"You have to charm my wife and make the first moves"...How would you react to this?

[Newpants]

I'm hoping to get your thoughts on this and let me know if this is something that might work or if it is something that would backfire in the end.

First a little background. My wife is a very attractive lady and she is interested and does participate actively in swinging. She is however quite shy and passive at first when we meet new people. She needs people to take time to charm her and flirt with her and get to know her first before she will loosen up and interact with them. If she is attracted to someone, once she loosens up socially and personally then she is good to go and a good time is had by all.

The problem is she isn't one of those shy people that appear sweet and endearing that people tend to charm and coddle untill they loosen up. She appears uninterested and snooty and some people have been downright offended by how she reacts to them when they have tried to make an initial approach. We have talked about this and she says it has been a lifelong issue and it is just part of her persona. She has made great efforts to improve it but changing your basic personality just isn't something that is a quick and easy fix.

My question is do you think it would be effective if I were to tell the people she does find attractive and interesting up front that she is a shy and passive person that needs them to make the first moves and that even though she appears uninterested that in fact she actually is interested in them?

My concern is that it would make me appear to be manipulative and some weird creepy guy trying to set his hot wife up as bait or that it would make it appear that she is some kind of high maintenance ice-queen. I'm afraid people would interpret that as me essentially saying, " my wife will play as long as you do all the work and make it all about her."

What are your thoughts? Is this a plausable idea or a bad one? If I am on the right track what would be the best way to approach this?

If someone told you their wife was attracted to you and interested in you but that you had to charm her and make all the first moves and initial effort, how would you react?

[MrsPandMe]

I suppose that would depend on the man trying to woo your wife. Myself I am pretty flirty and if I knew a girl was playing coy I might enjoy the challange. However if your wife is really sending off negative vibes I wouldn't be too surprised if a majority of men didn't press the issue, and those that would might not be the kind of men you want naked with your bride. If the problem is that she is ultra-shy and nervous as hell but gets over it then she may find that if she is up front about it with potential friends they might try a little harder. As for me, in the absence of a direct indication to the contrary, if I receive an obvious "no" vine I would take it at face value and back off.

Mr. P

[Chicup]

Its always going to be a challenge. I have a similar issue, though the Mrs. doesn'tt appear to be snooty, she just seems very uncomfortable and uninterested and people assume I'm forcing her and she doesn't want to be there.

I think if its a new couple trying to tell them on the side can be problematic, because I've heard similar thing from guys who's wife DIDN'T want to be there. Its one of those 'convince my wife to swing' type of things.

Your best bet is to try to work on her self confidence, which is hard being we are talking a basic personality trait, but quite satisfying to see it improve.

[The Fuse]

We met a couple just like you at a party a couple of weeks ago. Actually, we only met the male half. When we tried to approach them together, his wife physically turned away. We figured she was not only not interested, but rude.

I got a chance to dance with the male half later, which I wasn't turning down (he was the hottest guy in the place) and I mentioned that his wife didn't seem interested. He explained that she is very shy. I never could get her introduced to my husband that night, but we've exchanged a few emails since. She didn't remember who we were and he wanted to show her a face picture of my husband to see if she might be interested. So far, no reply. She may not be interested or just not replied yet. Who knows.

I understand if someone is shy. I married a shy man. In the case of this couple, we knew she was not being coerced, because they were obviously involved with another couple and she was looking happy about it. For the OP, perhaps that's a good way of letting other potentials know your wife is willing. If they see you with others at a party or read a certification that makes it clear she's shy but happily in the lifestyle, that could help.

You can also help by trying to create situations that your wife is more comfortable with, whether that's a phone call, coffee date, or if she comes along with you to be introduced at a party.

For us, since Mr. Fuse is not comfortable with a woman who shows no sign of interest, probably nothing will work. I don't expect anything to happen with that couple we met, even if it turns out she thinks Mr. Fuse is attractive. He is improving in the flirting and courting area, but probably wouldn't be up for that much of a challenge.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by MrsPandMe

However if your wife is really sending off negative vibes I wouldn't be too surprised if a majority of men didn't press the issue, and those that would might not be the kind of men you want naked with your bride.
Mr. P

That has definately occured in both ways you have described. Nice normal decent guys often take her appearance as uninterested and move on while some guys who are ultra assertive/aggressive are often the ones that keep digging along and are successfull even though I think they are assholes. As long as she is ok with it and they are of her choosing I often let her do as she wishes as she often does prefer more aggressive guys.

the problem is most of the women that are with aggressive guys think I'm some sort of pussy or not interested in them because I'm not that boisterous or aggressive.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I think if its a new couple trying to tell them on the side can be problematic, because I've heard similar thing from guys who's wife DIDN'T want to be there. Its one of those 'convince my wife to swing' type of things.

Your best bet is to try to work on her self confidence, which is hard being we are talking a basic personality trait, but quite satisfying to see it improve.

What you describe is exactly what I am afraid of and I'm afraid it has occured at times. She does want to be there and is often the one that wants to go out. The thing is there are people that she is interested in and wants to hook up with. She just needs them to make the first moves and pursue her for awhile but she often has an appearence and demeanor that makes it look like she is not interested so they do not pursue.

There have been times I have overcompensated and so we do appear as the couple with the gung ho husband and the indifferent wife. Not a good combination.

What I am hoping for is some pointers on what I can say that will get the message across that she is an active participant and is interested without sounding like I am being manipulative and trying to get people to "get my wife to swing" I guess the problem with that is that in a way I WOULD be being at least somewhat manipulative but in this case there is a big difference between appearing uninterested and actually being uninterested. I would only do it with people that she actually was interested in. hope that makes sense.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

We met a couple just like you at a party a couple of weeks ago. Actually, we only met the male half. When we tried to approach them together, his wife physically turned away. We figured she was not only not interested, but rude.

I got a chance to dance with the male half later, which I wasn't turning down (he was the hottest guy in the place) and I mentioned that his wife didn't seem interested. He explained that she is very shy. I never could get her introduced to my husband that night, but we've exchanged a few emails since. She didn't remember who we were and he wanted to show her a face picture of my husband to see if she might be interested. So far, no reply. She may not be interested or just not replied yet. Who knows.

I understand if someone is shy. I married a shy man. In the case of this couple, we knew she was not being coerced, because they were obviously involved with another couple and she was looking happy about it. For the OP, perhaps that's a good way of letting other potentials know your wife is willing. If they see you with others at a party or read a certification that makes it clear she's shy but happily in the lifestyle, that could help.

You can also help by trying to create situations that your wife is more comfortable with, whether that's a phone call, coffee date, or if she comes along with you to be introduced at a party.

For us, since Mr. Fuse is not comfortable with a woman who shows no sign of interest, probably nothing will work. I don't expect anything to happen with that couple we met, even if it turns out she thinks Mr. Fuse is attractive. He is improving in the flirting and courting area, but probably wouldn't be up for that much of a challenge.

Ummmm, was that you that we met at the party a couple weeks ago because it sounds like you described us to a "T"?

Seriously, what you described is exactly what we are dealing with, she will unknowingly do things like turn and walk away in the middle of an introduction or conversation. I don't mean to talk disparagingly about her but there are times she does come off rude and people have been offended. She often doesn't even know she does it.

Your point about being seen with friends is valid and well noted and we do have established friends that LOVE! her once they have gotten through the shell and know her and she is comfortable with them. Our profile does have some glowing certifications but that really doesn't help much in a face to face situation though. There is one problem with hanging out with friends at a club or party that I can sum up with one word....CLIQUE.

Your point is very valid but since she does laugh and flirt and frollick with a very select few, she often makes other people feel like it is THEM that she is not interested in. In otherwords if someone appears shy and uninterested all the time and with all people, then they don't take it personally. On the otherhand when people see her interacting freely with one person but then she appears to brush them off they take it more personally. If we just hang out with only established friends then we get accused of being cliquey (and we have). Maybe you just can't win sometimes.

Anyway, I guess I'm mostly just ranting and blowing off steam now. I remember JustaskJulie made a post recently that said if the couple has an outgoing and engaging fem half and a male half that just sits there quietly that she would be the "belle of ball." That just isn't the case when it is the other way around

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

You can also help by trying to create situations that your wife is more comfortable with, whether that's a phone call, coffee date, or if she comes along with you to be introduced at a party.

I do need to mention for some more background information that she is NOT uncomfortable in club/party or lifestyle situation. She is perfectly comfortable, she just has kind of a different social demeanor and just appears to be indifferent.

That is why I am wondering if it would help if I explained to some people that she is interested in them but often appears that she isn't at first. Is there a way that I can tell them that if they put in a little time and effort into getting to know her, that even though she appears indifferent now, that before the night is over she may be reaching down their pants or nibbling on their boobs?

Is there a way that I can explain that without it sounding like I am one of those guys that Chicup descibed that try to manipulate people into getting their wife to swing?

[The Fuse]

There were two couples at that party (ours, in Virginia) that did the same type of thing. In both cases my honey was the one to say, maybe they're just shy. In both cases he was right.

Personally, I found it encouraging when the lady in question appeared to be interested in others. To me that meant what her husband said was true, which meant that if we could just talk to her, there is a chance of at least being friendly. I think it is up to him (you) to point out Mr. Fuse and ask, "Would you like to say hello?" and then make the introduction.

The other couple were just completely new and scared. They actually approached us later to say hello, which was a nice surprise because earlier they'd moved away from us on the dance floor when we were (I was) getting ready to introduce ourselves.

I sympathize with your problem. It IS harder with a shy lady. I've seen a few couples with two shy halves and that is just nearly impossible for them.

Lots of people on this site have recommended the book "How to Work a Room" to help people who feel awkward mingling. I got it for Mr. Fuse and he read it recently. Just one more way to reinforce the right attitude.

[Sunswept]

Originally Posted by Newpants

That has definately occured in both ways you have described. Nice normal decent guys often take her appearance as uninterested and move on while some guys who are ultra assertive/aggressive are often the ones that keep digging along and are successfull even though I think they are assholes. As long as she is ok with it and they are of her choosing I often let her do as she wishes as she often does prefer more aggressive guys.

the problem is most of the women that are with aggressive guys think I'm some sort of pussy or not interested in them because I'm not that boisterous or aggressive.

Newpants, haven't a clue about what to do except have you talked with your wife about your observation that the real aggressive guys, some who do not appeal to you, are the ones that succeed? How much of a problem is this for you? I say that because if I was in your shoes, that would put a damper on things for me, I really have to like my partners choice... or whats the point. Also I would be worried about my partner accidently making a really bad choice

I have a vanilla, non-swinging friend that acts how you describe, she has Asperger syndrome which is a sort of milder form of Autism (which makes it hard for those with that apparently hardwired condition to connect with people on the simplest levels).

Maybe you and your wife can come up with some strategy to help overcome her shyness, maybe you two can discuss who of the less aggressive guys she IS attracted to on the fly, and then you two agree that you make the approach - and then she, forwarned, can try extra hard to be more outgoing/less-whatever. That way, you don't have to "warn" anyone, you two can support each other in getting to know the other couple. Make any sense???

Interesting and perplexing situation you present, good luck!

[Sunswept]

Newpants, now that I have thought about things a bit, how the heck did you two get together, considering I take it that you do not see yourself as the aggressive type???

This question comes up because I am wondering, does your wife "do" her indifference behavior only in a swinging context? Or is she indifferent in all life contexts? Also, is the pattern of her "indifference" behavior in the swinging context the same as it is in non-swinging contexts? In other words, does she "do" the same behavior in the same way in every context, OR is she indifferent 'one way' while swinging, and then is indifferent in a 'different way' when not swinging???

?????

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

I sympathize with your problem. It IS harder with a shy lady. I've seen a few couples with two shy halves and that is just nearly impossible for them.

Lots of people on this site have recommended the book "How to Work a Room" to help people who feel awkward mingling. I got it for Mr. Fuse and he read it recently. Just one more way to reinforce the right attitude.

I don't want to sound like I am Mr Charming or Mr Superoutgoing because I am not but I do at least make an effort and we do have our share of successes.

We experimented with period of time where I tried to be the typical lifestyle male that just sat in background and let her take the point hoping that if I sat back people would approach her first and she would have to take some initiative and be more proactive and we both ended up agreeing that approach was a dismal failure. so yes, I do question how well swinging would work if both people are shy and passive.

I will take your advice on the book because we could both use some upgrading to our social skills. Thanks for your advice and understanding.

[JustAskJulie]

Your story reminds me of another thread that I remember reading here not so long ago.... You may want to check it out as well for some other thoughts that might help you.

Can a woman be too hot?

As far as your question on how I would feel/react if the husband of a couple told me that... I've been told that before and it depends on how the other half acts. If she continues to act like she's not interested, then I'm not going to continue to go out of my way. If she (or he) responds well to my attempts to be friendly then I'll keep making attempts.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by Sunswept

Newpants, haven't a clue about what to do except have you talked with your wife about your observation that the real aggressive guys, some who do not appeal to you, are the ones that succeed? How much of a problem is this for you?

There have been times it has been an issue. I myself am a fairly quiet and reserved too. I do not consider myself shy or introverted but I typically do not like loud, agressive and boisterous people whether they be male or female so there have been times that the males that were making progress with her were ones I would rather not have around.

I suppose you could say that is a form of taking one for the team but some of them had HOT wives so I can't truly say it was taking one for the team in the traditional sense. However there have been a few times that their wives were so used to such aggressive and cocky men that they thought I was some kind of wuss and weren't interested in me.

That's usually not really a big problem for me though, that's mostly just me whining and ranting.

As far as how did my wife and I end up together that is a great question and the answer is it took a looooong time. When we first met she thought I was a dorky dweeb and had zero interest in me and I thought she was the stereotype of the beautiful but stuck up snooty b----. We had some mutual friends that gave us A LOT of encouragement to get together and it was over a period of a couple years that we got to know each other and warm up to each other. If it wasn't for our mutual friends that knew each of us and encouraged us we never would have gotten together otherwise. I don't say that to be mean and I am gratefull to them for what they did.

The problem is in a lifestyle setting you don't really have years to form an interest. You maybe have minutes and I know exactly how some of these people feel because I was there myself.

This is not something that is just limited to swinging. She herself says that this has been a lifelong issue and it does effect pretty much all avenues of her life. I don't think she has a disorder, I just think for whatever reason she did not develop a lot of basic social skills and also has some kind of mental block that keeps her from connecting with a lot of people on a personal level.

She does have a few close friends and like I said before the people that she does open up to and that know her do love her, she just has a lot of trouble connecting with new people or keeping connected to the ones she does know.

In fact if anything she is probably a little more assertive and engaging in the lifestyle because she has learned a few "tricks" to keep people's interests and she is a beautiful and sexy woman. However to use a boxing analogy, if she isn't able to deliver a knock out punch in the first round she doesn't have the social or personal skills to go the 15 or to win on points.

[good times]

I have had this situation come up before with a couple. In this case the guy told me that his wife was interested in me, and in fact, the wife of this couple has even told me she is interested. But being interested doesn't do a bit of good if interacting with her is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock.

The bottom line is, for me, and most people I know, you have to feel a spark of chemistry between yourself and someone your interested in. If that isn't there, nothing is going to happen, whether the person is interested or not. Fact is, I think the only thing that will work is for her to work at improving her social skill set.