A long one but need advice please!

[SnowwwWhite]

Admittedly moving away may be a bit extreme. I guess if it was me in that situation, I personally wouldn't want to ever have to see a woman again who seduced my husband. If I was forced to be in the same circles and see her at the same grocery store or whatever, I'd be horrified. It would be crippling to me. This was just my personal take on that situation. I don't have a husband or kids but it's how I imagined I'd feel.

Maybe the OP doesn't feel as strongly against this woman (as I imagine it) and it's all manageable without putting distance between you. But for me, I would have had a really hard time knowing I could see this person at any time. It would be paralyzing to me... and I would be better off knowing I never had to see her again and there would be no chance of accidental meetings.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by SnowwwWhite

Admittedly moving away may be a bit extreme. I guess if it was me in that situation, I personally wouldn't want to ever have to see a woman again who seduced my husband. If I was forced to be in the same circles and see her at the same grocery store or whatever, I'd be horrified. It would be crippling to me. This was just my personal take on that situation. I don't have a husband or kids but it's how I imagined I'd feel.

Maybe the OP doesn't feel as strongly against this woman (as I imagine it) and it's all manageable without putting distance between you. But for me, I would have had a really hard time knowing I could see this person at any time. It would be paralyzing to me... and I would be better off knowing I never had to see her again and there would be no chance of accidental meetings.

Not just this situation in this thread, but any situation. You can't run from your problems, you have to face them. If you run from issues every time something big comes up you'll be running (and moving) and awful lot in life. Life is full of risks, and swinging just adds more. You may need to ask yourself if swinging as a couple is something you could ever imagine yourself doing with someone that you care about? It's a very different thing than swinging as a single, or going to club with a guy that you don't really have feelings for just to have a partner there.

[SnowwwWhite]

Betrayal is just a really sensitive issue for me. I would take a bullet for the people I love. So when they betray it brings on a whole range of pain, mistrust, regret, and self-reprisal. It hurts immensely to realize someone you care for would sooner stab you in the back than have to cross the street. Seeing them over and over would bring the pain on again and again.

I just know for myself that it's not so much "running away from a problem," as much as it is cutting off the source of potential drama. Obviously it would be ludicrous to run away over something benign, or when it's possible to avoid the source of betrayal with minor adjustments.

[nervous2tryagai]

Trust me, I would love to run away from this person. More than anything. The fact is, my small kids are "best friends" with her kids. It would tear apart more than I am willing to lose. So many relationships would be shattered. These people are "family".

I am making the appt for couples counseling today. We have agreed to put any swinging on hold for now and get to the root of this.

I am struggling with the fact I really can't confront her, any more than I have. She has run to her husband for "protection" so to speak. (Don't forget, the things that were done, were done at my expense, not so much at his). He tells me to stop thinking about the details and the conversations, that it will just make me go crazy. My argument is that I need to UNDERSTAND how it happened, so conversations ARE important (ie, who initiated saying certain things). He blocks me at every turn, reminding me that this was the "box" that we agreed to open and now that said situation is over, to just move past it. My argument is this is not the "box" that I agreed to, and just because you give 2 ppl permission to sleep together, doesn't give them right to live a "life" with eachother of 180 phone calls in 2 weeks, saying the things they said, etc. This was an emotional affair, plain and simple. And I think the only way I can get control of that, is to see a counselor. I love my husband and do not want to leave and will not leave. I want to get to the root of how he (in my eyes) was manipulated to the point he pushed me out of his head.

[SnowwwWhite]

You seem to have your head on straight and are trying to deal with the most important part of this: your relationship with your husband. It's great to hear that you're in counseling with him. I wish you the best of luck.

It sounds to me that the other woman doesn't want to talk about it because she's ashamed of what she tried to do to you and how she betrayed your trust. She and her husband want you to move past it so they don't have to deal with it. Sorry, but there are consequences and you shouldn't be the only one paying them.

Respectfully, I still don't understand how you can see these people and have them in your life (and call them "family") knowing what happened between her and your husband. I know in this world it's politically correct to always have everything be "for the children," but as a former child myself I had best friends come and go in and out of my life due to one or both of our parents moving, divorcing, or whatever. Losing close friends is part of life and while it was sad it wasn't permanently traumatizing. Food for thought.

What WOULD have been traumatizing would be to find out my best friend's parent tried to break up my mom and dad's marriage... or to find out my best friend's mom (who I see so often and probably like), is actually a two-faced, dishonest, manipulative bitch who tried to split my parents up. Imagine if your children ever found that out... imagine how impressionable they are and how that would damage their trust in people... and how they would feel betrayed that you allowed them to continue bonding with this woman. At least just consider that perspective, regardless of what you do.

Consider for your children's sake that while childhood friendships are meaningful, a stable family and loving father is 100x more valuable... and impossible to replace once lost. You guys have a lot at stake and it's up to you and your husband to do the wisest thing... not to protect everyone's feelings right now, but to protect your family's FUTURE.

[theflamekasters]

Originally Posted by tittietwister

That's an affair - not swinging.

Sounds like she knew what she wanted and the overture to swing was just a pretense to pursue a relationship with him. Now he's shown he can't be trusted to honor rules.

I think you need to less concerned about experiencing swinging and more concerned about understanding why he succumbed so easily and what you can both learn from this to strengthen your marriage. Perhaps a counselor could help.

I tottally agree, and this is why you should NEVER EVER play with friends you already had before you go into the lifestyle!!!!! This type of situation happens to every one we have met that does this!!! You all arent swingers at this point!!! sex cupid mentioned some info on clubs, follw her advice, look into clubs, and reosrts and what not. And get the hell away from this cpl sexually.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by nervous2tryagai

I am struggling with the fact I really can't confront her, any more than I have. She has run to her husband for "protection" so to speak. (Don't forget, the things that were done, were done at my expense, not so much at his). He tells me to stop thinking about the details and the conversations, that it will just make me go crazy. My argument is that I need to UNDERSTAND how it happened, so conversations ARE important (ie, who initiated saying certain things). He blocks me at every turn, reminding me that this was the "box" that we agreed to open and now that said situation is over, to just move past it. My argument is this is not the "box" that I agreed to, and just because you give 2 ppl permission to sleep together, doesn't give them right to live a "life" with eachother of 180 phone calls in 2 weeks, saying the things they said, etc. This was an emotional affair, plain and simple. And I think the only way I can get control of that, is to see a counselor. I love my husband and do not want to leave and will not leave. I want to get to the root of how he (in my eyes) was manipulated to the point he pushed me out of his head.

I think you NEED to confront her, especially if you intend to keep them in your lives at all. While I said that moving away was extreme (and it is), it would not be extreme to not want to have any contact with this woman/ family again. I don't know that I could ever trust her again near your husband, and I would not want her in my life. You need to sit her down and tell her exactly how you feel. You may even want to consider a group counseling session for all four of you with an understanding counselor. You can NOT continue on like nothing happened (which I think is what everyone else involved is expecting of you).

[J&D]

As I read through this thread I did not see anything about the other husbands response/feelings. Does he know what his wife was doing? It is possible that he did care.

Just a thought

[nervous2tryagai]

A lot more has come out that I now know. Things my husband said that really have me concerned. Obviously, swinging is off the table right now and I understand this is a swingers board, so if this isn't appropriate for me to put here, I understand. I just feel you guys might understand better. These are the things she said that he said, and upon confronting him, he did indeed say them but can't explain why. He tried to turn it around on me, blaming me for "digging", but I came back with that is my RIGHT...that if the two of them had kept their mouths shut and been on the up and up, I wouldn't have anything to dig about.

The situation all started the beginning of June, and continued during a trip with the kids that she and I took. We went for a week, and he and I fought a bit during that week. To the point that at the end while driving, I was telling him how emotionally tough it was for me that week (dealing with living in cramped quarters with her and 7 kids and I felt I was the "babysitter" of her 3 and my 4 at all times) and he said I was to blame for that. Basically, at that point, I couldn't take anymore stress from him, and I was saying I can't do this any more. We talked, he cried and told me he was sorry. He then went on to call her on her phone (we took separate cars) and brag how he even "pretended to cry". That hit me like a ton of bricks when I found that out yesterday. These are the things below that he said to her.

The day I called him to log into my credit card account because my ass was in the negative he said

"Please let me transfer the money so I can get you the hell out of there. I really miss you and want to see you"-- I said no, don't worry about it, that I will take care of it, he said he wanted to get me out of there and away from you so I would be in a better mood.


During the bitch fest on the way home from Vermont, he told me he wonders why you think your fat....because you sit and eat ice cream all day. He knows why he is fat, because he drinks beer.

He wanted to leave but knew he couldn't because the money it would cost him to you to pay for child support and alimony he knows he didn't make enough and you would rake him over the coals for it. (rake over the coals is not exact-but to that tune)

The Saturday we came down after Vermont...I heard over and over how much he wanted me and missed me so much. To the tune of showing me he was hard when you and Andy where outside. -Yes I did say it back, but if it's all coming out, then it's all coming out.

The delete, delete delete issue. Mutual. He didn't want you to see any of the things said. It was not just me, it was he who agreed to it as well, thinking you would be pissed over the talking. Not the amount of which, but what we where talking about.

The fight I had with Andy the day we came back home, he told me to make "nicey" with Andy so that he would want to come down, so Alex could be near me.

Told me he didn't cry with you on the phone. But admitted to me that he cried to me when he told me he loved me when we where talking on the pass. (when you where trying to beep in that day)

One of the extended phone conversations on the cell was a day you where supposed to be home, but hadn't returned from being out yet, he drove around the block for about half hour to stay on the phone with me. Also stopped at "our" Burger King parking lot so he could stay on the phone with me. Our being the word he used, not me.

The day Jury duty day happened, I can't count on both hands how many times I asked him, if he was sure he wanted to do it. He said yes. He was sure and wanted it. I am the one who made it a point to make sure this was what he wanted.



So, with this information, any insight into whether I am an idiot to stay with him, or whether I should try and work it out?

[JustAskJulie]

A lot of the little things that were said or that happened are hard to make sense of for us since we weren't there. It's like we are getting 30 second bits of a day and trying to understand the whole day based on it. There's no way to know really whether you should or shouldn't stay, that's something you will have to decide for yourself since you are the one who has the most information. At the very least you need to seek some counseling on your own and with him. Talk to him, ask him if he wants to be with you, does he really feel that he would leave if it were not for financial reasons? The only way you can really work this out and determine what is the best answer is to deal with him. I would not continue any discussions with HER, only with him. This is something the two of you need to work through without her involvement.