Should my SO be seen as a single since I don't play?

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by little firefly

It's made 100% crystal clear a couple of times in our profile (including the headline) that I don't play in any way whatsoever and whenever we meet and talk to new couples at the club it's stated up front that he plays but I don't.

Your profile is clearly written. Then, if in person, you both have stated that up front, I would ignore the email. Some people chose odd battles to fight.

Originally Posted by little firefly

I don't ever give ANY kind of indication that I want to play.

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers. Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

Originally Posted by little firefly

I guess it's a good thing that there are couples who do enjoy playing with single guys...Maybe few and far between, but they're out there.

If you think they are hard to find? Try finding a single woman....

[twoforone100]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

Your profile is clearly written. Then, if in person, you both have stated that up front, I would ignore the email. Some people chose odd battles to fight.



Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers. Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"



If you think they are hard to find? Try finding a single woman....

Are single males allowed at said club? If they are not, then you would seem like a ticket. If they allow single males.. then.. I don't see a problem. If you are up front about as you have always said. Now on-line, I would tend to agree he is more like a single male rather than a couple. Does your profile have pics of you up?

[little firefly]

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers. Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

I know of several couples who go to the club where they are there for the wife to play with other women and have no interest in being with other guys....What if that was the case with us? Would it still be a problem?....I know nothing of The Fortress but we've been going to The Estate for a couple of years now, in fact we work there as hosts a couple of times a month. As I said before, even if I was a swinger it doesn't mean I would be required to play with every couple who shows an interest in me. I would only play if I had an interest in them as well....It just happens I don't have an interest in anyone except on a friendship level....And yes, if you assume that someone will play with you just because they are a swinger, then it is a hangup. Just because a place is full of swingers doesn't mean that everyone is there to play with just anyone. They all have personal preferences about who they want to have sex with.

[little firefly]

Originally Posted by twoforone100

Are single males allowed at said club? If they are not, then you would seem like a ticket. If they allow single males.. then.. I don't see a problem. If you are up front about as you have always said. Now on-line, I would tend to agree he is more like a single male rather than a couple. Does your profile have pics of you up?

Single men are allowed in limited numbers on Friday nights and on Saturdays they only allow a select few single men into the club (Ones that they know aren't going to be running around fondling and groping
every woman in site). Our profile has 6 pics up...5 of him and one of the two of us together.

[twoforone100]

Originally Posted by little firefly

Single men are allowed in limited numbers on Friday nights and on Saturdays they only allow a select few single men into the club (Ones that they know aren't going to be running around fondling and groping
every woman in site). Our profile has 6 pics up...5 of him and one of the two of us together.

Then we don't really see a problem with it... We would agree the email was out of line. Don't let it get you down.. All of the other advice along those lines we agree with as well.

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by little firefly

And yes, if you assume that someone will play with you just because they are a swinger, then it is a hangup. Just because a place is full of swingers doesn't mean that everyone is there to play with just anyone. They all have personal preferences about who they want to have sex with.

You don't mind putting words in another person's mouth, do you?

Yeah, I know of folks at the Estate that only play with each other, ever. That's called vanilla. If everybody felt that way, all swing clubs could be called The Holiday Inn.

If you folks are into Ds, you really need to talk the SO into taking you to the Fortress. It is a venue that would probably never incur the problems that you have found in a swinging venue and you both might find what you are looking for.

[little firefly]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

You don't mind putting words in another person's mouth, do you?

Yeah, I know of folks at the Estate that only play with each other, ever. That's called vanilla. If everybody felt that way, all swing clubs could be called The Holiday Inn.

If you folks are into Ds, you really need to talk the SO into taking you to the Fortress. It is a venue that would probably never incur the problems that you have found in a swinging venue and you both might find what you are looking for.

The only problem I'm having is with that email I got and this thread seems to have gotten way off that subject. I happen to love The Estate. We've made some good friends there who have been nothing but great to me. I have a good time hanging out with them shooting pool having drinks and some good laughs. I think that The Estate has a place for everyone, soft swingers, full swap couples, girl on girl players AND those who only play with their SO's but in a sexual environment where they can indulge in voyeuristic and exhibitionist ways (both of which I enjoy). I don't think that just because I only play with NDN should mean that I have no business there.

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by little firefly

The only problem I'm having is with that email I got and this thread seems to have gotten way off that subject. I happen to love The Estate. We've made some good friends there who have been nothing but great to me. I have a good time hanging out with them shooting pool having drinks and some good laughs. I think that The Estate has a place for everyone, soft swingers, full swap couples, girl on girl players AND those who only play with their SO's but in a sexual environment where they can indulge in voyeuristic and exhibitionist ways (both of which I enjoy). I don't think that just because I only play with NDN should mean that I have no business there.

Either you missed it or I failed to make my point. I'll try one final time...

You asked for an opinion ("Do I let him be seen as single or do I keep things the way they are with us being a couple but only him being open to play?") and I gave you mine.

I think any person would define a single man as one that attends functions without a play partner.... I think that honestly describes you. He is a single, since you don't play. The two of you should be permitted to attend and do whatever you want, while you are there, but to be honest, he is a single(and you are a single).

The club you attend has rules governing single men and you are circumventing those rules. If you admitted he was a single male player, it would limit the days he could attend and the parts of the club that he is permitted to enter.

Thus, IMHO, whether man or woman, any person coupled with one or one hundred other non-players is a single. If I wished to attend and found a disinterested female that would escort me through the door and then, just leave, I would accomplish the same result..... I'm pretty sure that is not what management intended.

Anyway, the real point is: if management is OK with this, screw the person who emailed you, just carry on......

[little firefly]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

I think any person would define a single man as one that attends functions without a play partner.... I think that honestly describes you. He is a single, since you don't play. The two of you should be permitted to attend and do whatever you want, while you are there, but to be honest, he is a single(and you are a single).

The club you attend has rules governing single men and you are circumventing those rules. If you admitted he was a single male player, it would limit the days he could attend and the parts of the club that he is permitted to enter.

Thus, IMHO, whether man or woman, any person coupled with one or one hundred other non-players is a single. If I wished to attend and found a disinterested female that would escort me through the door and then, just leave, I would accomplish the same result..... I'm pretty sure that is not what management intended

How are we circumventing the rules? Yes, he plays with others as a single (couples looking for a man to have MFM's) but he's half of a couple! (and everyone knows that!) I go there with him, as a couple and we spend time with our friends, as a couple. He goes anywhere in the club that he wishes because he HAS a play partner....ME! I don't go there just to be his ticket in the door. I'm there to be with and to PLAY with him. We go to the play area that is off limits to men without a female escort because he HAS a female escort...Again ME!! And while in that play area we play with each other....Doesn't seem to me that we're circumventing anything!

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by little firefly

I go there with him, as a couple

OK... that's your story, and you are sticking with it. Why ask advice? You've already made up your mind. If you are looking for affirmation, you just aren't going to find it here, with me.

If everybody attending that club had your position and your attitude...... even YOU (and your SO) would have absolutely no interest in attending. Think about it.

That's it.... have a nice day.....

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

Your very presence there gives that implicit indication. If I go to a swingers venue, I assume I'm surrounded by swingers.

Is that my hangup? Speaking of what-ifs, would this misunderstanding have happened at "The Fortress" instead of "The Estate?"

I agree with you on your assumption but in context with all of your other posts you are assuming that everyone that are swingers, play the same way. There are swingers that like to just have sex in front of others. They don't even soft swap, they simply prefer to be voyeuristic, yet they are not considered any less swingers than those of us that like to jump in and pretzel up.

Back to you Firefly.

My personal opinion is that if you truly enjoy watching and you are getting something out of it, some kind of sexual fulfillment, when you are allowing your husband to participate then you should continue to bill yourselves as a couple with rules. "The playful husband and the voyeuristic wife."

Just because you prefer to simply watch doesn't mean that you should be attacked by those that don't share your ideas of what you two want out of the lifestyle.

We all see rules that we think are absurd. It floors me when someone won't kiss me but they will give me the meanest blowjob of my life <scratches head> .

Whatever. Some will, some won't, so what.

[little firefly]

My personal opinion is that if you truly enjoy watching and you are getting something out of it, some kind of sexual fulfillment, when you are allowing your husband to participate then you should continue to bill yourselves as a couple with rules.

I think that's what I'm going to do. I feel that the general consensus here has been divided but I think it would be more deceiving to put him as a single male than to keep us as a couple explaining in crystal detail what our situation is. It's not like they can't pass by our profile and move onto the next.

"The playful husband and the voyeuristic wife."

I like that! I think that might be the new profile headline


Thanks for the insight!

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

I agree with you on your assumption but in context with all of your other posts you are assuming that everyone that are swingers, play the same way.

That is not my assumption. My wife and I only play as a couple... so, obviously, we don't play like everybody else, either.

Again, speaking to the rules of this particular club, single women are welcome without restriction. Single men are NOT. A person(M or F) that attends with a disinterested partner is, by any reasonable definition, effectively a single... "single men limit" rules are *designed* to limit the number of men without active partners. It may be sexist, no, it IS sexist, but as long as there aren't reasonably equal numbers of men and women seeking to attend swing venues, expect the "unfairness" to continue.

Originally Posted by DigginIt

There are swingers that like to just have sex in front of others. They don't even soft swap, they simply prefer to be voyeuristic, yet they are not considered any less swingers than those of us that like to jump in and pretzel up.

Published literature defines swinging as a "non-monogamous sexual activity, treated much like any other social activity, that can be experienced as a couple." So, no pretzeling? Then, your voyeurs are just that, voyeurs....

[little firefly]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

Again, speaking to the rules of this particular club, single women are welcome without restriction. Single men are NOT. A person(M or F) that attends with a disinterested partner is, by any reasonable definition, effectively a single... "single men limit" rules are *designed* to limit the number of men without active partners. It may be sexist, no, it IS sexist, but as long as there aren't reasonably equal numbers of men and women seeking to attend swing venues, expect the "unfairness" to continue.

Well, luckily The Estate doesn't nitpik when it comes to the way that couples choose to be in the lifestyle. Their main concern is that everyone respect each others rules and boundaries. They find the fact that NDN plays but I don't to be non consequential. If he doesn't find a couple to hook up with during the evening then he hooks up with me....Whats the big deal?

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

Published literature defines swinging as a "non-monogamous sexual activity, treated much like any other social activity, that can be experienced as a couple." So, no pretzeling? Then, your voyeurs are just that, voyeurs....

The thing about definitions is there are so many. This is right here off the Swingersboard under FAQ

What is soft-swinging?
Soft-swing is basically a variety of swinging that encompasses everything except actually having intercourse with other partners. Many swingers choose to save the actual act of intercourse for their own partners but will play with others for the "fore play". They opt for this for a variety of reasons including less risk of STD's, or just saving that special thing for their partner. Some swingers also prefer to just watch others have sex or to be watched, this also falls into the category of soft-swinging.

Originally Posted by AskMeOk

Again, speaking to the rules of this particular club, single women are welcome without restriction. Single men are NOT. A person(M or F) that attends with a disinterested partner is, by any reasonable definition, effectively a single...

The key word in that statement is "disinterested" which clearly isn't the case with firefly. She is very much interested in watching and gets an enjoyment out of it. You are applying your definition of swinging which requires her to have sex with another to qualify and that is where we are at a disagreement.

I respect your opinion, just don't agree with it.