First time blues

[TheCs]

Thanks in advance for reading this and providing your honest opinions/feedback. The situation has left me experiencing dating-like anxieties lately and it sucks. I've been with my husband for 6 years so it was a little weird experiencing those anxieties again!

We had our first experience about a month ago with a friend and another couple that were acquaintances/friends of friends. We heard of this couple being with another aquaintance of ours (single guy, we'll call him B) but seemed he was out of the picture now. What started with me and the other woman, watching that has always been a fantasy of my husbands, turned into her man joining and then my man joining, and the 5th watching.

The 5th left, and us couples went into our bedroom and continued the fun. We were all pretty tipsy, my husband was having a performance issue (which in itself is odd because we've never experienced that as a couple, even while wasted) but it didn't seem like a big deal as there was so much other action going on. It was a soft-swap with the couple. We finished, slept, woke up the next day, ate breakfast, watched a movie and hung out. Seemed like a great match and we were pretty excited.

Met up with them again the next weekend, had a great time at a dance party and went home together. However my husbands performance issues happened again, but this time he got upset and left the room, so I followed. We said we wouldn't play without the other. My husband was acting upset with me but he was just upset and what was 'going down'. He went to sleep in another room, I went to the couch and waited for the couple to come back upstairs so I could explain what happened. I did, they said not to worry, they understood, and they left. We talked with them about the situation the next day and seemed we had an open communication with them that we appreciated. We did not expect that would be the last hookup with them.

My hubbys bday come up and we have plans for a big group dinner, to which the couple come to and the former acquaintance of thiers, B, who is also a friend, albiet not close, of ours. We head to a strip club after dinner. Both us girls we're on our period so we were kind of unsure if any play would happen that night. So we get tipsy at the strip club and I ask her if they are still involved with B. She says no, they had some serious complications during that arrangement (pregnancy scare) and they actually hadn't been socializing with him much at all since then. We talk about precautions, etc, and again I appreciate her openness about it all. She gets drunk, kisses me once, but is practically dry humping B at the strip club. I get a little jealous as he's got the attention I wanted but I try to be OK with it realizing the scope of the lifestyle at work. B ends up going home with them. Women tells me the next day a little bit about thier play. Again, I appreciate her honestly, but was a lil peeved but didn't show it. I guess I thought we had a chance of getting into an exclusive couple-couple thing.

So she texts me a bit that week, we chat about whatever shallow topics, not discussing that situation at all. Talk about possibly getting together on Friday, her man tells my man he's def interested, and they mentioned taking it to the next level (bring condoms). Come Friday we're texting them, and they're not responding, or they're being vague. We're just trying to make our plans and they're mildly stringing us along, or not responding at all. We were unsure if they were able to get out that night as neither told us yes/no, but we end up at a dance party where they are with B and a lady friend of his. They're surprised to see us and we all hang out a lil but didn't bring up anything about the sexship. Hubby is annoyed, we leave the party, he's kinda being a jerk to me, we get in a drunken argument, have a crappy evening.

Now my husband and I were both annoyed mostly at the fact that they didn't just say yes we're going out tonight, going to hang with B, or yes we're going out tonight, not interested in hooking up later, whatever. Respond with something. We appreciated the openness and honestly that was there initially. They are a younger couple (mid-20's) and so is B and his lady friend.

We decided we're fine with them playing with others, we'll use protection, etc, but it was upsetting that we were being strung along though, and now I feel like they don't even want to openly discuss anything, we were treated like any other friends at the party. Now my feelings are hurt, hubby and I are tense about the situation, and I just don't know if we should continue exploring this way.

What was fun intially and could've gotten even more fun has been somewhat ruined by B's involvement and them not being open with us anymore, almost like we're being snubbed yet slightly strung along too.

At this point my feelings have become hurt. Maybe I shouldn't take it personally. I'm wondering if we should even continue this type of exploring. Both nights we expected to hook up with them and didn't ended up being crappy nights of confusion, talking about/trying to analyze the situation with eachother, and being frustrated. We both had so much fun we were very much looking forward to it again.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here, but it's nice to get this off my chest. Obviously there's not maybe ppl I can talk to about it.

[The Fuse]

First of all, I'm really sorry this happened to you. And don't think you're alone. It's often said that swinging can be like high school in this way -- people snub each other, string each other along, make plans and then flake out, don't respond when you ask if they want to make plans, say they want to get together again when they really don't... you get the picture. It has always been such a relief to us when we find people we like who will actually be straight with us instead of acting like that.

We personally try to be straightforward with people. Sometimes it means rejecting them, as nicely as possible. There are a lot of people in the lifestyle, and on this Board, who feel that because the activity is within the context of swinging, it's okay and normal to toss what I consider common courtesy out the window and think it's just the law of the jungle. We disagree with this viewpoint. We try to treat others the way we would like to be treated. If someone has said they want to get together again, and there is talk of doing it on a certain night, then if they decide to get with someone else instead or if they just aren't into it for whatever reason, it is much better to be told (gently) than to be strung along.

I wouldn't let what happened get you down. Actually, what I mean to say is that if you want to swing, you will have to be aware that a lot of people act this way, and take it into account. Sorry, but unfortunately this stuff is out there. You can't control what they do, but you can control how you react to it. Okay, so those people had no manners or consideration for you. Time to find someone else to swing with, and also not to consider plans made with some people solid until the last minute. We would be thrilled if we could rule those people out completely, but it would leave us with too small a pool of people to swing with.

The good news is that there are people out there who will treat you the way they themselves would like to be treated. Or, if you like club or party swinging, then you can just go to these events and see who is there. Never assume that because you've played with someone in the past that that means you'll play if you see them at a later event. There's a lot to be said for just seeing what's in front of you and playing with whomever strikes your fancy at the moment. No need to make plans that way. If your first choice couple or person is busy or not interested, move on and see who else is there who's appealing.

I hope this helps. This was your first experience, and I hope what happened doesn't sour you on swinging if you would like to keep exploring.

Oh... and about the performance issues, there are a lot of threads on this Board about that. It happens quite a lot. If you do a search you'll find plenty of advice.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by TheCs

...I guess I thought we had a chance of getting into an exclusive couple-couple thing.

I think this statement you made is at the core of the problem.

You had made a presumption that this couple was going to be exclusive with you. I didn't see any mention of you discussing this with them, and most swingers aren't looking for exclusivity. In fact, I'd add that unless you specifically see those words in a profile or hear a couple say - during your first e-mail communication or meeting - that is what they are looking for, don't ever think it's what swingers want. And even when it is what both couples are seeking in swinging, it doesn't mean that they will each decide they want to become exclusive with the couple they've met.

You are still at the "get to know you" stage of your swinging relationship. And considering that your husband had performance problems both times of your first two meets, I can see where this couple may be hesititant to attempt to play again. They may have decided to slow the pace with you for awhile, though still keep on friendly terms because they hope for a future attempt at play.

You have said throughout your post that drinking (too much, maybe?) was involved at all your meetings. That could have played a role in your husband's inability to keep an erection. Try cutting back on the alcohol consumption and you will probably have a better outcome when swinging.

I didn't get the feeling that this couple had made a date with you for that Friday, but rather, they said they would be open to meeting you again and MAYBE the upcoming Friday MAY work. Since they didn't get back with you, I'd say that you had your answer...no date.

Feeling jealous about your swinger friends getting flirty and sexual with others is something that can arise, but you will need to get a grip on it. Jealousy does not make happy swingers. This couple doesn't belong to you, nor do you belong to them. You are each swinging to enjoy sex with other people. You can't expect to have control over what others do with other people.

Regarding the openness you refer to, it seems like you feel someone is being open when they share with you what they do sexually with other swingers. This isn't a good habit to get into. If we met a couple who'd tell us about their sexual adventures with others, we'd think twice about playing with them because if we did our sex with them may turn into their next "story" told to some other swingers they meet.

From what you've written, I don't get the feeling that this couple is stringing you along. They may be interested in keeping your friendship, and maybe considering play in the future.

I agree with what you said, swinging can feel like dating, and in knowing that, as swingers, we have to be especially vigilant to keep from feeling possessive of our new friends in the lifestyle, or becoming jealous when our swinger friends are out having fun and sex with other swingers.

LM

[The Fuse]

Wow, I didn't catch some of the things in the original post that LikeMinds321 caught. Her advice is right on. Don't make the mistake of looking for someone to be exclusive with you. Almost no swingers want an exclusive relationship. Also, she is right about the alcohol. If you limit your drinking to one or two drinks in a night, you will probably have a better time and your husband will be less likely to have performance problems.

[lizandtom]

TheC's , Likeminds hit it on the head. While it is normally the worst idea in society when a guy 'thinks with his Johnson,' which leads to cheating, it is one gauge in the lifestyle of whether a hook up is working or not.

You guys may feel hurt, but what about the other woman? Two times she soft'd with your husband, and he didn't get hard. What does that tell her? IMHO she must feel that she doesn't sexually do it for him. Therefore, THIS IS NOT A MATCH.

What you will find, going forward, is that it's tough to find 4 compatible people sexually. While you guys had a nice rapport with them, the 'friends first' approach rarely works, too lengthy to go into here.

As Fuse said, luckily you have dance parties you go to. There are plenty of potential playmates there; just be fun, flirtatious, and if anything becomes of it, then great. If not then you go home with your 'best lay' anyway.

Get over them and move on (although be cordial when you see them; no need for drama).

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by TheCs

We were all pretty tipsy, my husband was having a performance issue (which in itself is odd because we've never experienced that as a couple, even while wasted) but it didn't seem like a big deal as there was so much other action going on.

Met up with them again the next weekend, had a great time at a dance party and went home together. However my husbands performance issues happened again, but this time he got upset and left the room, so I followed. We said we wouldn't play without the other. My husband was acting upset with me but he was just upset and what was 'going down'.

Equipment that normally works (even when tipsy) is totally different than dropping that same tipsy equipment into a swap situation. Any number of reasons why...too much to drink, anxiety (over what is going on/about to happen/it actually happening/etc). Having it happen once is easy to shrug off, but then the second time he was probably already nervous because he didn't rise to the occasion the first time, now he's putting more pressure on himself to perform, which usually isn't conducive to performance happening and when its not happening, frustration levels rise...its a vicious cycle. So if the other guy was getting hard just fine and your hubby isn't, then of course your hubby isn't going to take that well after 2 experiences where that has happened. Most guys really can't perform on demand and even if they are turned on by what is happening, its not a guarantee that thier junk is going to work.

My sweetie also doesn't normaly have problems between us...but plop him into a playroom where there is alot of activity going on around and he has trouble maintaining between putting a condom on and getting it into someone. But he knows that once he gets going, things will work just fine. You can't judge his performance with you (a partner he is used to and comfortable with) against how he is performing in a swap situation.

lizandtom also hit on a very good point...she may think that she isn't doing it for your hubby based on his inability to rise to the occasion. Most people can write the first time off to nerves/drinking/etc...but on repeat encounters if it happens, maybe she felt like she wasn't doing it for him.

Women tells me the next day a little bit about thier play. Again, I appreciate her honestly, but was a lil peeved but didn't show it. I guess I thought we had a chance of getting into an exclusive couple-couple thing.

Ok, but so far in this story it appears you and your hubby have made alot of assumptions...this being one of them. As the others have mentioned...most people in the lifestyle are not looking for "exclusive" arrangements...they have that at home, they are looking for variety. I mean, you know what happens when you assume things...it also holds true for expectations...you expect you are going to a party to play then nothing pans out...now what was a perfectly fun evening out with friends for your hubby's bday is now "ruined". Why? Because you didn't just come right out and ask them if they wanted to go home with you. And then you get miffed when they went home with someone else.

So she texts me a bit that week, we chat about whatever shallow topics, not discussing that situation at all.

And what situation would that have been? If you are talking about the fact they went home with B...that was already discussed and really none of your business. It may have been mere courtesy (or bragging) that she even told you about playing with B after leaving the strip club. They are not accountable to you, nor are you to them.

Talk about possibly getting together on Friday, her man tells my man he's def interested, and they mentioned taking it to the next level (bring condoms). Come Friday we're texting them, and they're not responding, or they're being vague. We're just trying to make our plans and they're mildly stringing us along, or not responding at all. We were unsure if they were able to get out that night as neither told us yes/no, but we end up at a dance party where they are with B and a lady friend of his. They're surprised to see us and we all hang out a lil but didn't bring up anything about the sexship. Hubby is annoyed, we leave the party, he's kinda being a jerk to me, we get in a drunken argument, have a crappy evening.

Again refer to my comment above about assuming and expecting. What potentialy was a fun night out was not because assumptions and expectations were made/had. You had your answer in the fact that they were being vague about wanting to get together. It really is like dating...if a guy you were interested in was non-commital about wanting to get together on a particular night, wouldn't you get the hint? But you can't leave it all on them either...in the first situation at the strip club...you seemed to sit back and wait for them to take the lead and when they didn't and their interest turned elsewhere, you got upset. Same here. They were being evasive in setting up plans. You could have said "well were going to XYZ party tonight, hope to see you there" and that leaves the ball in their court. What they do with it is their business.

Now my husband and I were both annoyed mostly at the fact that they didn't just say yes we're going out tonight, going to hang with B, or yes we're going out tonight, not interested in hooking up later, whatever. Respond with something.

Not to be rude...but again, they aren't accountable to you. Would it have been nice if they said "We already have other plans" or something, sure. But as The Fuse said...sometimes common courtesy goes out the window. But then again most people don't want a conflict or to hurt your feelings, so they tend to be wishy-washy.

We decided we're fine with them playing with others, we'll use protection, etc, but it was upsetting that we were being strung along though, and now I feel like they don't even want to openly discuss anything, we were treated like any other friends at the party. Now my feelings are hurt, hubby and I are tense about the situation, and I just don't know if we should continue exploring this way.

And exactly how is it that you expected to be treated? They were friendly and by your account actually socialized with you...so where is the problem? Again it seems to lie in your expectations of the interactions.

What was fun intially and could've gotten even more fun has been somewhat ruined by B's involvement and them not being open with us anymore, almost like we're being snubbed yet slightly strung along too.

Again, your perception...which is fine. However, what does B have to do with anything? This couple is at liberty to play with whom ever they want when they want to. How is still being friendly stringing you along and snubbing you at the same time?

At this point my feelings have become hurt. Maybe I shouldn't take it personally. I'm wondering if we should even continue this type of exploring. Both nights we expected to hook up with them and didn't ended up being crappy nights of confusion, talking about/trying to analyze the situation with eachother, and being frustrated. We both had so much fun we were very much looking forward to it again.

It has been said a few times on the board that you have to have a kind of thick skin to swing. Emotions that you are used to feeling (or not feeling) may arise. The "rules" of what we normally assume in a relationship do not quite apply to most lifestyle activities (such as exclusivity). There are many other fish in the proverbial sea...why hang your hopes on this one couple? Sure you felt a connection and they were your first other playpartners...but if they aren't looking for what you are, then you can't force it. Look around for others that might more closely fit what you want. Some people are looking for just another couple to be exclusive with...most aren't.

[exploringRM]

I agree with everyone's advice and don't have tons to add. We've been in a few situations where jealousy (from others) has reared it's head and we put a stop right then and there. My wife always says we are here to have fun, a way to escape into a bit of fantasy. If issues arise then it's no longer fun. Now our experience is a little different as we are a not looking for the same as relationship as you, an exclusive couple. We already have that and really don't want everything that comes with that sort of relationship. I know it works for some but not for us.

[TheCs]

Thanks everybody for the feedback. It's everything I needed to hear. I wish I would've done my research before getting in a situation, however it happened early on and for that I am grateful.

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by TheCs

Thanks everybody for the feedback. It's everything I needed to hear. I wish I would've done my research before getting in a situation, however it happened early on and for that I am grateful.

I just wanted to add on that your first experience was in some ways not all that bad. Somewhere middle of the roadish. For my wife and I, the first few experiences were good, but not stellar. It wasn't until we'd been swinging about six months before we had a swing session that hit the "WOW!" factor big time. I guess what I'm saying here is don't judge all of swinging, and what you might think/feel of it, by this early encounter.

Also, my wife and I would like to find another couple where everything clicks well and everyone is very happy. Exclusive? I don't think we'd ever ask for that, but we wouldn't turn it down for the right couple. As to whether this will ever happen or not? I don't know. We don't _look_ for it to happen, but if it does we won't walk away from it. Instead, we take each experience as it is. If we play with another single male or couple again, then great. If not, and we happen into them again at a party or club, we're not going to layer expectations on them.

I think perhaps the other couple didn't fully understand your expectations. One of the worst things someone can do to you is not meet your expectations of them. Creates all sorts of discomfort. As is often said, go into a swinging evening out with the expectation of having fun; whether you end up swinging that evening or not. If you do, great. If you don't, great also. Just have fun.

I think you've learned a few things with this encounter, which is great. Take those lessons forward.

[Alura]

I don't have much to add, but would like to suggest again that y'all address the drinking. The other couple needs to do that as well. It was our experience that folks who wanted to play didn't drink much; those who really didn't want to swing, drank too much. It's a dead giveaway.

I have one other concern... Do y'all drive home after "getting tipsy"? If so, you may be courting more disaster than y'all realize.

Alura

[TheCs]

No I totally don't think it was a bad experience at all. Actually, it was such a great experience that I was sad it was ending so quickly!

It was a first for all who were involved (couple w/ couple). None of us went into this situation thinking "This will be our first swing experience." It was more like, oh hey look the girls are making out, let's jump in, and quickly went from there. All of the thinking, assuming, expecting, researching.. came after the fact. We feel much more enlightened now than we did at that time and have a better understanding of what we're interested in. (No, not exclusivity only. We were just thrown off guard).

As for drinking, my husband and I are both dj's and spend most of our free time in bars, so yes, we drink often. We don't get wasted all the time, but yea, it happens.

As for driving, we have friends drive us when needed, and end up repaying the favor often too.

I think we'll be checking out our first club experience this weekend. Going in for fun, hopefully meet some people, hear good music, and whatever happens, happens.