OMG im a bundle of nerves! *things i didnt think about*

[HisnHersnYours]

Ive mentioned in our introduction that we were seeing a girl we met at SLS. We had one date, just lunch, to check each other out and make sure this was someone we did in fact want to play with. *Hubby and i have a deal, at least for our first time, that we would meet the girl in a no pressure atmosphere then talk about it privately if we want to proceed* We had 2 nights comped in Reno 2 weeks ago so we thought we would meet her the first day for lunch and if things go well meet her again the next. she had to work so we only got to meet one day and the meeting went awesome, definate sparks. we had plans to go back on the 26th with a group of friends to go to some strip clubs and we thought *hey lets ask her if she would like to see us, we could steal away for a couple hours or so* we dont want to rush things and we're trying to think from a single females perspective how scary a situation this can be so we wanted to take our time and make her feel comfortable. she said she would like to see us and would let us know. well time passed and our friends ended up flaking on the wknd but we already reserved a room. today we got a text from her saying she would love to drive up there and meet us if we were still interested. Hubby called her to let her know we wanted to and he said he would leave the details to us girls. well here is where it got interesting. when i wrote her the details and how our friends couldnt go and it would just be the three of us she wrote back. "im up for anything as long as i have a place to sleep" i just assumed we werent at that place yet of sleepovers. i mean its cool but now im crazy nervous and started to over think things (which i always do) when youre discussing "sharing" with your SO you of course think of all the fun stuff but i didnt take into consideration a sleepover. was that naive of me? i mean what is the protocol for this? do we all sleep in the same bed together? lol, i feel like an idiot asking but im just wondering. any advice or tips about this and about "the first time" would be greatly appreciated.

[funcpl4life]

I would say if you are uncomfortable with something, don't do it.

That said, we've never had a problem sharing hotel space. We've done it with vanilla friends and swingers. Get a room with 2 beds. It's not as much fun for 3 way play as a king bed, but gives more sleeping options. We've never had anyone sleep in our bedroom at home overnight.

Tell your hubby how you feel. "I don't care where she sleeps, in our bed or elsewhere, but you sleep with me: got it?" (Or whatever makes you feel comfy. I prefer direct and blunt from my lovely wife.)

I would also make sure that the hotel isn't booked up and be prepared to plonk down for an extra room and breakfast. If you just don't want her in your room overnight, have a gracious way out.

She drove up to see you and if she got a room and breakfast and to meet some nice people out of it (even if nothing happened) she probably will go away thinking well of you. If you all wind up screwing each others' brains out repeatedly and sleeping in a puppy pile, so much the better.

I have found that swinging gives me an opportunity to live by the golden rule and the great rede at the same time. 8)

Mr FC4L

PS Sharing a hotel room between 3 lovely pentacostal holiness ladies and one dude (me) at a work conference was interesting. Lots of waiting for the bathroom. Lots of long pajama bottoms. Sleeping in bras and wearing PJ bottoms with a nightgown made me giggle.

[N&G]

There are no fixed rules in this case so do whatever is comfortable with everyone. If there are two beds in the room the extra female will probably sleep separately (maybe that's what she prefers) but if it's a king size bed there is plenty of roon for three. When sharing a room with others you will find that different sleep habits become more of a concern. There are lots of people that you may enjoy sexually but you can't sleep in the same room with them. Things like snoring, leaving the lights or TV on, or just getting up at 5AM when you like to sleep until 8 can make others very incompatible. There is an unwritten rule with couples that you sleep with your own partner but once again you are free to do whatever is agreeable to everyone.

[des1re06]

Talk to her one-on-one instead of email about the sleeping arrangements.

Some single ladies expect you to foot the entire bill (food and room) and some don't. I'd ask about that up front. It wouldn't be a problem for us, and you should be prepared to cover all her expenses if you invite her for an overnight trip.

Go with what makes you feel comfortable, as said already.

Good luck and have fun!

Mrs. D

[VANudistcpl]

I would say if you are uncomfortable with something, don't do it.

Even though we are still rookies in this world, this is probably the best advice we have heard. On our first visit to a club we heard that phrase as much as no means no.

I would agree that you should talk to her face to face about all the arrangements not just where to sleep.

Mr. Nudist

[JustAskJulie]

I really don't understand the single women who expect everything to be paid for by a couple (anymore than I understand single women who expect everything to be paid for by a guy). IMO, that's like saying she expects to be paid for sex.

That said, I do understand where she's ready to go and you might not be. You need to ask yourself if you are really ready to play? Most single females in the lifestyle are there for the sex, not to develop longterm relationships or friendships, they can get that elsewhere. If she's making the effort to drive to meet you, then she's obviously interested. Were I her, though, I'd want my own room (but that's just me).

As someone else suggested earlier, talk to her directly (via phone not email) and discuss these issues. Let her know what you are and are not comfortable with and give her the chance to do the same. Unless you let her know that you weren't ready to move that fast, she has no reason to think otherwise.

[WeMayTryIt]

Our first time ended up being a sleepover, and we personally wouldn't recommend it (for the first time). For us, everything was so new, and there were so many things to talk about, emotions to process, etc., that we would have been much better served to have some time just to ourselves. In the end, our sleepover ended up being a two-day event, and we felt a bit out of sorts with each other. Everyone is different, and you may be fine with a sleepover (we would be now). If you do end up sharing a room, I would suggest two beds. Or better yet, a second room would be ideal.

[SnowwwWhite]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I really don't understand the single women who expect everything to be paid for by a couple... IMO, that's like saying she expects to be paid for sex.

Just another way of looking at it here:

First off to provide some perspective, I'm the kind of girl that has a hard time letting the guy I'm dating pay for too much... so this is where I'm coming from with my response. I don't believe in taking advantage. For some reason I feel like letting a guy pay all the time is showing him that you don't respect his finances (ie. his future) or that you don't value that he has to work hard for what he spends on you.

At the same time I've had several boyfriends in the past get offended that I always wanted to donate towards our activities. Some men were brought up to be chivalrous, and part of their showing care and affection is tied up in "taking care of things" whether they have lots of money or not.

With my most recent past boyfriend, I let him pay for more than I normally had in the past... but not everything. I was afraid to upset him by rejecting his generosity, and he was wonderfully generous. But it's just not in my nature to let a guy go broke taking us places. A relationship should be a team effort, both emotionally and financially.

With that said, I think I'd be offended if I was (hypothetically) the single girl playing with a couple and they didn't offer to be generous. Not that they "owe" the girl they play with, but classy people in general understand the unspoken wealth hierarchy. A couple is higher on the scale than a single girl.

Like for an example, in business... it's understood that if you're the supervisor going to lunch with a subordinate you always pay. If you're taking out your team for drinks, you either put it on your own credit card or you put it on the company card. I can't debate this with anyone in logical terms because it's not a logical practice. But there is something to be said for people who kindly and willingly pick up a tab in a social setting even though there's no tangible obligation. It says something about their level of class and their upbringing.

As a girl with many positive dating experiences to draw on, I'd much prefer to spend my time with people who are generous and classy vs. those who are tight, petty, and worried about "paying for sex." I've read a dozen times in the forums that swinging isn't a cheap endeavor. So I would naturally assume people looking to swing in personal ads aren't expecting to get to do it on the cheap. In a way, it's almost like they need to assure their potential partners that they're NOT cheap. (Just like a guy going out on a date would.)

Put yourself in the single girl's shoes... there are hundreds of couples (and single guys!) wanting you. If you come across a couple that doesn't try to "court" you, it could make you feel that they think you're cheap and undesirable or "below them"... or that you have no other options. But if you went out on a date with a guy who didn't offer to pay for dinner, wouldn't you feel the same way? Like he didn't value the opportunity to spend time with you? How many confident, sexy girls would put up with that? I'm not saying it's fair, but it's the way it is.

Couples who make it clear they value the girl and want to make sure she's comfortable are communicating in a subtle way that they appreciate her and value her time. It will only add to her respect for them and ultimately her attraction to them. (ie. These are probably going to be classy people!)

This is what confident, desirable, single girls expect from a man so why would it be a different standard for a couple?

My only alternate thought is that a couple that realizes they themselves are sexy and may be used to being sought after in club or house party situations may be stuck on themselves and feel they're doing a favor to the girl by letting her play with them.

That doesn't sound any better to me than a stuck up guy who thinks he's god's gift to women... and treats them like they should be groveling just to be with him. A couple that doesn't court a single girl with generosity and respect could easily be coming across the same way. At least to the single girls who have been treated well in the past and know what "class" looks like.

[2insandiego4u]

Originally Posted by WeMayTryIt

Our first time ended up being a sleepover, and we personally wouldn't recommend it (for the first time). For us, everything was so new, and there were so many things to talk about, emotions to process, etc., that we would have been much better served to have some time just to ourselves.

We tend to agree with this. A big part of the first time for us was enjoying the very intense "afterglow" alone as a couple. Lots of talking and sex several times that night followed the actual encounter, what a night!

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by SnowwwWhite

With that said, I think I'd be offended if I was (hypothetically) the single girl playing with a couple and they didn't offer to be generous. Not that they "owe" the girl they play with, but classy people in general understand the unspoken wealth hierarchy. A couple is higher on the scale than a single girl.

Like for an example, in business... it's understood that if you're the supervisor going to lunch with a subordinate you always pay. If you're taking out your team for drinks, you either put it on your own credit card or you put it on the company card. I can't debate this with anyone in logical terms because it's not a logical practice. But there is something to be said for people who kindly and willingly pick up a tab in a social setting even though there's no tangible obligation. It says something about their level of class and their upbringing.

As a girl with many positive dating experiences to draw on, I'd much prefer to spend my time with people who are generous and classy vs. those who are tight, petty, and worried about "paying for sex."

I can agree with you to an extent but the overall point I don't agree with. I've been the single female both in dating and in the lifestyle and I would NEVER expect a couple to pay for my part of anything. There's a difference between a couple OFFERING to pay and someone EXPECTING them to pay. So just as there's much to be said for a couple who offers to pick up the tab for a single female (or a single male, or even another couple) there's just as much to be said for any of those who EXPECT someone else to pick up their tab.

Also, I don't necessarily agree with you that couples fall higher on the wealth hiarchy than a single. Everyone's finances are different. My income as a single female was quite often higher than the guys I dated OR than any of the couples I met (with two of them put together). Which may be all the more reason I feel as strongly as I do that a single should be just as willing to pick up the tab (at the very least their own).

I've read a dozen times in the forums that swinging isn't a cheap endeavor. So I would naturally assume people looking to swing in personal ads aren't expecting to get to do it on the cheap. In a way, it's almost like they need to assure their potential partners that they're NOT cheap. (Just like a guy going out on a date would.)

It's not cheap but it doesn't have to be expensive. In this particular case you've got both the couple AND the single who are travelling to a different city to meet (meeting in the middle so to speak), that said, they should both be willing to meet in the middle on the expense as well.

Put yourself in the single girl's shoes... there are hundreds of couples (and single guys!) wanting you. If you come across a couple that doesn't try to "court" you, it could make you feel that they think you're cheap and undesirable or "below them"... or that you have no other options.
But if you went out on a date with a guy who didn't offer to pay for dinner, wouldn't you feel the same way? Like he didn't value the opportunity to spend time with you? How many confident, sexy girls would put up with that? I'm not saying it's fair, but it's the way it is.

Swinging isn't dating. I would NOT want a couple to court me in any way shape or form. The idea of a couple doing so would actually make me feel like they wanted more than just swinging out of me (something more akin to a girlfriend). The same with guys, when I was single and NOT looking for a relationship while I was fine with a guy offering to pay and if I went out with a guy more than once typically we would trade off on who paid (if not just get our own checks), but if I wasn't looking for a boyfriend then no I wouldn't want him to feel that he should be paying for anything. And in the end, really just the OFFERING to pay from a single guy was enough to let me know that he was a gentleman and valued the opportunity to spend time with me. But, if a guy is also not comfortable enough in himself to step back and say "ok" when I say that I'm not comfortable with him paying, then I know that he's got some other issues I don't want to deal with.

This is what confident, desirable, single girls expect from a man so why would it be a different standard for a couple?

Everyone is different, which is why it's all the more important to make sure that everyone expresses their expectations and needs upfront to ensure that they all match. Why should a single (of any sex) in the lifestyle expect to be or be treated differently than another couple when it comes to this? I don't think they should and just as I would not expect another couple to pick up our tab, or expect to pick up theirs (although we might offer if we consider them friends or just felt the urge), we would not expect to pick up the tab for a single, nor would/did I ever expect a couple to pick up my check as a single female.

[good times]

Originally Posted by WeMayTryIt

Our first time ended up being a sleepover, and we personally wouldn't recommend it (for the first time). For us, everything was so new, and there were so many things to talk about, emotions to process, etc., that we would have been much better served to have some time just to ourselves. In the end, our sleepover ended up being a two-day event, and we felt a bit out of sorts with each other. Everyone is different, and you may be fine with a sleepover (we would be now). If you do end up sharing a room, I would suggest two beds. Or better yet, a second room would be ideal.

Excellent points here. The first time you play with someone else you are going to want to talk about it for hours afterword, and at that point she would be the third wheel that you would prefer was somewhere else.

Originally Posted by SnowwwWhite

This is what confident, desirable, single girls expect from a man so why would it be a different standard for a couple?

I have to say that I disagree with this completely. The fact is, a single girl in the lifestyle and a single girl dating, for the good of everybody involved, better be two totally different things. On the one hand the girl is looking to be courted and is looking for a relationship. On the other hand a single swinger is looking for casual sex unencumbered by the commitments and obligations involved with an emotion relationship. Likewise, their is, or should be, no difference between a single swinger and a couple as far as their expectations and desires are concerned. They both expect to have a mutually satisfying liaison for casual sex. This would only be complicated by the obligations implied if the couple in question is paying all the bills.

The fact is, in Reno, a couple can go to the local brothels and legally pay for a woman to play with for a modest fee, and you know ahead of time what you will get and leave when you are done. I would actually be extremely leery of a single female that expected us to pay her way. Sounds like a prostitute/escort to me, their are tons of them on the internet.

To the OP,
I know several so called "escorts" personally, and I have to say if she expects you to pick up the tab for her stay, that is a major red flag to me.

[SnowwwWhite]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I can agree with you to an extent but the overall point I don't agree with. I've been the single female both in dating and in the lifestyle and I would NEVER expect a couple to pay for my part of anything. There's a difference between a couple OFFERING to pay and someone EXPECTING them to pay.

I do agree with you, Julie... it's actually quite tasteless to "expect" someone to pay for you. I think maybe my opinion stated above is more based on a single girl who hasn't been in a lot of swinging situations and is just used to having men insist on paying for things. This is just a perspective from an inexperienced female... advice for the couples who will be coming across them. I would think it's possible there are plenty of single girls out there who are new to swinging and may feel the same way I do. It would be helpful for couples who encounter them to understand where they're coming from. It's a conditioned, culturally-natural response from a single girl who has always been treated chivalrously.

For me, I would "notice" if a couple wasn't being generous, and based on my past experiences it actually would be a turn-off. I never expect someone to pay and am always prepared to pay for both me and my partner wherever we go if necessary.

But I can't HELP but notice if someone doesn't offer because it has happened so rarely (or maybe never). This is the key! It's not about being an escort or a prostitute. It's just how I've always been treated so I would readily notice if someone treated me otherwise.

So many past experiences have molded my perception of how people treat you when they value you and when they want to spend time with you. If I had started swinging or seeking casual encounters at an earlier age maybe I would see things differently and understand when a couple or a single guy wants to be with me but isn't naturally generous.

We all have different backgrounds and different ways of seeing the world... This is just mine. Not right and not wrong. Just a perception based on experiences. It's not that inexperienced single girls are bad or want to take advantage. We've just had different experiences so we're conditioned to see things differently than an experienced swinger. I think this is one of the great values of these forums. You can have access to the thoughts and feelings of so many different kinds of people with so many varied backgrounds. And no one is necessarily right or wrong. They're just adding to the general knowledge base and the OP can read everything and decide what opinions have value for their specific situation.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by HisnHersnYours

...she wrote back. "im up for anything as long as i have a place to sleep" i just assumed we werent at that place yet of sleepovers....what is the protocol for this?

Her comment about having a place to sleep could have meant nothing more than she'll need a place to sleep...kind of like saying if I have food on my plate, a place to sleep, and a hot shower I'm a happy camper!

Still, it's best to be clear about the sleeping arrangements and really all you have to do is let her know what hotel you're staying at so she can get herself a room there too. Letting her know that you and your husband prefer your own room is very okay, as other experienced swingers have said already, it's standard protocol for them for the reasons they've mentioned. We always get our own room when we meet couples.

I play solo with couples where I stay with them in their room because they invited me AND - most important - I've played with them on many occasions as a couple, with my husband. We knew each other well and had already played so we all felt very comfortable sharing a room. Even then, if I would ever play with a couple who I'd played with before, and they preferred separate rooms, I'd be fine with that. I may even prefer my own room with couples who I know well and I'd not hesitate to let them know I'd prefer my own room. I make that decision based on the couple.

I see no reason for you to pay for her room. Any single should be willing to pay for her swinging costs, just as a couple does. It's nice when the couple pays for my drinks or dinner and they most always do, even though I offer to pay for myself. Sometimes I pay for their drinks, it's a give and take with people you continue to play with. I also always offer to pay for half the room cost when I stay with a couple.

At this point you don't know for sure you all will play. All the more reason to have your own rooms.

On a final note in response to another post: How much you think a person makes for a living should never be a consideration when it comes to paying your own way. If I was single I'd find it offensive if a couple presumed I didn't make as much as they do just because I was single.

LM

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

Her comment about having a place to sleep could have meant nothing more than she'll need a place to sleep...kind of like saying if I have food on my plate, a place to sleep, and a hot shower I'm a happy camper!

Still, it's best to be clear about the sleeping arrangements and really all you have to do is let her know what hotel you're staying at so she can get herself a room there too. Letting her know that you and your husband prefer your own room is very okay, as other experienced swingers have said already, it's standard protocol for them for the reasons they've mentioned. We always get our own room when we meet couples.

Good Points all the way across there. We were quick to jump on that and say that she was expecting you to pay but it is possible that she's not. Again it goes back to communication and TALKING with her about what your and her comfort levels and expectations are regarding this meeting.

[WeMayTryIt]

Originally Posted by SnowwwWhite

For me, I would "notice" if a couple wasn't being generous, and based on my past experiences it actually would be a turn-off. I never expect someone to pay and am always prepared to pay for both me and my partner wherever we go if necessary.

But I can't HELP but notice if someone doesn't offer because it has happened so rarely (or maybe never). This is the key! It's not about being an escort or a prostitute. It's just how I've always been treated so I would readily notice if someone treated me otherwise.

So many past experiences have molded my perception of how people treat you when they value you and when they want to spend time with you.

So if you were still single and didn't offer to pick up the tab for a couple, would you be offended when they "notice" you aren't being generous, they are turned off and take it to mean that you don't value them or want to spend time with them?