She can't make up her mind

BigirlandHubby · 02-23-2008, 04:03 PM

Hey all. This may not be an original post, but I need some advice.

My wife is bisexual (very much so, she says she would probably be with women more than men if we were not married). At first the idea of other men was fun for her, but now she has little to no interest in other men due to most of the ones we have been with being unable to perform. We tend to mix with couples because it's impossible to find stable, single females (we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up). My wife has had multiple experiences with guys who don't get and/or don't stay hard, and has taken it quite personally (even though she is very attractive). Because of this, she goes back and forth about weather or not she wants to be doing this at all.

Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking. I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out.

Do you guys have any advice? I have tried talking with my wife, we have been together 15 years and communicate well, but she always says we have to "Go at her pace" with this. Which her pace is me not really being involved, and that bothers me. Has anyone experienced something like this?

VegasLee · 02-23-2008, 04:24 PM

It is time to stop and take a break.

You two need to sit down, talk and find something that works for both of you. This is not to be just about one of you. You are a couple, sharing life together and it has to work for both or it won't work for either in the long run.

It takes hard decisions at times but someone has to make them. Sit her down, tell her what you told us and tell her the swinging such as it is with you two is off until you can come up with a plan that works for both of you.

Swinging is not for everyone and what you have is not working so why do it?

**TNT** · 02-23-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasLee

It is time to stop and take a break.

You two need to sit down, talk and find something that works for both of you. This is not to be just about one of you. You are a couple, sharing life together and it has to work for both or it won't work for either in the long run.

It takes hard decisions at times but someone has to make them. Sit her down, tell her what you told us and tell her the swinging such as it is with you two is off until you can come up with a plan that works for both of you.

Swinging is not for everyone and what you have is not working so why do it?

I was in the process of replying when I read Lee's post...there's nothing I can add....Lee said it all.

Teresa

**LikeMinds321** · 02-23-2008, 04:46 PM

"She can't make up her mind"

Actually, I think she has.

She wants women, not men, and maybe she's looking on her own because she wants to play alone. Or maybe she's never been happy with your choice of picks; did you used to have all the control over that?

Quote:

Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking. I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out.

For her to have such control over you there must be some threat you're allowing to influence you. Could it be the threat of never being able to swing again?

If either spouse has no say in swinging - and at this point you've got none - you're going nowhere good. You've got to be working on this together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

...we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up.

This caught my attention. Why can't you ever call her?

LM

Spoomonkey · 02-23-2008, 05:15 PM

Apparently, I haven't spread reputation around enough to give the "thumb's up" to VegasLee...

Personally, I think that is his fault. This whole "being right" thing he has going on is a little "over the top"...

So, I am stuck with

Spoomonkey

BigirlandHubby · 02-23-2008, 05:20 PM

We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends.

But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc...

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her. My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us online and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected.

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

***JustAskJulie*** · 02-23-2008, 05:24 PM

This isn't a matter of going at "HER PACE". Her pace is to look every day and her doing everything. She doesn't want you involved in this process for some reason and you need to sit down with her and find out what that is.

You were posting at the same time I was....

You are right it's not healthy. There's a serious double standard going on her. It's not about you as a couple, it IS ABOUT HER, or at least she is making it that way.

Why does she want women who are attractive but not more than her? Because she's insecure and worried that she might lose both of her playmates to each other. She has to maintain control because she is insecure in herself. But, she wants what she wants.

**two4youinswva** · 02-23-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

You're right. It's not healthy.

Swinging is supposed to be fun. This isn't. So yes, you should at least take a break.

**fun4Ds** · 02-23-2008, 07:47 PM

Before I add my two cents, I would like to say that I agree with Lee. Its hard not to agree, because he makes sense with few words. I personally admire that. The end results are exactly what he points out and that would work with experienced swingers.

But I have been through finding out things with a bisexual wife are not always 50/50 from beginning to end. Some times talking to my wife, I find out more about her.. by just listening. Its hard sometimes to understand because,

1. I'm not a woman.
2. I'm not bisexual.

So what the fuck would I know about either, or how to get what we both want equally. Its not all (here is how it works sometimes) This has been at times another Maze in life. And yes when it gets confusing I feel like a mouse in a maze. Sometimes our relationship is not all swinger true.

The payoff being the cheese, In this maze of a womans bisexuality. The cheese being getting what we both want. But ya know what, sometimes I feel like... Who Moved The Cheese??

Its how I listen to my wifes needs, and let her have her way sometimes. It may not be 50-50 every swinging experience. In our relationship I (COULDN'T) sit my wife down and explain how according to the swinging lifestyle we both get what we want today. Its how I venture through the maze of the unknown. I certainly wouldn't want to get fat off of the cheese and find myself not enjoying the adventure. I would rather go about the excitement my bisexual wife gives me sharing what I don't always know or understand. I love the knot knowing, the end results, and whats around the next corner.

Welcome to the Swingers Board Bigirlandhubby, and the world of a bisexual wife

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

Hey all. This may not be an original post, but I need some advice.

My wife is bisexual (very much so, she says she would probably be with women more than men if we were not married). At first the idea of other men was fun for her, but now she has little to no interest in other men due to most of the ones we have been with being unable to perform.

Maybe thats true, but maybe she has more on her mind than you know about... Yet. She may want to explore the feelings she has about herself. Would you want to interfere with that ? Or embrace something that she might want you there for? In her own way.

Quote:

We tend to mix with couples because it's impossible to find stable, single females (we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up). My wife has had multiple experiences with guys who don't get and/or don't stay hard, and has taken it quite personally (even though she is very attractive). Because of this, she goes back and forth about weather or not she wants to be doing this at all.

Ahhh, The cheese has been moved now. Its confusing as hell sometimes, I understand. But the thing is, these are women in your life. Your partner being the most important woman, perhaps in your life. Her feelings are not gone or impossible to find. Ask her how she feels, not what she wants. Listening to the answers is the key. They wont always be the answers you want, but the answers you and her need to deal with.

Quote:

Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking.

Give her space, and time with her feelings, she has allot of things she may not be able to... Explain. Being on the sidelines as a supporter is not being left out. I would think she knows your there but needs security and your support. Honestly, I let my wife take the date making at one point. I have no regrets.

Quote:

I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out.

STAND BESIDE HER. Or at least just a little behind her.

Quote:

Do you guys have any advice? I have tried talking with my wife, we have been together 15 years and communicate well, but she always says we have to "Go at her pace" with this. Which her pace is me not really being involved, and that bothers me. Has anyone experienced something like this?

I don't know much, but what I have learned about something I had no clue or good advice about when we began this different road in the lifestyle. I read the advice from bisexual women here on the board.. And listened to my wife. Its good sometimes to have someone show you the things you don't always understand. It takes time and a willing to let the unknown, with someone you are willing to trust, be the enjoyment.

MRSfun · 02-23-2008, 09:53 PM

Hopefully Mr.fun4ds makes sense to you. He is my husband, my man. His ways of understanding are a little different at times (The cheese and all)

But I get what he is saying.Yes, I've watched him support me patiently through a few years in this issue. I didn't know always how he felt. I know he didn't always know how I felt. I hope you understand how your wife feels. That is whats most important. Her feelings.
[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends.

It sounds like she is being your unicorn. Whats the problem other than the frequency? I had allot of the same feelings. It has to do with me connecting with the woman I would be playing with. That connection is what I wanted to share with my husband. Its not always the show for two males.

Quote:

But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc...

Thats what most couples find on the net. We found one female/female bisexual couple and one submissive unicorn in two years searching the net. Thats pretty lucky. We do belong to a group from sls that is strictly for couples with bi females and single bi females only. Have you tried that in your search? And bare in mind these get togethers are some of the best we have encountered BUT.... Its more about us women than the men. If we want to put on a show we do, but we women as a group have much more control of any and all situations. The women there gave me the comfort and connection that I needed at the time.More than anyone els we had been with in the beginning.

Quote:

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her.

Guess what, When it comes to my bisexual side... ITS MY PUSSY!!!

Does your wife tell you what man you will be playing with at the next get together?

Quote:

My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us on line and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected.

I cant say how your wife feels, I don't know her and actually would love to hear her side about now. I could relate to how she feels by the way you are explaining things. Thank you for that. But there again when it comes to playing with anyone, male or female the same rule applies.

Ill pick and choose who I want to play with. ITS MY PUSSY !!!

Quote:

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together

")

So now you call it quits because things aren't going as hoped for, and quiting while your mad at each other angry or fighting...... If its one thing we have seen with couples that have come as far as you two have. None have actually walked away and stayed away leaving the lifestyle angry. Usually they make up and come to agreements or Divorce in their anger.

Only One couple we know of walked away so far we can say we know. They were calm and peacefull about it. They are still together.

sexcupid · 02-24-2008, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRSfun

Guess what, When it comes to my bisexual side... ITS MY PUSSY!!!

MrsFun...agreed it's your pussy and you pick who you play with and are most comfortable with. I think that pretty much everyone here will agree with your statement....just becasue we swing doesn't mean we'll drop trou for any and all.

However, I would like the OP to explain the statement that we have both quoted. The way I am reading that is the wife has placed some sort of restrictions on him during playtime, but she has no rules/restrictions. But, I've been wrong many times before...so if the OP could please clarify and/or give examples.

Also...I like Mrfun's 'cheese' analogy...a company I worked for a few years back used a motivational type of video call, 'Who moved my cheese?'

Tybee Swing · 02-24-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking.

Because she is much pickier and much more slow to move forward with people, perhaps she has felt pushed or rushed when you are flirting with women you meet, hunting, and planning. Or, perhaps when you're hunting, you're presenting people to her that 9 times in 10, she has no interest in. Maybe asking you to stop doing that, while she continues just looking (you only used the word "looking" in what she's doing online) is her pace. As she looks, maybe she's trying to figure things out for herself. Maybe she feels that there's only going to be 1 in 1,000 that will be of interest to her. Sometimes, men can get so anxious and so into the hunt, that it can overwhelm a woman who is slower, and make her feel like he is rushing ahead of her. (I don't know you, but this is just something to consider.)

I think she's so extremely picky about men ("ewww, he had a little hair on his chest" or "he looked a little chunky in one of his pics"), is because she really doesn't want to be with men in swinging. There are some women on one end of the bi spectrum who are only interested in their own man and exploring with other women. Swinging with couples isn't really their thing. When you add the fact that most of the men she's been with haven't been able to keep an erection, that's just another nail in the coffin for her, with going forward with men.

She definitely has self-esteem issues/insecurities with her competitiveness with other women. They have to be just pretty enough, but not prettier than her. The one that will be just cute enough but not threatening to her will be few and far between. Since it's hard enough to find stable, fun, and willing single women in any range of looks, she's pretty much set herself up to find nobody to play with, unless she finds that one-in-a-million. Most people are into this just for fun, and this is casual. If she ever finds that one-in-a-million that makes her feel everything she needs to feel before she can enjoy herself, how will she feel if that person enjoys playing with her/you a couple of times, and then moves on? She will probably take it very personally and be crushed.

Most swingers don't stick around longterm - they're just having fun. Your wife's approach isn't casual, and it isn't fun. She's making so much more out of all of this than it needs to be. If she can learn to relax and understand that it's "just sex", and it's probably temporary, she might be a little more flexible and open-minded about her choices. Unless...swinging isn't for her?

Maybe what she's really looking for is a girlfriend, someone who will stay in her life. I wonder if she's more into polyamory than she is in swinging. It would explain why her approach isn't so casual, and she seems to be looking for that rare, exceptional person before she can be comfortable. Maybe this is something that you can bring up to her in conversation. Talk to her with no anger at all, and have a real conversation about what she wants and needs.

You're angry and frustrated and feeling left out of the hunt. To get into your wife's head, put all of that aside while you talk this through. She may be more confused about what she's looking for than you are. But, maybe you two can figure it out together. After you both figure it out, then you'll have to see if you can find some common ground that you're both comfortable with.

**fun4Ds** · 02-24-2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexcupid

Quote:

Also...I like Mrfun's 'cheese' analogy...a company I worked for a few years back used a motivational type of video call, 'Who moved my cheese?'

My grandmother gave me the original book years ago. She was very inspirational and missed dearly.

I didn't know about a video.

We hope bigirlandhubby stay with us. Like Tybee said there are many thoughts and sometimes even confusions sometimes we encounter in the lifestyle. Its the choices we make in our paths that helps us understand one another. I for one have learned that how my wife feels is just as, if not more important, than the questions at hand. Listening and understanding her feelings usually answer the why's for me personally.

sweet_tna · 02-24-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigirlandHubby

We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends.

But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc...

I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her. My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us online and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected.

The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

Allow me to offer a slightly different perspective here. I'm in the process of exploring my bi side, which means I may potentially be playing with both members of whatever couple we're meeting/looking for. For that reason, my level of attraction is going to carry slightly more weight than Mr. Sweet's. And generally, if I don't find the woman attractive, he doesn't either.

Mr. Sweet is happy to sit back and let me lead the way regarding who we play with or don't. This is not to say he has no say at all, though. If there's someone he's particularly interested in, I'll certainly give them consideration.

I'm relieved to hear that things with your female friend and her husband are all out in the open. If the frequency of activity is what bothers you and/or your wife, then I'd be on the lookout for someone else, too.

Which then brings us to the point of where your wife is doing all this searching, and leaving you out. Have you even tried going to clubs, parties, or meet and greets? This is a great way to get to know other couples and singles with a little less frustration on everyone's part. You get time to talk to each other, flirt, and maybe even play a bit if all are so inclined. If you decide you're not hitting it off, you have the option of moving on to someone else right away.

All that said, I do feel your wife's self consciosness issues need to be addressed. It's causing everyone a lot of frustration, and if neither of you is enjoying it, it's not worth doing. So talk to her. Let her know how you're feeling, and remind her that if you're going by the pace of the slowest runner and you want to STOP or at least take a break, then that's the pace you both should adhere to.

Best of luck to ya'll,

=)

BigirlandHubby · 02-25-2008, 04:25 PM

Hello everyone
I am the "bi girl" in the duo "bi girl and hubby". I greatly appreciate all of your input. Hubby got on here in a genuinely sweet way to try to sort things out. I appreciate him looking for advice on a topic that we are still discovering and learning about.

I wanted to clarify a few things. Hubby is comfortable with anything & everything... he has not a jealous bone in his body... so when he mentioned our "rules"... it may have sounded more strict than it is (at least in my eyes). I do feel that he has been overly eager in this process and when he sees people he finds attractive (especially if the woman is attractive & we both agree... but the guy is ho-hum) then he will, dare I say "push", in a loving but still eager way to "just meet"... but I have a problem meeting with the expectation of what we are all in this for (SEX) and then rejecting people when they are fun & fantastic... but I still don't find the guy attractive. I have an easier time being picky on line than to someones face. I loved the "IT'S MY PUSSY"... and that is my new motto. Hubby has never ever ever forced me to do anything.... he is the most amazing guy in the entire world... we have been together for 15+ years (high school sweethearts) and we are both in our early 30's.

For me, I have self-esteem issues. The Tybee Swing... do you know me?

LOL... you hit the nail on the head and I was reading out loud to Hubby after he showed me what he'd found in this board and some of the responses that he'd found... I read your response :

Because she is much pickier and much more slow to move forward with people, perhaps she has felt pushed or rushed when you are flirting with women you meet, hunting, and planning. Or, perhaps when you're hunting, you're presenting people to her that 9 times in 10, she has no interest in. Maybe asking you to stop doing that, while she continues just looking (you only used the word "looking" in what she's doing online) is her pace. As she looks, maybe she's trying to figure things out for herself. Maybe she feels that there's only going to be 1 in 1,000 that will be of interest to her. Sometimes, men can get so anxious and so into the hunt, that it can overwhelm a woman who is slower, and make her feel like he is rushing ahead of her. (I don't know you, but this is just something to consider.)

I think she's so extremely picky about men ("ewww, he had a little hair on his chest" or "he looked a little chunky in one of his pics"), is because she really doesn't want to be with men in swinging. There are some women on one end of the bi spectrum who are only interested in their own man and exploring with other women. Swinging with couples isn't really their thing. When you add the fact that most of the men she's been with haven't been able to keep an erection, that's just another nail in the coffin for her, with going forward with men.

She definitely has self-esteem issues/insecurities with her competitiveness with other women.

That is so true... and I agree that I am overly picky... but it goes back to the "it's my pussy" thing... and also... I don't want to be in a situation where I feel trumped... some porn star looking woman for my hubby to fuck... I know it isn't about comparison, but in my eyes I would be comparing and wishing I physically looked like her... like girls who look at magazines in an unhealthy way and want to be thin. I am not a "fat" girl... I am shapely and curvy and love my body (most of the time

) but it is like this for me... I want to bring a copy of myself into bed with us. The female we have been with (her husband allows her to play alone and we've done that one time) is great physically... I feel like we are physically very similar.

I wanted to speak up on this board and get into the discussion because I am guessing that lots of you can help me and give me great advice out there. I have so many different "issues"... things that I have sorted through and as I am finding myself in this journey and realizing that I am hot and attractive, lots of my fears are going away (so, can you say "abandoned by my father at as a young child - physically abused by him when I was young - found the love of my life at an early age and worry that he'll be less attracted to me if he fucks some hot ass woman, my father left, why wouldn't my husband - mind you, my husband is NOTHING like my father but a father is supposed to stay with you through your life and be there for you... abandonment is a big issue with me - worrying about suffering in comparison... blah blah blah - parents can really mess with your head even after they are out of your life!)

So, to start off somewhat slow, I can let you know that the "rules" we have set up regarding our "playing" don't have to really do with during playtime - we stay within arms reach of each other (past experience of some man taking me out of arms reach - our first experience ever was a big mistake and got us started off on the wrong foot - and while Hubby was fucking his wife, the guy was limper than a noodle and kissing me like we were 13 - EWWWW). So, we also try to wait to make sure that the "other guy" is going to be able to perform before Hubby "gives it to" the other woman. Ideal situation for me is to have just a single person in bed with us - male or female - those have been my favorite experiences and we have had both. It is more about us playing with ONE person rather than us going off with the person we are "expected" to swap with. I am not really into the guys either... the single male we were with was super attractive and a friend of Hubby's and that was a bit different... but for me it is about my bi-side... I have an amazing cock (and even better Hubby attached to it - LOL

)... to play with whenever and wherever I want to... so that is not lacking in my life. We have an amazing sex life. But, usually to find a woman who is willing to play, I have to "take one for the team" with her hubby... and it isn't that I think he's gross because I won't go there if he is... but it is like I see Hubby playing with MY TOY...

... that being the woman... and Hubby. I want to be in that game... not off with some guy who I could give a shit about fucking.

I know some have said we should not be swinging... and on some days, I could not agree more. But, I think back to the experiences of our MMF, and the one time we had our FFM... and there was 1 or 2 couple experiences in there that were "good"... and I think that it is FUN and can be FUN... but I always feel like it is taking up too much of our time... our conversations seem to revolve around that topic and I refuse to let swinging define us... we are so much more than swinging... we are high school sweethearts, we have 2 amazing kids, we are more in love everyday we are together, we are best friends, we know each other inside & out... but we are also opposites in a lot of ways and so this is something we have in common to "do" together... and so when Hubby brings it up, I tend to think "Oh, that is all he thinks about is fucking other women"... but in all honesty, I have gotten past that way of thinking quite a bit lately... but it tends to be a sore spot for me. I just want it to be like a hobby, something we do occasionally, not something that we argue about because Bi-girl isn't meeting the desired frequency or meeting up with anyone this month... we have to go at my pace or not at all... and if that means we stop for a while, then we do that so I can take a breath... but ultimately, I start up again.

I loved the cheese analogy too... and I have to say that sometimes to hide the cheese really well... I eat it! LOL!!! It is GONE!!! Yes, it is a maze and unfair for him to have to "figure me out"... but if he can just be patient and let me drive and not side seat drive and piss me off, I know I can make this fun and I know we can do this together.

I look forward to any & all advice you have regarding what you think and I am excited about being on this forum.

Bi-girl (Hubby is at work)

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02-23-2008, 04:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
BigirlandHubby Active Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 21 Location: Orlando Status: Couple SLS Name:bigirlandhubby	She can't make up her mind Hey all. This may not be an original post, but I need some advice. My wife is bisexual (very much so, she says she would probably be with women more than men if we were not married). At first the idea of other men was fun for her, but now she has little to no interest in other men due to most of the ones we have been with being unable to perform. We tend to mix with couples because it's impossible to find stable, single females (we have one married female who plays alone with us, but very rarely and it's 100% up to her when she comes over to play, we can't call her up). My wife has had multiple experiences with guys who don't get and/or don't stay hard, and has taken it quite personally (even though she is very attractive). Because of this, she goes back and forth about weather or not she wants to be doing this at all. Here is the issue. I am willing to stop but I don't like the idea, however, when I have tried to just kill our AFF account, my wife won't do that. However, she also doesn't want me on the web sites looking for women or couples, doesn't want me flirting with women we meet, she doesn't involve me in "hunting" or planning anything, and no I am basically not "allowed" to bring it up, even though I know she is online most days looking. I never know where I stand and it's driving me nuts because I really do love the lifestyle but it's really not fun to be left out. Do you guys have any advice? I have tried talking with my wife, we have been together 15 years and communicate well, but she always says we have to "Go at her pace" with this. Which her pace is me not really being involved, and that bothers me. Has anyone experienced something like this?

02-23-2008, 04:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
VegasLee Laura's Male Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,277 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Status: Laura's Male	Re: She can't make up her mind It is time to stop and take a break. You two need to sit down, talk and find something that works for both of you. This is not to be just about one of you. You are a couple, sharing life together and it has to work for both or it won't work for either in the long run. It takes hard decisions at times but someone has to make them. Sit her down, tell her what you told us and tell her the swinging such as it is with you two is off until you can come up with a plan that works for both of you. Swinging is not for everyone and what you have is not working so why do it? __________________ Lee Lifestyles News *Remember when Swinging was about having sex?*

02-23-2008, 05:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
Spoomonkey Chimpin' Ain't Easy Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 6,563 Location: Ohio Status: Married Monkeys - will you be our vine? SLS Name:Spoomonkey	Re: She can't make up her mind Apparently, I haven't spread reputation around enough to give the "thumb's up" to VegasLee... Personally, I think that is his fault. This whole "being right" thing he has going on is a little "over the top"... So, I am stuck with Spoomonkey __________________ "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

02-23-2008, 05:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
BigirlandHubby Active Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 21 Location: Orlando Status: Couple SLS Name:bigirlandhubby	Re: She can't make up her mind We can't call our female because she is married to a guy who we also play with. So we can call them both over, but never her alone (and her alone is what my wife is in the mood for more often than not). So she decides when she comes over alone because it's on nights when her husband is out and she is looking to play. He knows, and is perfectly fine with it (in fact it was his suggestion the first time), and the four of us are very good friends. But you are 100% right, what my wife is really looking for is a single female (for us, not just her). The 2 year search is very frustrating for both of us, because we will find someone, talk to her for a week or so, and then she says "so my boyfriend and I want to meet..." or more than once "I just met this great guy and here is a picture of him" (which is inevitably some out of shape guy... I can't stand the couples that fish with a "single female" as bait).. or, we end up not hearing from her after initial mails..etc... I have absolute veto rights in who we swing with, but there are a ton of rules on me, and none on her. My wife is very picky. The women have to be less attractive than her, but still attractive, we have to be friends first which takes a lot of "dating" which can get frustrating for them. It's a tough situation because she has sort of a warped self-image so many of the couples that are into us, she finds the women "threatening" (including our rare semi-single female) which is tough for me because we do have a lot of attractive couples mail us online and we never write back because they are "too attractive", or the woman is hot and the guy is just not attractive at all (and I have said she should never "take one for the team"). She has major fears of rejection, and the multiple experiences with limp guys have just reinforced those fears. Then we find couples that seem right for us, but some problem comes up (the woman is too hot, the husband looked heavy in one picture, he has some chest hair, etc..), and she wants to blow them off (something I have a problem with too, I feel we at least owe them explanations etc..) or they blow us off the same way and she feels totally rejected. The whole thing just doesn't feel healthy, but she doesn't want to call it quits (and we have had bad fights because I have basically said "if this is the way it's going to be, the frustration and tease isn't worth it to me, and I want to just stop all-together").

02-23-2008, 05:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
*JustAskJulie* Your Hostess Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 22,268 Location: Alabama Status: Female SLS Name:swingersboard Blog Entries: 59	Re: She can't make up her mind This isn't a matter of going at "HER PACE". Her pace is to look every day and her doing everything. She doesn't want you involved in this process for some reason and you need to sit down with her and find out what that is. You were posting at the same time I was.... You are right it's not healthy. There's a serious double standard going on her. It's not about you as a couple, it IS ABOUT HER, or at least she is making it that way. Why does she want women who are attractive but not more than her? Because she's insecure and worried that she might lose both of her playmates to each other. She has to maintain control because she is insecure in herself. But, she wants what she wants. Last edited by JustAskJulie : 02-23-2008 at 05:26 PM.

02-25-2008, 04:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
BigirlandHubby Active Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 21 Location: Orlando Status: Couple SLS Name:bigirlandhubby	Re: She can't make up her mind Hello everyone I am the "bi girl" in the duo "bi girl and hubby". I greatly appreciate all of your input. Hubby got on here in a genuinely sweet way to try to sort things out. I appreciate him looking for advice on a topic that we are still discovering and learning about. I wanted to clarify a few things. Hubby is comfortable with anything & everything... he has not a jealous bone in his body... so when he mentioned our "rules"... it may have sounded more strict than it is (at least in my eyes). I do feel that he has been overly eager in this process and when he sees people he finds attractive (especially if the woman is attractive & we both agree... but the guy is ho-hum) then he will, dare I say "push", in a loving but still eager way to "just meet"... but I have a problem meeting with the expectation of what we are all in this for (SEX) and then rejecting people when they are fun & fantastic... but I still don't find the guy attractive. I have an easier time being picky on line than to someones face. I loved the "IT'S MY PUSSY"... and that is my new motto. Hubby has never ever ever forced me to do anything.... he is the most amazing guy in the entire world... we have been together for 15+ years (high school sweethearts) and we are both in our early 30's. For me, I have self-esteem issues. The Tybee Swing... do you know me? LOL... you hit the nail on the head and I was reading out loud to Hubby after he showed me what he'd found in this board and some of the responses that he'd found... I read your response : Because she is much pickier and much more slow to move forward with people, perhaps she has felt pushed or rushed when you are flirting with women you meet, hunting, and planning. Or, perhaps when you're hunting, you're presenting people to her that 9 times in 10, she has no interest in. Maybe asking you to stop doing that, while she continues just looking (you only used the word "looking" in what she's doing online) is her pace. As she looks, maybe she's trying to figure things out for herself. Maybe she feels that there's only going to be 1 in 1,000 that will be of interest to her. Sometimes, men can get so anxious and so into the hunt, that it can overwhelm a woman who is slower, and make her feel like he is rushing ahead of her. (I don't know you, but this is just something to consider.) I think she's so extremely picky about men ("ewww, he had a little hair on his chest" or "he looked a little chunky in one of his pics"), is because she really doesn't want to be with men in swinging. There are some women on one end of the bi spectrum who are only interested in their own man and exploring with other women. Swinging with couples isn't really their thing. When you add the fact that most of the men she's been with haven't been able to keep an erection, that's just another nail in the coffin for her, with going forward with men. She definitely has self-esteem issues/insecurities with her competitiveness with other women. That is so true... and I agree that I am overly picky... but it goes back to the "it's my pussy" thing... and also... I don't want to be in a situation where I feel trumped... some porn star looking woman for my hubby to fuck... I know it isn't about comparison, but in my eyes I would be comparing and wishing I physically looked like her... like girls who look at magazines in an unhealthy way and want to be thin. I am not a "fat" girl... I am shapely and curvy and love my body (most of the time ) but it is like this for me... I want to bring a copy of myself into bed with us. The female we have been with (her husband allows her to play alone and we've done that one time) is great physically... I feel like we are physically very similar. I wanted to speak up on this board and get into the discussion because I am guessing that lots of you can help me and give me great advice out there. I have so many different "issues"... things that I have sorted through and as I am finding myself in this journey and realizing that I am hot and attractive, lots of my fears are going away (so, can you say "abandoned by my father at as a young child - physically abused by him when I was young - found the love of my life at an early age and worry that he'll be less attracted to me if he fucks some hot ass woman, my father left, why wouldn't my husband - mind you, my husband is NOTHING like my father but a father is supposed to stay with you through your life and be there for you... abandonment is a big issue with me - worrying about suffering in comparison... blah blah blah - parents can really mess with your head even after they are out of your life!) So, to start off somewhat slow, I can let you know that the "rules" we have set up regarding our "playing" don't have to really do with during playtime - we stay within arms reach of each other (past experience of some man taking me out of arms reach - our first experience ever was a big mistake and got us started off on the wrong foot - and while Hubby was fucking his wife, the guy was limper than a noodle and kissing me like we were 13 - EWWWW). So, we also try to wait to make sure that the "other guy" is going to be able to perform before Hubby "gives it to" the other woman. Ideal situation for me is to have just a single person in bed with us - male or female - those have been my favorite experiences and we have had both. It is more about us playing with ONE person rather than us going off with the person we are "expected" to swap with. I am not really into the guys either... the single male we were with was super attractive and a friend of Hubby's and that was a bit different... but for me it is about my bi-side... I have an amazing cock (and even better Hubby attached to it - LOL )... to play with whenever and wherever I want to... so that is not lacking in my life. We have an amazing sex life. But, usually to find a woman who is willing to play, I have to "take one for the team" with her hubby... and it isn't that I think he's gross because I won't go there if he is... but it is like I see Hubby playing with MY TOY... ... that being the woman... and Hubby. I want to be in that game... not off with some guy who I could give a shit about fucking. I know some have said we should not be swinging... and on some days, I could not agree more. But, I think back to the experiences of our MMF, and the one time we had our FFM... and there was 1 or 2 couple experiences in there that were "good"... and I think that it is FUN and can be FUN... but I always feel like it is taking up too much of our time... our conversations seem to revolve around that topic and I refuse to let swinging define us... we are so much more than swinging... we are high school sweethearts, we have 2 amazing kids, we are more in love everyday we are together, we are best friends, we know each other inside & out... but we are also opposites in a lot of ways and so this is something we have in common to "do" together... and so when Hubby brings it up, I tend to think "Oh, that is all he thinks about is fucking other women"... but in all honesty, I have gotten past that way of thinking quite a bit lately... but it tends to be a sore spot for me. I just want it to be like a hobby, something we do occasionally, not something that we argue about because Bi-girl isn't meeting the desired frequency or meeting up with anyone this month... we have to go at my pace or not at all... and if that means we stop for a while, then we do that so I can take a breath... but ultimately, I start up again. I loved the cheese analogy too... and I have to say that sometimes to hide the cheese really well... I eat it! LOL!!! It is GONE!!! Yes, it is a maze and unfair for him to have to "figure me out"... but if he can just be patient and let me drive and not side seat drive and piss me off, I know I can make this fun and I know we can do this together. I look forward to any & all advice you have regarding what you think and I am excited about being on this forum. Bi-girl (Hubby is at work)

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