Should my SO be seen as a single since I don't play?

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by little firefly

Well, luckily The Estate doesn't nitpik when it comes to the way that couples choose to be in the lifestyle. Their main concern is that everyone respect each others rules and boundaries. They find the fact that NDN plays but I don't to be non consequential.

If you actually read what I wrote, in one post I said exactly that. IF the club owners don't care.... why should you care? If you really are happy with the arrangement, why not just carry on and ignore the email.

Originally Posted by little firefly

If he doesn't find a couple to hook up with during the evening then he hooks up with me....

So what *is* the problem? What do you want to change?

Originally Posted by little firefly

Whats the big deal?

I certainly don't see any big deal, since I don't have a horse in your race. Though not everyone has the same opinion, other posters seem to be offering well considered advice, not anxiety, so no big deal, there. The club owners seem fine with this, so no big deal there, either.

So where *is* the big deal?

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

The thing about definitions is there are so many. This is right here off the Swingersboard under FAQ

What is soft-swinging?
Soft-swing is basically a variety of swinging that encompasses everything except actually having intercourse with other partners. Many swingers choose to save the actual act of intercourse for their own partners but will play with others for the "fore play". They opt for this for a variety of reasons including less risk of STD's, or just saving that special thing for their partner. Some swingers also prefer to just watch others have sex or to be watched, this also falls into the category of soft-swinging.



The key word in that statement is "disinterested" which clearly isn't the case with firefly. She is very much interested in watching and gets an enjoyment out of it. You are applying your definition of swinging which requires her to have sex with another to qualify and that is where we are at a disagreement.

I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it.

I think the Swingers Board dictionary needs a lot of work. You had to chose the definition of "soft swing" to prove your point because the various definitions of "swinger," "hard swing, "soft swing," and other words including the word swing or swinger are not in accord and don't necessarily support the definition you picked. (Who mentioned soft swing, anyway?)

I chose my definition from: Bergstrand, Curtis; Blevins Williams, Jennifer (2000-10-10). "Today's Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers". Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality 3. Today's Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers. EJHS 2000. Retrieved 2010-01-24, which I believe to be a more authoritative source.

Again, this is not "my" definition and I resist any attempt to imply that I, in any way, "require" Firefly have sex with others. The original question was whether or not a person is considered a "single" if they come with a non-participating partner. (Why did nobody contrast the absolutes... MUST have sex vs. WON'T have sex, how did THAT get a pass?) It was NOT about who was required to have sex and the injection of that notion was to confuse the original question.

[little firefly]

If you actually read what I wrote, in one post I said exactly that. IF the club owners don't care.... why should you care? If you really are happy with the arrangement, why not just carry on and ignore the email.

I only cared because I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing by having our profile set as a "couple" instead of him as a "single"....I've decided to keep the profile set as a couple but making sure that it states emphatically with no chance of misunderstanding that I don't play.

So where *is* the big deal?

I wasn't making it a big deal but you seemed to be. Telling me we're a bait and switch couple, circumventing rules, being a ticket for a "single" man to get in the door, being in the wrong for being at a swingers club and giving the implicit indication that I'm there to swap (merely because I'm present), etc. etc.........Anyway, I think this dead horse has been beaten quite enough

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by little firefly

I only cared because I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing by having our profile set as a "couple" instead of him as a "single"....I've decided to keep the profile set as a couple but making sure that it states emphatically with no chance of misunderstanding that I don't play.

On a personal note/ response - it really annoys me (as half of a couple that plays - despite the fact that I'm bi) the number of couples who show up at clubs for only HER to play. It annoys me that these couples expect my SO to stand on the side and watch, that they assume that because I'm bi that that's ok with us.

That said, if you are in the room while he's playing, whether watching or playing with just him, then you are still and should be listed as a couple. If he plays alone (all or some of the time) he should be listed as a single and it should be made clear that he has a female half that is aware, gives permission and occasionally is there to watch and/or play with JUST him. It's much easier to make this info clear in an ad, much more difficult and the situation becomes much more cloudy in a club environment. I think it would be great if we could all wear signs on our foreheads that make our intentions clear at a club, but we can't, so until such a time as everyone shows up at the club with the exact same set of expectations and intentions... we just have to do our best to cut to the chase quickly and make it clear as early as possible as to not waste anyone's time.

Your personal situation (having read most of your posts here) rubs me a bit wrong... I guess the difference to me between you guys and a situation where the roles are reversed is that you clearly state you are not and will not be a swinger. In most cases where the roles are reversed that statement is not made, in fact the guys typically would identify as swingers they just aren't interested (or perhaps aren't allowed) to play beyond their partner, so while they may just be soft-swingers they are still swingers (and identify as such). Stating up front that you are not a swinger and are not interested in such, will put those you are with/near/ surrounded by at the clubs in an awkward position and feeling very awkward, not knowing or understanding where you fit in the scheme of things. I think this is where the bulk of the animosity you may be feeling off other swingers is coming from (both in person at the club, via email and even here). While on one hand, as I said in my earlier post you wouldn't be getting it if the roles were reversed on the other hand I'm not so sure that you wouldn't still to some degree. What puts you at an odd angle is that you want to be present and be part of it but don't want to claim it.

[PB&J]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

What puts you at an odd angle is that you want to be present and be part of it but don't want to claim it.

Agree with Julie here, and I think that in the end it may be this that most limits your SO's chances of hooking up, not whether he's listed as a single male or half of a couple. Honestly, we would find the idea of the wife-OR husband- just sitting and watching the three of us going at it would be enough to make us move on, and let's face it, there is NEVER a shortage of single males out there.

[cplnuswing]

When it comes to these discussions that evolve around trying to sort all people into a few neat little boxes, there will never be agreement. All people are different (and thankfully so), and there will never be unanimous agreement on the exact number of boxes that are needed, what they should be labeled, and who gets to go in what box. But, it really doesn't matter. If someone has issue that you don't perfectly fit in one of their boxes, that's their problem, not your's. No sense worrying about it or analyzing it - it is what it is.

As long as you are up front and honest about it, then you are holding up your end of the bargain. How they choose react to that is again their problem, not your's. Swinging rules are funny things - they cut both ways. What may be an absolute deal killer for some may make you just what someone else is looking for if they have similar rules. What should come as no surprise though is the more unique your situation/rules, the more you set yourself apart from the "norm" and thereby reduce the pool of potential playmates. I'm not at all implying anyone should try to be something they are not just to keep the potential playmate list high. That's being dishonest with both yourself and others, and will only lead sooner or later to dissatisfaction and unsatisfying experiences.

To throw in on answering the question posed in the thread title, my opinion is your SO should not be seen as a single as generally defined. He's not a single because a single male does not have any limitations other than what he defines for himself, and that is not the case here. Nor are you are a typical full or soft swap swinging couple.

You are what you are, you're up front about it, and if someone wants to get heartburn over how your profile is catagorized on a website or that you didn't end up fitting their preconceived notion of what you would be when they first spotted you at a club, then that's their problem and let them deal with it.

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

I think the Swingers Board dictionary needs a lot of work. You had to chose the definition of "soft swing" to prove your point because the various definitions of "swinger," "hard swing, "soft swing," and other words including the word swing or swinger are not in accord and don't necessarily support the definition you picked. (Who mentioned soft swing, anyway?)

The majority of your argument seems to stem around your definition of swinging proper as an oust towards firefly but soft swinging is a very accepted form of swinging as part of the lifestyle even if you don't like it.

You made a strong point that implied that Firefly is just a disinterested party who lets her husband use her to get past the 'no single men' rules at the estate. (paraphrased)

Firefly doesn't play but enjoys the voyeuristic aspect, she enjoys it when her husband plays, plays with him afterwards.

Your point has been clearly made, I think mine has too. I highly doubt we will agree so we should just agree to disagree. I think we have a lot of common things we did agree on with the exception of this one point.

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

Your point has been clearly made, I think mine has too. I highly doubt we will agree so we should just agree to disagree. I think we have a lot of common things we did agree on with the exception of this one point.

I think so, too. Your comment about the woman that won't kiss, but will give a world class blow job actually made me laugh out loud. Meeting such a couple was our first WTF moment in swinging.....

One point that we've come across.... and I'd like to see this clarified, is, "what defines a swinger?" Birthright? Certain personal participation or no requirement thereof? Mere association with a certain reference group? What?

I really gets odd when you consider acquaintances and decide that "X" is a swinger because "Y," since that sets them apart from non-swingers....

It gets even stranger when you consider the question, "Do swinger venues willingly admit non-swingers?"

I'd never really considered it all that thoroughly. I have no interest in neatly stacking folks into tidy boxes, but we are hanging out here in the SWINGERSboard.... what *is* that????

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

the number of couples who show up at clubs for only HER to play.

If we pay postage, could you send us some.....

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

On a personal note/ response - it really annoys me (as half of a couple that plays - despite the fact that I'm bi) the number of couples who show up at clubs for only HER to play. It annoys me that these couples expect my SO to stand on the side and watch, that they assume that because I'm bi that that's ok with us.

Maybe we should give out stickers to attendees (I'm kidding but here you go):

• Red Sticker - Leave me alone - I bite!
• Green - I'm easy, let's go and bring your friends along.
• Yellow - Team players not to be confused with taking one for the team.
• Purple - Girl friendly only unless otherwise notified.
• Orange - Single, standards checked at the door, just ask.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

Maybe we should give out stickers to attendees (I'm kidding but here you go):

• Red Sticker - Leave me alone - I bite!
• Green - I'm easy, let's go and bring your friends along.
• Yellow - Team players not to be confused with taking one for the team.
• Purple - Girl friendly only unless otherwise notified.
• Orange - Single, standards checked at the door, just ask.

I'd be all for this I

[two4youinswva]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

Maybe we should give out stickers to attendees (I'm kidding but here you go):

• Red Sticker - Leave me alone - I bite!
• Green - I'm easy, let's go and bring your friends along.
• Yellow - Team players not to be confused with taking one for the team.
• Purple - Girl friendly only unless otherwise notified.
• Orange - Single, standards checked at the door, just ask.

That would be the one time that when someone says to me "What are ya? Yella?", that I could say "Yes, I am".

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

Maybe we should give out stickers to attendees (I'm kidding but here you go):

• Red Sticker - Leave me alone - I bite!
• Green - I'm easy, let's go and bring your friends along.
• Yellow - Team players not to be confused with taking one for the team.
• Purple - Girl friendly only unless otherwise notified.
• Orange - Single, standards checked at the door, just ask.

Oh, no! Now you're trying to put people in little boxes! Bad! Bad!

[Malachista]

I have the feeling that the Email came from the male part of a couple who was interrested in you and now tries to pressure you to play

[ncmd_couple]

Originally Posted by Malachista

I have the feeling that the Email came from the male part of a couple who was interrested in you and now tries to pressure you to play

Good insight... and very, very possible!

S