that" or "try it you'll like it" then tell him that is like a gay guy telling him that if he lets him ass-ram him for a nite that it will turn him bi and that he will like it

Now to be fair and honest, one of the reasons there so many people are making statements like that is because there is some truth to it for many women. There are lots of women that considered themselves completely straight and once they let themselves lower their "societal forcefield" about female bisexuality they found that they in fact did appreciate the beauty and sensuality that women have even though they did still remain their fundamental heterosexual state.

My wife is a living example of that as are quite of few of our lifestyle friends so it really does happen.

How many of us at one point or another swore we would never be swingers yet here we are. The same is true with female bisexuality, many people once they got into a culture where it is accepted and nurtured learned that it was enjoyable to them at least to a certain degree. However that degree is very individual and there is a lot of variation between individual women.

That all being said, each person has a right to not be pressured, cajoled or manipulated into any sexual contact that they are not wanting to do. Just as no woman accepts or welcomes the sexual advances of all men, nor should women be expected to welcome the advances of women either. If you are not interested you are not interested regardless of gender.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by Hedo2forus

We do meet couples knowing the wife is Bi, we have played with couples where the wife is Bi and the Bi issue never came up.

Tony and Di

This has fortunately also been the norm for us as well so don't let the fact that the other woman is bi stop you from contacting interacting with them.

It is my opinion that most women in the lifestyle are fundamentally heterosexual and only list themselves as bi because they are open to the idea of some form of female contact to some degree and because listing yourselves as straight often puts you into people's "ignore" file.

It has also been our experience that even with very bisexual women that if they are properly charmed, flirted with and engaged by a male that they are attracted to, they often don't require any F/F contact and it doesn't bother them if they don't get any girl-girl time. It's when the guys just sit around like lumps on logs that the girls turn to each other for attention.

Also most true bisexual women have no interest in "changing" a straight girl or of making any unwelcome advances. It has been our experience that most of the unwanted pressure has not come from the bi women themselves but from their husbands. If that occurs just use the assramming example I used before and that usually shuts them up

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by Hedo2forus

We have on our profile that my wife is straight and we make it known before we meet,

As I stated before, I would take a close look at how you word things and how you present yourselves. When you use the word straight, many people's brains turn off and they automatically file you away in the "ignore" bin even though they may be perfectly happy with you and your preferences once they get to know you.

When people hear the word straight they often envision someone who will not tolerate any kind of interaction or connection with another woman at all. Many bi women are happy with no or at least very little actual sexual contact with women but still feel a need to have a personal connection and chemistry and acceptance from them.

When they see the word straight they envision another women that might be prettier, skinnier and sexier than them only having an interest in their husband and only giving him their attention. I know this may be an earth-shaking revolution but women can be pretty territorial For many women, if they are going to let another woman into their bed, they at least want to get something out of it for themselves and many times even just some personal and emotional connection and chemistry is enough even if they carpet-munch on each other.

As I said before, rather than listing the things she won't do, list instead the things you are interested in as a couple. Focus on the positive and not the negatives.

I will get bashed for this I realize but if she is the least bit ok with the thought of the perfect woman laying an index finger on her right elbow under the perfect circumstances, then consider listing her as bi-cur instead of straight.

And instead of telling people right off the bat that she is straight and has no interest in women, instead say that your primary preference is fullswap/softswap and that you play to the degree of the chemistry and connection that there is between the individual people.

If it ends up that your wife does not have any attraction or sexual chemistry with the other woman then that is how the chips fell.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by Hedo2forus

Am I on the right track here, or is this something that we should expect as the norm? Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Tony and Di

Unfortunately yes it is something that you should expect as the norm even if for no other reason than so you can be prepared for it and know how to deal with it.

At this point in time in this culture and especially in the swinging subculture specifically, there is a very strong expectation and fascination with female bisexuality.

The bad news is there a lot of people coming into the lifestyle that never would have considered swinging years ago and are very squeemish and uncomfortable with the thought of any kind of swapping of parners but rather see F/F as the end-all-be-all of swinging. Many others get into the lifestyle simply to explore their bisexuality and don't have that much interest in "real swinging". Many others are just lemmings following the "GIRLS GONE WILD" fad and get titillated watching girls dance and frollick but have no real interest in actual swinging.

The good news is there are real swingers out there that do not require a lot of significant F/F play and are respectfull and understanding of people's preferences. If you pay attention to how you market yourselves and how people percieve how you describe yourselves you can open doors to finding these kinds of people.

And do be prepared to deal with narrow-minded people that will make dumb and insensitive remarks.

[Alura]

About a century ago (or so) I met a lesbian in Europe who told a group of us that one of her major difficulties was with men who would say, "Just give me half a chance and I'll make you heterosexual." Sigh...

Alura

[Newpants]

I'll end my little female bisexuality novel with some random thoughts

- for every one post I see where people are complaining that everyone is bisexual and that straight people can't find playmates I see 10 posts that complain that there aren't any "real bisexual" women out there. That tells me that most women in the lifestyle are not lesbians or even hardcore bisexuals and that most are probably primarily heterosexual.

- You tend to catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If you state what you do like and will do, that will attract more people that if you state what don't like and what you won't do.

- As a guy you can actually play a big role in this. If you look sharp, get out and socialize, flirt, dance, compliment and show women attention and acceptance, they probably won't even notice your wife is even there let alone insist on doughnut-bumping with her.

- This is a little tricky and some will disagree but do encourage your wife to do some soulsearching and come to terms with how she truly does view and feel about women. It may turn out that she does enjoy some kinds of interactions with women whether it just be some flirting and personal conversation to some light touching/massaging to some kissing or playing with toys etc and then relate that back to focusing on the positive as opposed to the negative.

(as a personal example my wife considered herself extremely straight and had no interest in sex with other women but she loved to play with toys with other women and if someone asked her if she would like to have sex with them she would say no but that she had some toys that they could play with and that was often good enough. You wife may have some similar kink that can give someone an open door that they will consider)

Again sorry for going into such a manifesto but this has been a very sensitive issue for us as well and this is how we have delt with it. Your mileage will vary but it sounds like you are having your own successes as well.

[Hedo2forus]

This is the female half of HEDO2forus. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know that there are many others out there with the same dilemma. I feel that in the last 3 years I have grown and have become much more comfortable with myself and others. I even have encounter several women that I have enjoyed a dance and some hugs and kisses with. However, it seems that just when I do get comfortable someone has to make the comment of "changing me, or don't know what you are missing" and I find myself right back in the no zone. Perhaps in time I will get used to this and it will not bother me as much. Just knowing that others have the same problem is a help.
Thanks again for your responses.

Di

[spiritualuk]

How rubbish that someone would just ignore your preferences or constantly ask / push for things that are off limits, however it does happen, in which case I’d find someone your more suited to, for example if you’re a straight women then maybe find another couple with a straight women, people often seem to ignore your desires, lie to you, are cheating on someone, or whatever else, in my experience its best not to dwell or get upset about such facts but keep positive and move on to someone better and more suited, if someone cant accept your (not bi) then let hem go and find someone who is bi, and you go and find someone who is willing to accept your not, stay happy, the more you let subject like that eat at you the more negative you and your partner will begin to feel, so find someone more suited and understanding and that wont be a problem.

[Chicup]

Personally I think people are ignoring an aspect of this.

There is a general feeling among many that all females are at least somewhat bisexual. There is even some research to back this up, though I think its a far more complex issue than that.

Generally I think its meant not because they are disrespecting boundaries but because they think they will HELP the other woman break out of her hang up/shell. I can understand where this comes from because I've met woman who claim to be straight only because they are embarrassed to bring up their bi-side. Its also far more socially acceptable to say something like that to another woman than a man saying it to a man. Bi is trendy after all for females.

So unless the woman is 'bi-furious' and won't let it drop, I wouldn't dwell on it much, and I don't think there would be much problem.

[couplers]

This is Petra. If there is no attraction to an individual, initiating sexual activity isn't going to change that. And I hate pushy people. Being pushed into something makes most people push back, even if they would otherwise be receptive.


But as a woman who didn't have her first experience with another woman until recently, in my late twenties, I can say that things can change. It just really takes the right person, the right situation, and some time. But although I enjoy my current female partner, I'm not attracted to woman generally much at all. The turn on came to me by watching hubby having sex with other women, getting the jealousy "kick," and wanting to participate in pleasing him. It slowly went from there; now Clair and I are comfortable together, even just the two of us.

[Edison Carter]

Susan here: I play bisexually, yet it would never occur to my to try anything with a woman who had declared herself as straight. We have a play couple we've seen for almost three years and she is straight. Never, ever occurred to me take advantage of a 'moment' or get her to experiment. Perhaps that's why they've been regular playmates for so long, she knows I won't challenge a very important boundary for her.

[Tia Vampire]

I the female half, have been told this many times myself. Unless the bi woman is willing to put a strap-on on to be with me, Sorry it's not happening. She can live out her fantasy of being with a woman by being with me, but I have to have my average size hard penis. Just as I can not change what she enjoy sexually, she can not change what I enjoy either.