She's scared I'll want someone else...

[allaboutsunfun]

First let me say that this will be the second go around here seeking advice. This time I'm only more aware of my situation and where I want to be in my life. My partner and I came up on this swinging thing not by chance, but by the grace of a couple of bottles of wine. She, not me shared the fact that she liked the thought of a guy watching us and possibly being involved. Our openess started from there. To make a long story short, as luck would have it we pretty much have the same fantasies (in a drunken state) and have ended up having a few really incredible encounters. Here comes the problem in all this, she's not open with me the way I would like her to be in a sober state of mind as well as pretty much selfish with the issue. She can talk about bringing a guy into the picture soberly, but that's about it. We have talked (sober), planned, and actually brought a guy into the pic 4 times now. It was awesome! I thoroughly enjoyed seeing her turned on like never before and pleasing her that way. The problem is, as much as she has expressed her will to bring a girl or a couple into the picture, she steers clear of it in a sober state of mind. Basically saying that she's scared I'll want someone else. How can I get her to open up and be secure in a sober state of mind? I know what's in her, I just can't get it out unless she's tanked.

[ShellyM]

Number one, if you can't talk about it sober thats an issue in itself in my opinion. If I cannot openly talk about it with you that means that there is something making me uncomfortable.

Number two, she wants her cake and eat it too.
Simple as that. She wants to get fucked by 2 men, get all of the attention, etc. etc. and etc. When its time to reciprocate that to you all of a sudden there are issues and she doesn't want to talk about it. Would I put up with that if I were a man? Hell no, but thats why God gave me a vagina lol...I'd be a notorious male. I don't know what to tell you. If it were me and things weren't fair neither of us would play in truth. This is JUST my own personal opinion...but if the other cannot be fair and allow me what I allow them than neither of us would enjoy; simple as that.
JMO

[socolais]

Keep talking!!!! The more you talk, the easier it gets. Maybe explore other communication options where she's more comfortable - sometimes it's easier to write the thoughts rather than say them. Follow her pace and perhaps help her pick out a couple where everyone can communicate and there's some sexual energy in all the desirable directions. Be careful about the alcohol and avoid regret.

[TheDeal]

Great advice from everyone. Let's face it; for some of us, this $hit can be scary. There are some things a little alcohol can help by relaxing you, but getting stone cold drunk doesn't help anything. I would assume you are speaking of the latter.

As all have said so far, communication is the key. Really, if it were not for religious morality and other cultural issues; I would think ALL couples seeking marriage should have to go through a year of the LS! The amount you learn about yourself, your SO, and your relationship is worth more than any of the hot steamy sex! Wow, did I just say that? Jeez, and I'm a guy.

[ShellyM]

The only thing I suggest is to keep things fair. I am so tired honestly of catering to the other wives, this is the main reason why we rarely play anymore; you can't be too thin or too pretty or God forbid she will be threatened. So you almost feel ashamed for being pretty or thin and downplay yourself so as to not threaten her fragile female ego. Sorry to rant but I'm so sick of the wive's bullshit that I could play with single males only and it would not bother me a bit. However, Jay and I insist on keeping this fair; so we will continue to look for a couple that is a combination of good looking, intelligent and actually wants to be here. I apologize if I offend but I'm just frustrated as shit.

[ShellyM]

Again everyone, please forgive me for being so blunt. I mean no offense. However, we are here to be real and I'm not one to not be real lol.

[lurkergirl]

Shelly, I understand and empathize with your feelings. God knows, there's nothing you can do to convince another woman that her man is not that important to you once she's got it stuck in her head. Try not to let the frustration overwhelm you, and remember not to take it personally, they can't help their insecurities any more than you can help being thin and pretty.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

...she wants her cake and eat it too.
Simple as that. She wants to get fucked by 2 men, get all of the attention, etc. etc. and etc. When its time to reciprocate that to you all of a sudden there are issues and she doesn't want to talk about it. Would I put up with that if I were a man? Hell no...

I didn't get this impression at all.

I think it can be very natural for a woman to comfortably fantasize about having sex with another man while she is having sex with her SO, yet feel uncomfortable or embarrassed discussing her fantasy when she isn't as "conversationally relaxed" as she is after a few drinks.

It is much easier for a woman who is considering alternative sexual explorations to start fantasizing where she is most comfortable doing so. In your girlfriend's case, it is with a man watching you two or joining you in a threesome.

If having cocktails is a regular part of your life, and you find she tends to open up more about everything in life only when she's had a drink, then it may simply be her nature to only share her thoughts about things after a drink.

If drinking isn't done too often, and you have sex without drinking, I'd suggest finding a time after some great sex - when neither of you have had a drink - and you could cuddle afterwards and say that the whole time you were enjoying her you imaged her fantasy happening, that a guy was watching you both and getting so turned on by her. Maybe at that moment, when she's feeling great and confident after sex, and sober, she might open up.

Good luck!

LM

[havefuninsun]

I think she's just scared. Plain and simple.

And she might be nervous or ashamed that she feels jealous. Jealousy is a real feeling; it might bother her and embarrass her to admit to you that the thought of you with another woman makes her jealous. Some see Jealousy as being weak; she may not want to be weak where you're concerned.

Before we started, I felt like I had it under control, but it wasn't until the moment of truth I knew for sure I didn't feel jealous.

You guys are doing a good job of talking -- as everyone has said, keep it up! Maybe even bring up the jealousy card (in a positive way, of course) and see if you can't get her talking more about her feelings.

Talking about your feelings is NOT an easy thing ...

[lovinher]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

It is much easier for a woman who is considering alternative sexual explorations to start fantasizing where she is most comfortable doing so. In your girlfriend's case, it is with a man watching you two or joining you in a threesome.

The OP stated that they have had a MFM 4 times now. So, she does want her cake and eat it too.

I think if the OP wouldn't let his wife have another man, but it was ok for him to have another woman the responses might be a little different. She is basically saying she wants other men but don't trust you with another woman.

Maybe if you stop all play until she sees your side of it she might change her mind seeing that she likes MFM so much.

[ownerspet]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

if you can't talk about it sober thats an issue in itself in my opinion. JMO

I agree there are definitly issues that she is worried about talking with you on.

Originally Posted by ShellyM

Number two, she wants her cake and eat it too.
JMO

I agree with ShellyM on this also, and it is most likely the reason she is delaying talking about why she doesn't want a woman involved. I would tell her that swinging or sex outside the relationship is offlimits until you talk about the issues. It seems extreme, but right now she may think that she can just duck the issue indefinitly and and she's hunky dorey while you're totally confused.... However if she cares about you, she will open up

Thats my 2cts.. now take a stand....

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by allaboutsunfun

To make a long story short, as luck would have it we pretty much have the same fantasies (in a drunken state) and have ended up having a few really incredible encounters.

lovinher ~

When I read the OP I was under the impression that the "encounters" he was speaking of were sex just with the two of them where they fantasized about another man being involved. I didn't think including others in their sex had even occured yet. But after reading your post I decided to check on the OPs pervious posts and discoved his thread from a year ago where he clearly states that they have been inviting men to play with them. They are, it appears, long past the fantasy side of MFM. Learning this does change my reply, especially after reading the OPs other posts.

I don't think his girlfriend is resisting including women or couples in play because she wants to intentionally be unfair or hurtful to her boyfriend. However, there is no doubt that with this long history, she is so insecure and jealous by nature that I don't think she is likely to change anytime soon, maybe never.

I would not advise the OP to continue allowing males to join them. By doing so he only contributes to the problem, making things worse, because this only teaches her that she doesn't have to change.

The play situation they have both consented to isn't working for the benefit of their relationship. I think the OP new this a year ago and I'm surprised he is still in this situation.

LM

[LOL_OMG]

Well I guess I'm going to disagree with just about everybody lol. Without both sides of the issue here it's hard to get the whole picture. I think you have a few issues and I would recommend that you encourage her to at least read the boards here.

1. She may have underlying issues that causes her to not only drink but to be less than open when sober. Who knows what she's been through in the past that she hasn't dealt with....not me for sure. Maybe she's been left for someone else in the past, maybe her family brought her up to think being open and honest (especially about sex) is taboo...who knows.

2. I don't buy the "she wants her cake and eat it too" theory. Apparently you both decided to have some MFMs and you both enjoyed it. We know couples that MFMs are all they do. Who says you have to have full swap couples only? It doesn't sound like you were disappointed, if you don't want to do MFMs anymore then by all means put an end to them....but I would not recommend persuing something that your partner isn't comfortable with.

Mrs

[lost_j1]

After reading most of the crap that people put out here I have to shake my head.. It's a 50/50 thing here as a couple. The first thing is that if they don't really talk about it until they are drinking that is a big problem. Okay I give them props. for taking the first step into swinging. But, after 4 MFM's there should be a little thing like goddam sharing. It's all good if she is getting all the cock she wants. Then when he asks for a variety she shuts down and plays like dumb. Listen to some of these politically correct asses out here. Talk, talk, talk, talk, such asses listen to what the man is saying. SHE only really talks when she is drinking. Then when the subject of FMF comes up she shy's away. FUCK that there would be no more MFM's until we had a FMF... That shit would be cut off real quick. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander... How many of these women say, well I am not Bi. So what would I do in FMF?? Well what the fuck does your man do??? Or do I assume he is Bi as well???? If not then he has to share you, then what is the problem of you sharing him???? Simple all about me factor. I am not comfortable with my man fucking another woman.. But, I want cock lined up around the corner taking numbers to fuck me.. Simple all about me and I don't want to share. Dude cut the MFM's off until she can learn to share. If she is drinking then DO NOT TALK about sexual encouters with her. Just change the subject unitl she sobers up. Let's face it if you can not do this Lifestyle SOBER then don't do it at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do we drink yep, but we take turns driving so last night I drank while Shelly drank water. The next time I will drive while she drinks. SO that means one of use plays sober. Scary thought to some I guess. Swinging, Lifestyle, any other words you want to call it comes from the old saying wife swapping... Share and share a like or don't do it.............


JAY!!!

[Edison Carter]

Ed here-- We have found that few things discussed under the influence of alcohol have merit or meaning.