Girlfriend messed up...did full swap

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by Famous04

The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.
I am also human, and what this event made me realize is I need to do a little more growing, and I believe she needs to do just as much growing, if not more. I can't grow with a shadow hanging over me at all times.
Its as if I said at the beginning any advice received on a swingers forum has to be taken lightly, because only I can make decisions for myself in a situation like this, I did what I felt was best for both of us.
I felt I couldn't easily forgive her, so I'm attempting to move on.

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.
Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"
"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

Yes, you are very very hurt and you have good reason to feel hurt.

Perhaps when the wave recedes a bit you could ask yourself whether, in the totality of your relationship, which is serious enough that you bought a house together, this incident is enough to wipe out what you have together?

At the very least, it has taught you about some of the things you don't like about her, and perhaps about some things you might not like about yourself.

She did a very very bad thing by not respecting the boundaries you had set previously. But is it really something you see breaking you up forever? Is she not still the same person you've been with up till now? What if it would never happen again? What do you think she would do, if she had it to do over again? Do you think this was really just a bad, bad mistake, or does it show a part of her character you simply can't live with?

About the "control" thing, I'd suggest you not use other peoples' stuff as a way to justify your own. If you think someone is being controlling, maybe they are. Or maybe it's just a personal boundary or comfort thing and the other couple is dealing with it the best way they know how. If someone else's boundaries/control issues don't work for you, then don't play with them. You may disagree with how they do things, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do something or not do it in your own relationship.

I wish you the best of luck.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Famous04

The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.
I am also human, and what this event made me realize is I need to do a little more growing, and I believe she needs to do just as much growing, if not more. I can't grow with a shadow hanging over me at all times.
Its as if I said at the beginning any advice received on a swingers forum has to be taken lightly, because only I can make decisions for myself in a situation like this, I did what I felt was best for both of us.
I felt I couldn't easily forgive her, so I'm attempting to move on.

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.
Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"
"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

This is how love works. It is only when we really love someone that they can really hurt us. It happens. It happens to every couple who really love each other at some point. Not necessarily in this way, but it does happen. We hurt each other. When that happens, when we break trust, the hurt party has to decide how much they really love this person, and do they love them enough to forgive them and take the chance at being hurt again - because that is what you do when you love someone - you take a chance.

I hope that when she leaves you might open your eyes and see this and maybe see that you do love her enough to take a chance. But, if you do not see that then it is good she left - good for both of you that she moved on. Good that you both now have a chance to find someone who really loves you and who you really love enough to allow to hurt you. Best of all, it's good that it happened early before you had any real commitments to each other.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by Famous04

The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.
I am also human, and what this event made me realize is I need to do a little more growing, and I believe she needs to do just as much growing, if not more. I can't grow with a shadow hanging over me at all times.
Its as if I said at the beginning any advice received on a swingers forum has to be taken lightly, because only I can make decisions for myself in a situation like this, I did what I felt was best for both of us.
I felt I couldn't easily forgive her, so I'm attempting to move on.

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.
Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"
"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

I know exactly how you feel. I had an almost identical situation along with the same excuses. I spent the last couple of months lower than a snakes belly.

As a swinger, How would you react to your partner cheating?

The ugly feelings do pass. It takes a lot of talk, trying to understand and thinking about things. I can't even count the sleepless nights. And Julie is right in asking do you want to be right or be happy.

My best advice is give it 90 days and then see how you feel. Don't make hasty decisions based on a highly emotional scenario. It's not a lot of time out of your life to be absolutely sure.

Good luck.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by Famous04

The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.
I am also human, and what this event made me realize is I need to do a little more growing, and I believe she needs to do just as much growing, if not more. I can't grow with a shadow hanging over me at all times.
Its as if I said at the beginning any advice received on a swingers forum has to be taken lightly, because only I can make decisions for myself in a situation like this, I did what I felt was best for both of us.
I felt I couldn't easily forgive her, so I'm attempting to move on.

I've been watching this thread and couldn't keep it in anymore.

I can relate to how you feel...our first swing experience was just awful. We made some noob mistakes (ie not having more than one condom a piece), the post I made about it is still floating around on the board some where. I couldn't breathe, I hurt so bad I couldn't bear the thought of him even looking at me, let alone touching me...I cried for days on end. It was quite honestly one of the worst times for us.

As Julie said, only when you are really in deep with someone do they really have an ability to hurt you. Does it make someone feel better to realize that they've let someone in to that degree when they are hurting? Um, hell no it doesn't.

Hopefully cooler heads will eventually prevail. It does take time for the hurt to lessen and to be able to think clearly again. Honestly I have no doubt that if I had been the one to f up the first time out, he would have gone off the deep end instead of insisting that sometimes shiz just happens.

Good luck.

[Dave_kat]

Originally Posted by Famous04

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.
Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"
"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

And here is the logical fallacy on your part..

These aren't controlling behaviors, these are what the couple has decided to look for, and decided together as a couple. They are being up-front about what they are looking for, they are working together to bring what they both define as pleasure.

In other words, they are showing self-control by limiting their interaction with others to live within the boundaries they set between themselves.

You, on the other hand, have chosen to set boundaries and dive right in, without fully knowing what you were getting into.

Originally Posted by Famous04

Well the one thing we have always specified is that we are only a soft swap couple, no full swap, at least not until we are both 100% sure we are ready to get to that step.
So Im having some fun with a girl and look over and my girlfriend is fucking the hell out of some guy, obviously I was pissed.

You both decided that you didn't want to go full swap, but yet you are both interacting with the other at arms distance or further away from each other. You never tell us whether or not you even expressed your own rules to the couple you were soft swapping with (granted this would be the first soft swap we've heard of where you go off and mess around with the other couple to begin with, fully naked and/or more than a little kissing/fondling).

But this happens, and while noone has said it was ok for her to do this, it went to a whole different level between you both

[Dave_kat]

Sorry, we hit the wrong button and it posted only part of the response before we were done.

Originally Posted by Famous04

Up to this point I felt as if I was betrayed and I had been hurt, but now I think I have realized that it's not my loss, My life will still continue with or without her in it, If she decides she wants me in her life then she must rebuild that trust. It's not my responsibility to help her rebuild it, if she truly feels bad for what she did, then she will come up with a way, no matter what it takes.

This is a very controlling behavior that says everything must be on your terms or not at all. Granted you did back down and listened to people on here, and instead

Originally Posted by Famous04

And on a final note, I have decided to agree with everyone on here in one aspect, making her try to win me back does no good for anyone.

So on friday she's moving to her moms.

Where have you both done any talking other than to beat her up over a mistake? Where is your compassion? Where is the understanding and support that comes from two people in love trying to work things out and rebalance their relationship?

If she went out and bought a new car for you as a gift, but got taken for a couple of extra thousand at the dealership, it sounds to us like you would complain about the extra thousand and not be thankful for the thought and effort put into buying you such a gift.

Instead of trying to work things out, you have basically said we're done over the mistake of having too much fun and getting carried away, instead of talking it out, reaffirming your love for each other, and perhaps stepping away from things for a bit to say - "this caused us problems, let's not do it anymore until we can reaffirm our own desire to do so and to live within the boundaries we've set."

Basically it sounds to us like you are so pissed and hurt that you literally moved into a different room, acted like roommates who were pissed at each other, and didn't talk, and you ignored whether or not she was hurting from this herself. And then decided she was moving out. Who decided this really? You, her, or both of you?

Because here is what gets us with this whole thing. You were both playing with others in sight of each other, in an environment where people come to do so with others and to enjoy sex with others. You didn't stick to playing with each other, you went and played with others, which invited more than what you were looking for. And yet we also don't hear anything about the other guy knowing your rules about being "soft swap" and you being pissed at him, so the blame is getting put 100% on your girlfriend for not stopping him. Did the guy know, and did he do some convincing on his own that assisted this situation? Did he know the rules and went too far, or did he do so unknowingly and she allowed it to continue?

You set yourselves up into what would normally be a full swap situation, and expected everyone to play by the rules. And when that didn't happen, you decided what your response would be and enforced your own decision.

Was her moving out mutually decided, or was this your decision?
How much support have you given her for her emotional distress over her mistake?
Did you only talk to us, and not really talk and listen to her?
Was there any kind of discussion about where to go or what to do between both of you?
Did you make her life miserable afterwards by ignoring her or giving her ugly looks anytime you were together, preventing her from even being able to talk things out?

You could take the attitude that this was a one-time mistake, that you won't put yourselves back into this kind of situation again, but work on your relationship, and probably everyone here would applaud that. It would be right to know that you're working through your issues but removing the temptation until you reestablish your relationship and boundaries.

But now you've broken up over it. Just think if you were married, would you try to claim adultery as the grounds for divorce?

[Famous04]

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

And here is the logical fallacy on your part..

These aren't controlling behaviors, these are what the couple has decided to look for, and decided together as a couple. They are being up-front about what they are looking for, they are working together to bring what they both define as pleasure.

In other words, they are showing self-control by limiting their interaction with others to live within the boundaries they set between themselves.

You, on the other hand, have chosen to set boundaries and dive right in, without fully knowing what you were getting into.



You both decided that you didn't want to go full swap, but yet you are both interacting with the other at arms distance or further away from each other. You never tell us whether or not you even expressed your own rules to the couple you were soft swapping with (granted this would be the first soft swap we've heard of where you go off and mess around with the other couple to begin with, fully naked and/or more than a little kissing/fondling).

But this happens, and while noone has said it was ok for her to do this, it went to a whole different level between you both

How is it you know the other couples decided this together?

How is it you know we just set boundaries and dove right in?

With all due respect your making all of you assumptions based off of just my writing in a forum? I had originally written this piece for comfort, maybe people who could relate, instead I felt I was attacked from some and judged from others, albeit a few people did help.
As I believe I had already stated this situation was something I would have to figure out for myself, because the only way for anyone reading these forums to have all the facts is to have been either myself, or my now ex.
I admit I let my anger of my situation get the best of me and I should not have let a forum get to me as it did, but with that being said, To anyone who posted in a positive, helping, comforting manner, I thank you very much.

But to all the people who judged, made bias decisions, or virtually stuck their finger in my face, Please the next time someone on these forums asks for help, Try and be helpful, even if you think they are wrong, try and remember you can not possibly have all the facts, so instead of judging maybe try offering helpful ways to deal with stress, or things you might do to calm down when your upset, otherwise maybe it would be best just to say nothing at all.

[rpu3]

But to all the people who judged, made bias decisions, or virtually stuck their finger in my face, Please the next time someone on these forums asks for help, Try and be helpful, even if you think they are wrong, try and remember you can not possibly have all the facts, so instead of judging maybe try offering helpful ways to deal with stress, or things you might do to calm down when your upset, otherwise maybe it would be best just to say nothing at all.

It's a public forum. Everyone was polite in their responses, given we don't have the entire story, and we certainly don't have your girlfriend's side of the story (or is it ex-girlfriend now?) If you post on a public forum, you accept the risk that someone might say something you don't want to hear. I recommend knocking off the finger-wagging you've got going on (which is a controlling behavior of sorts) towards the rather polite and helpful Board members and try turning the mirror towards yourself. You might just learn something.

Good luck, and good luck to your moving-out girlfriend. Sounds like she needs it as much as anyone.

[maggoo]

It seems most feel sorry for u
I don't and don.t blame the alcohol

There is an old saying about playing with matches eventually one could lite and burn your fingers
Put your sooking ego away as the risk is always there
Yes she broke a rule But considering the situation most probably one of you would eventually
Give her a cuddle and forget it
May be scrap that rule

[HotMoCpl]

You mentioned something about her not being in control....stop! Check out yourself right now.

[Dave_kat]

Originally Posted by Famous04

How is it you know the other couples decided this together?

How is it you know we just set boundaries and dove right in?

With all due respect your making all of you assumptions based off of just my writing in a forum? I had originally written this piece for comfort, maybe people who could relate, instead I felt I was attacked from some and judged from others, albeit a few people did help.

You're absolutely right, we don't know the answers to those questions. What any of us can do when asked for advice is to give that advice based off of our own experience in the lifestyle, and for us that is 15 active years in the lifestyle together.

And our experience is this:

1) Very few new couples go to on-premis clubs, for the very reason that the situation can be overwhelming. Nervousness, fear, being unsure about what they like in the lifestlye. They tend to wait until they have a bit more experience with the lifestyle to do so.

2) Most couples will set boundaries with each other, and you can be sure the experienced couples have game-played (sat there and what-iffed) pretty much anything they can think of and how they will respond. If an experienced couple tells you something like "it's all about me tonight" or "I only play with other women", you are being told not only what their rules are, but that they are sticking to those rules.

We have to base any response we give to our experiences, especially without all of the facts. We take what we are given and try to imagine the possibilities that could lead to this situation, or what we have experienced ourselves.

Now we haven't seen any post from a person telling you that your feelings were not, we have all said you were right to be upset about it. What we did do was try to influence your thinking about 1) what might have gone wrong and 2) make reccomendations to dealing with it.

Your responses back have been what we have shaken our fingers at. You took the sympathy, and only the advice about making an ultimatum, and pretty much argued with everyone about any other advise. We've (and not just us) have tried discussing your logic, and tried to get you to think about other things than your hurt feelings.

The funny thing is, there is another thread going on where basically the same thing has happened. The same basic advice was given by the same people, and those two are working together to resolve their issues and to move on together.

She broke rules. I felt betrayed. Am I Wrong?

Julie has even sent you there in her advice a while ago.

Look in the mirror. You complain about our advice when you asked for it, you argue our experiences, and you sit there and tell us how wrong we are. Yet we come back to try to educate you about things because to us, a relationship is an awesome thing, two people in love is an awesome thing, and we will go out of our ways to try to help others in need with freely given heartfelt advise. Not to mention, you are getting responses from people with quite a bit of experience.

What we have seen from your responses is what makes us make our assumptions about what is going on, and the direction our advice goes. But then we seem to be beating a dead horse here.

[NorthLaCpl]

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

You set yourselves up into what would normally be a full swap situation, and expected everyone to play by the rules. And when that didn't happen, you decided what your response would be and enforced your own decision.

Hummmm, this one comment got me to thinking about a few things here. And as a guy who's experienced a situation similar to your own, I've been very interested in what the veterans here on the board would have to say about your situation. And it seems to me that by and large, you've received some solid advice. But then again I do freely admit that when it comes to the lifestyle, if a little knowledge is dangerous, well hell, I'm not even mildly hazardous. But that said, one thing has occurred to me and it's this: Maybe you should back off and look at it from a novices point of view? Back up to where you both were when you first started discussing this. What were your fantasies? What turned you on about it? What were you looking to get out of it?

I just can't help but get the feeling that you're a bit like myself. A somewhat old fashioned guy who grew up with the belief that "good girls don't". When you met the right gal, she was put on a pedestal and kept pure. And sure, you may play with the wild ones, you surely didn't take em home to mama. Still yet, time passes, you mature, and you start thinking about your woman as a more sexual creature. You like the idea of seeing her as purely sexual, of her enjoying herself and enjoying sex but just for the sake of sex, no emotions involved. So maybe you explore starting down this road.

But here's the kicker. Maybe you don't research this thing first. Because hell, how complicated can it be? It seems pretty straight forward in your fantasies! You've fantasied about it, you've both talked about it, and it's played out in your mind a hundred times, so naturally you feel confident enough to map out a path forward. Now the boundaries are set and you really believe you've got all the bases covered. But in reality, you don't even know the questions to ask. But you soon learn the same thing we learned, that walking into this lifestyle cold is a bit like filing a flight plan for an asteroid. That any and everything can happen, and will.

And see, here's what we missed. First of all, unlike in our fantasies, in the real world, the other three people get a vote, and not only can they vote, they will and unless things are done correctly, they just might vote on the fly! Secondly, maybe like me you find out that your woman is one hell of a sexual creature. That while it was pretty hot to think about in a fantasy, in real life it was a bit of a kick to the gonads. In my fantasies, I thought I'd have to hold her hand and maybe even persuade her, talk her though this, but no, that wasn't the case at all. In reality, she left me setting on my thumb while she went forth and did exactly what we'd talked about.

So to me, it really comes to this: I realized it's a bit futile to get pissed off at the fox after willingly throwing her in the hen house. That is of course an option, but the other option is to maybe believe her when she says that she loves you, believe her when she says it's you she wants to be with. And maybe realize you've both learned something about each other and use it as a tool to grow together.

Of course another option is to jet her and move on to someone new. But what happens if you start wanting to revisit these old urges? Do you start down this old path with a new woman? Now wouldn't that be a mucked up deal?

Just something to think about.

[Trellken]

I lot of responses in this thread actually pissed me off. A number of people here are making OP out to be an asshole or controlling or otherwise "wrong" because he didn't want his girlfriend to have sex with someone else. I've seen many of these same people respond in other threads about how important it is to communicate and to create rules and to be able to trust each other.

The guy has every right to be angry, hurt and upset that his girlfriend broke what (from what he's said) was a very clear and often-discussed rule of their relationship. Whether or not it happened in a club, she cheated on him and had an affair. That's not ok.

[kurious_pair]

Make an assessment of the relationship. What does she offer to the relationship? You obviously were interested in her for certain qualities. Are those qualities still present? Are you giving her the opportunity to offer them? Is it possible to experience some degree of happiness with this woman that you would consider fulfilling? If so, give your self time to work on the anger. Also remember, you both have to look out for each other. If one is under the influence, the other should take charge of the situation according to what was agreed to prior. Thats my opinion. Hope it helps...

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

Ok. We're going to be blunt here - If you want to keep your relationship, get rid of the ultimatum mindset. She is not the only one who can fix this, as it takes at least two to have a working relationship.

That being said, something is definitely wrong with this picture. Your rules obviously allow you to do anything with someone else other than actual intercourse.. ok.. got it. So grinding is ok? What happens if you're naked and grinding and something slips into just the right position? Does just one accidental stroke count as breaking the rules?

Look at yourselves and ask each other why you do this... What does it bring to the table that keeps you going back for more? Unless you're already unhappy, it should bring excitement and enjoyment watching your SO enjoy the PHYSICAL pleasure of being with another.

Right now it sounds to us like you're wanting your cake and trying to eat it too. She didn't go off and have an affair with someone, she went off and got carried away by a physical moment of pleasure. It's entirely possible that the shoes could be reversed on this one and you having crossed that line. Think about that. Consider if you had just a little bit more to drink and a hot lady was in your lap grinding and wiggled just right. That can happen just as easily. Would you be disgusted with yourself, keep it to yourself, or would you face the music willingly and admit it, especially if your SO didn't see?

You have entered into a world where physical acts happen between people, and it is entirely possible to get carried away. Walk a couple of miles in her shoes before you make an ultimatum about her making this up to you. And for that matter, it is YOUR responsiblity to help her make up for it - by establishing reasonable guidelines to do so, and to be open to her doing so.

We are all human (I haven't met an alien yet) and we ALL make mistakes. Allowing yourself to realize just that one point will take you a long way towards rebuilding your relationship and your trust. But trust is a 2 way street, just as respect is. You have to give it to get it.

FIVE STARS!!! DAV-KAT..well said...
once a couple decides to go into swinging . all these situations have to be discussed BEFORE a couple even steps into a room with someone where this might happen..
My wife (who is sitting right here watching) have talked and discussed nearly ALL possible scenarios which might come up.. and we have agreed on ALL and how we would handle them...
Oh! Swinging is Physical and does not have too much to do with EMOTIONAL STABILITY... and if she does get a little dick .. and enjoyed!! thats ALL that would matter!!