Dom/sub and problems

[Scoobers]

OK I don't post very often but I have no where else to turn this time and communication with my wife isn't being very effective. So some quick history, We have been swinging a little over 3 years. We have very recently decided to play separately. Last weekend was the first time separately for both of us and it went very well. Now for my problem. There is a couple we have known for about a year and a half that have become good friends of ours and we all played at one point but because of compatibility issues the female and I no longer play. We have remained friends and my wife still plays on occasion with the other woman. Since we have decided to give the separate thing a go the male half has asked to play with my wife. I am completely ok with them playing but today when my wife and him were chatting he brought up Dom/sub play. Now this is something we have never done and are inexperienced. He never said anything to me about it when asking to play with my wife. My wife seemed to be very turned on by the idea of dom/sub and I am willing to experiment with her but when I mentioned this she seemed uninterested in doing it with me. My wife has feelings for this couple which I know about and am ok with but I'm not ok with her doing Dom/sub stuff with him. When I mentioned my uncomfortable feelings to her she got angry with me. Now I am a firm believer that somethings are going to far and this is one of them. My wife is now mad because I don't think its a good idea which has never been her response to anything concerning the lifestyle. I am concerned her feelings for this couple have gone way to far. I am not comfortable having another man treat my wife in such a manner regardless if its for play or not. She would be the sub in there play as she has told me this is what she wants. I am lost as to what to do now. I don't want to upset my wife because we are both very experimental and sexually open but this just doesn't hit me right. In all honesty this has struck a nerve with him and me. What do to now???

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- The rule is if one person is uncomfortable, that ends it. Period. Moreover, this guy, upon knowing you were uncomfortable with the idea, should also have simply ended it. Also, a discussion of sub/dom play should have been done with both of you. Rightly or wrongly, he thought if it was okay with her that it would be enough. That in and of itself was inappropriate.

Sometimes a partner is uncomfortable and later changes their mind. That's fine. Yet, the mindset of the moment always prevails.

With separate play the level of communication, understanding and mutual support actually needs to increase, not decrease. And it also looks like you and your wife dove into separate play without considering some variables, such as what you both find sexually acceptable for the other to do. Regardless of what she wants, you are uncomfortable and that settles it and she needs to accept it.

[BiloxiCouple]

With feelings for the other couple coming into play, like a relationship, things are greatly magnified and can become a real problem for everyone.

[good times]

I think you should really go with your instincts on this one.

That said, I would like to comment on one aspect of this that you mentioned, just as food for thought. That is that your wife isn't interested in trying this with you, but is interested in trying it with a playmate. This makes total sense to me, as my wife has tried this with a playmate and enjoyed it, but we both agree it would never work for us to do it. For us at least, their is too much of a long standing equal relationship for us to ever do the D/S thing. In fact when she was telling me what they did, and how it turned her on, the first thing I said was that it would never work for us. The reason for that is if I was trying to dominate her, or she me, we both agreed that the mood would be ruined because we would be laughing to hard. The fact is, it would be so out of the norm for us that we both agree we would find it to funny to take seriously.

The bottom line is that this points out one of the joys of swinging for us. We can try things with others that just wouldn't work for us.

[Edison Carter]

'good times' makes a lot of sense.

[LikeMinds321]

Hi Scoobers~

I find your post very interesting because I had personal experience with Dom/sub play on one occasion with a couple I played with. My husband and the other lady found they weren't play compatible, still the four of us remained good friends and I would play solo with them when the opportunity arose.

I don't think it is at all unusual for your wife to want to try this, nor do I feel your male friend was wrong to ask your wife about Dom/sub play without first speaking to you. I think your wife should speak for herself and think for herself and discuss how she feels with you; I also think she handled herself as expected...she talked to you about what type of play was discussed and how much it turned her on thinking about it.

You being uncomfortable at this point isn't unusual either. You don't know anything about this territory.

From my experience, Dom/sub was role playing for me, and it was great fun and a real turn on, yet, I could never do it with my husband. As with good times and his wife, my husband and I would laugh just thinking about us trying it together.

I felt someone new and different than my husband was who I wanted to try it with. There is a mystery there that is needed for it to work well, I think. It was not demeaning to me. We had decided on a safe word I could say, if I ever felt I didn't want to proceed. I recommend Dom/sub play only with someone you can trust with your wife. Since you have know this couple for a good while, and are friends, this should help you with your decision.

Would your concern that your wife is developing feelings for this couple even be a concern to you if the Dom/sub play hadn't been brought up? I ask because I wonder if this is a separate issue that you have been worried about, before the D/s play was brought up?

LM

[fun4Ds]

This is a classic example of why we never played seperate.

I couldnt imagine playing with anyone bumping me out of the loop, like they have all done to you.

I am affirmative enough that play is over and all would know why.

You want to play dom over Mrsfun... Your coming through ME, Period !


Fun4ds

[PB&J]

If you are worried about the degree of attachment there, that's one thing. Don't assume, however, that the Dom/sub role play is too much of an attachment all on it's own.

Like others here, I have done some role play, but not with my husband. Over the summer I did some with a playmate, alone. It would never have worked, either with him there, or with him as the Dom, because it's just not his thing. It was someone that my husband knew and liked and trusted. I also don't see why the other man should have mentioned it to you first- isn't she the one who would be playing with him? You say it was mentioned while chatting- is it possible it was a spur-of-the moment suggestion?

If you're not comfortable with the idea, by all means discuss it with them, and you are a part of the decision process, just as she is a part of yours. But don't assume that this is disrespect for you.

[Scoobers]

Well I finally made some head way with my wife last night. I noticed a lot of you say you have tried some kind of role playing and it was a good experience. I am not afraid of her being attached to him and after thinking about it you guys are right its two separate emotions. After we got passed the heat of the moment she agreed to not do D/S play with anyone right now. I tend to look at both the good and bad of every situation. He mentioned wanting to get to know her boundaries and then push them. That scares the hell out of me. I don't want it to end badly and if he ever pushed to hard I can tell you right now it would end really badly. I address this with my wife and that was the turning point. I think she realized I am scared for her safety more than anything. I'm not saying he would ever hurt my wife but I don't have that kind of trust with him. As far as a few comments about playing separate we have talked about the boundaries which is why this has not happened.

"This is a classic example of why we never played seperate.

I couldnt imagine playing with anyone bumping me out of the loop, like they have all done to you.

I am affirmative enough that play is over and all would know why.

You want to play dom over Mrsfun... Your coming through ME, Period"


I was not bumped out of the loop by any means. It was brought up before it ever happened and the issue is more or less with my wife not seeing my side. I am not my wife's keeper, I let her make most of her own decisions. Its very rare that we have bad feelings about anything but this one time she felt very passionately about something she wanted to experience and I was uncomfortable. I completely understand and respect your decision to not play separately, its not for everyone.

[sexcupid]

As someone who has engaged with D/s play with a few partners...a few questions popped to mind.

For you and your wife: what kind of D/s play was mentioned? What exactly comes to mind for you when you think of D/s play?

For the other guy: how much experience does he have with D/s? What are his expectations for play?

I ask these because D/s isn't some guy (or girl) mercilessly beating the crap out of the submissive partner. One night during a group discussion with friends...we kind of came to the conclusion that the sub has most of the power...why? Because there should be a safe word in place that calls a halt to all play. A safe word that isn't "no" "stop" or something of the like because that may very well be part of the dialog happening during the scene/roleplay. Most Doms take the welfare of the sub seriously.

I totally understand that this is pushing the envelope for you and I understand the concern for your wife's safety. However, if these people are good friends...why the lack of trust? If the guy has little to no experience with D/s play, I can understand it. There is trust enough that you left your wife play separately with him.

[DigginIt]

Wow, a lot of good responses here. Some really good questions were also brought up. I've seen some stuff on TV, HBO had a RS episode dedicated to D/s and it just seemed silly to me. I'm not trying to attack it, I'm sure it can be a lot of fun but to me it just seems corny so I doubt I would ever be into it.

I've had the crap kicked out of me in Ranger and SEER school in the Army and someone spanking me on the ass and telling me to lick their shoe, no matter how hard or serious they were, just seems comical. Very sorry if I'm stepping on someones toes.

Getting to the point, you are good friends with them. Let them invite you and your wife over to watch a show with him and his wife. It might ease your fears and tensions and give your wife a better understanding of what they will be doing. She may not find it as exciting as she thought or it might even be better.

Just an idea.

[little firefly]

I would like to just interject a little bit on this. I've been in the BDSM lifestyle for many years. I'm a natural submissive so the LS just kind of fit me. My SO (NDN) is a Dom in that LS which is how we met. Someone who is truly familiar with the workings of the BDSM world knows that a submissive has to have absolute 100% trust in their partner to allow them to dominate over them. It does not, however, give the Dom the right to treat the sub in any manner that he (or she) chooses. As Sexcupid stated, D/s isn't some guy (or girl) mercilessly beating the crap out of the submissive partner. The submissive truly is the one in charge and can call a stop at ANY given time to play. If your wife does ever decide to have that kind of play, make sure that the guy she plays with knows her boundaries in crystal clear detail. Make sure she has a safe word to use if things get to be too much. Be certain that whoever she plays will be respectful of your wifes boundaries and is not just some sadist who gets his rocks off by inflicting pain without concern for his partners well being. Do research on D/s play. While the BDSM LS is fun, it can also be dangerous if you go in not being prepared. People have, and do get hurt (sometimes seriously) because they and their play partner are not on the same page. In D/s play, a submissive gives someone else power over their body. It's essential to make sure it's with someone who will not abuse that power and will respect boundaries that are set up.....Just my 2 cents

[ALilOEverything]

Originally Posted by little firefly

Someone who is truly familiar with the workings of the BDSM world knows that a submissive has to have absolute 100% trust in their partner to allow them to dominate over them. It does not, however, give the Dom the right to treat the sub in any manner that he (or she) chooses.

Being that I was part of this lifestyle in the past I really have to echo this. Boundaries are to be respected. Not pushed.

I'm glad you had a good talk about this with your wife and that you're more on the same page. I think the Dom/sub issue, playing seperate issue, and the emotional connection issue may all be seperate issues but when they all come together I can only imagine the amount of discussion you two will be having. Hopefully this will bring a deeper level of understanding of each other and you'll feel even stronger and more connected in the end.

[Scoobers]

"People have, and do get hurt (sometimes seriously) because they and their play partner are not on the same page."

"Boundaries are to be respected. Not pushed."
That is exactly what I told my wife.

Those things right there make me very concerned. I know I said they are good friends but there are varying degrees of trust. Would I trust this couple to pay me back $20 sure... Would I trust him not to push my wife to far, no.... I know my wife and it would only take one wrong move to upset her greatly. I am ok with them having NSA sex but the trust and relationship in D/s thing seems a lot more serious. When I say they are friends I mean we hang out play cards, do things out side the lifestyle. There have been other red flags coming up in the last 24 hours with this couple as well. Today my wife told him I was not ok and his reply was that him and his wife knew I wouldn't be ok with it. Now to me its like if you knew I wouldn't be ok then why did you even ask. That doesn't seem right or trustworthy to me. Another thing is when we all used to play as a group his wife always told him to take it easy with my wife and now that I am no longer in the picture its ok for rough play? Seems a little odd to me. I don't know maybe I'm over reacting but things just seem out of place all of the sudden. I know when we used to play in a group his wife would get so tense I could barely push her legs apart and now they are all wild and crazy??? This is why I dont trust them to pursue the D/s lifestyle with my wife. More discussion is greatly appreciated and I want to thank all of you who have responded. Its nice to be able to talk to people who are not directly involved.

[Ed & Bunny]

It seemed like things had been worked out, so I was going to leave this alone, but now????

Ok here is my biggest concern. Scoobers, you expressed discomfort in the idea with your wife. This should have been discussed and if your concerns could not be erased, the whole idea should have been dropped, end of story. This is one of the biggest rules of swinging.

My second concern is her lack of interest in even trying the D/s stuff with you. Yes many others have a good point that it can be difficult to find the right mindset with their partners of many years, but to not even want to try?????

Now as for all your concerns about the other couple, I think you are upset and reading too much into it. for instance their comment about knowing you would not be into it. My guess is that you have given off signals showing that you are not into some of what might be involved in any BDSM play and their statement reflected your interest in it rather than your concerns of your wife playing. The wife reminding her husband to play soft probably has more to do with him having a habit of playing rough with her and making sure he doesnt forget and go too far. I need to do the same with my wife because she is so used to being aggressive with biting and pinching my nipples that it would be easy for her go beyond what another guy is comfortable with.

My suggestions. You two need to take a bit too cool off and then you need to communicate. I have a feeling this is an issue you cant just drop. From my own personal experience I suspect her conversations with the other husband have awoken some strong desires in her. This is something you two will need to explore if this is the case. At this point using the other couple to help with this might not be a good idea, but in your case I can suggest many alternatives. Fetlife.com has a very large membership ofMichigan residents who can help you with advise. You might also want to look at going to a club southwest of detriot called th A2 Reformatory. This club has a dungeon and holds bi-weekly parties for the BDSM community with the other two weeks being for swingers. (it also goes by another name for the swinger parties) This might be a good place for you two as it is some what public so there is much less of a likelihood of someone going to far with your wife. One word of warning for you though, what your wife finds acceptable in normal settings may be very different than what she is willing to allow in a BDSM scene. You will have to make sure you keep quiet and in your seat and trust her to us her safe word if things go to far for her. Even at that point you have to remember that BDSM is not perfect and as long as the Dom stops when the safeword is used and they havnt done anything they agreed not to do, this is all cool in the BDSM world and not a reason to be pissed at the Dom.

I suggest you explore this together for several reasons;

A. These may be desires that will never go away for her.

B. Doing it in a club like A2 will allow you to get comfortable with your concerns

C. You may find yourself interested in becoming involved and learning more, which could lead to...

D. You both may find a way to incorporate BDSM into your own sexlife.

I hope this helped, and Good Luck