She is in a shell and will not come out without a couple of drinks...

[ericandkara]

well this is my first post here so i would like to say hi first of all kara and i are a 25 yr old couple in tx. well now to what i need advice on. a little back ground we have been exploring lifestyle clubs and the lifestyle we are not sure where it will go for us yet but we are happy where it has gone so far when she has had a couple of drinks she is the best partner in bed i have ever had it is great. she lets loose and i really cant even tell u how good she is in bed after drinking. where i want to help her is when she hasnt been drinking she holds back and doesnt let her self enjoy the sex. i really dont know if i am doing a good job explaining it but for example after a couple of drinks she asks me to do things to her or talk to her dirty but i would like to spice up our sober sex life and if i sent her a dirty text during the day asked her "what are you wearing" and try to have fore play long before i even get home she will not have anything to do with it and will get offended to some degree. it is like she is in a shell and will not come out with out a couple of drinks. i am open to do what ever it takes to find out how to get her to open up and let loose, i guess for lack of a better term what gets her rocks off or her blood pumping. i want to see that fire in her eyes. I want to help her find her self sexually. Has any one had any experince with this type of thing any advice would be nice. and if you have any questions please ask

[havefuninsun]

Well -- why don't you talk about it while you're not having sex ... like, you can say, "baby -- last night was just awesome. It really turns me on when you talk to me that way." If she acts shy or embarrassed, put your arm around her and say, "please don't be ashamed/embarrassed/shy ... I'm telling you ... girl, you rock my world."

Let her know it's OK to talk like that ... with your words, not other body parts -- sometimes people just need it all spelled out for them ...

have fun!!!

[lovinher]

How about showing her this post?

[ericandkara]

we have talked about it i have told her everything in the post. I want to know if there is anything i can do to help her. i dont know what is causing this if it is just that she cant seperate love and sex or something elese she doesnt seem to have any desires sexually so can i help her find what ever it is that will light her fire? i just dont know.

[fun4Ds]

im gonna go out on a limb here, maby im wrong. but from the way i read this, your wanting her to change into what YOU want.

hey, im a guy and it looks like she is trying to give you what ya want. (that takes alot from a women). just because she can open up (some) with a few drinks dosent mean that she is going to blossom into the sex flower that your wanting and hoping for.

honestly this is some of the diffrences between men like you and i and...women

hang in there this is something that she will sort out in her own way,in her own time.

ya know me and mrs.fun have been together for over 30 yrs. sometimes just now we touch base with feelings from long ago. slow down and listen, let things have their time.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by ericandkara

where i want to help her is when she hasnt been drinking she holds back and doesnt let her self enjoy the sex.

if i sent her a dirty text during the day asked her "what are you wearing" and try to have fore play long before i even get home she will not have anything to do with it and will get offended to some degree.

Hi Eric, welcome to the board.

How was she raised? Religious home? Uptight mom & dad as far as affection and sex? That's very often the culprit. For some women, it's some kind of past abuse issue that keeps them from enjoying sex without being in an altered state.

I think it's bordering on dangerous for her to only be able to be free of that baggage when she's drinking. Dangerous, because it's only through altering herself with chemicals that she can be free and enjoy herself. I agree with you that the goal should be for her to be able to be open with you when she's 100% sober. She shouldn't need alcohol or anything else to accomplish that. She should be able to talk to you about sex, anticipate sex, and enjoy sex.

It could take years for her to get to a place where she can let go of the baggage that's holding her back. Don't stop trying to open up the communication with her. Have you ever asked her why she clams up or shuts down when you're just talking about "normal" sexual/couple things with her, like verbal foreplay during the day? Try to figure out what's going on. Does she think that "good girls don't like sex"? Is she afraid of it (past trauma)? It seems very unusual to me that a woman like this can start exploring the Lifestyle, when she can't even get comfortable flirting and "acting like she wants it" with her own husband.

Do you think maybe she's trying to cure herself by getting drunk and diving headfirst into swinging? If so, those aren't the cures. She has to learn how to communicate.

Try sitting down and having a real talk with her about this. Tell her how beautiful and sexy she is to you, and how much it will mean to you for her to be able to talk sexy with you, flirt with you, to want you and let you know just how much. Keep telling her how normal and natural it is for couples to talk and be this way with each other. Don't stop trying. I think it would be a great idea for her to go to counseling to learn how to deal with her sexual issues and get off her chest whatever's holding her back. This could work into couples counseling. I think this could have a big impact on her. It would be a professional giving her "permission" to be sexy with you, for you, and most importantly for herself.

Again, I'd really focus on what she needs to get past this issue and put the Lifestyle on the back burner for now. If she has to get drinks in her to loosen up to be able to participate with swinging, that's considered "drama" that a lot of couples don't want to deal with. It could get complicated and cause more trouble than good if she tries to do too much, too soon, and has to be under the influence to do it.

hugs and best wishes to you!!!

[WonderWhat]

Two things: don't rush things, keep an eye on her drinking.

She obviously either has had some bad experiences or just a plain straitlaced upbringing. This will not change overnight, nor even in a few months. She has to go at it at her own pace; though you do have to give some playful, loving encouragement.

She has to feel self-confident before she will let those walls go down. Show her that letting loose is OK. Havefuninsun's "you rock my world" advice is great; just don't expect her to answer, she'll start advancing in that direction when she simply responds with a small smile.

[fun4Ds]

i had to post back again after giving this some more thought and talking with mrs.fun about this.

we all gave our two cents, personally iv never posted with out mrs.fun either viewing or following a thread. and some advice was to have eric let kara see his post.

now im gonna see this as if were me having a conversation with mrs.fun when she gets home from work, goes like this

honey, im not happy... as you know we have been to some clubs and you have gone along so far, but you are not talking to me the way i want, you havent opend up about your feelings at the table without a couple drinks... iv posted our problem on the swingersboard for all the swingers to see... and we feel you have a drinking problem, we are gonna get to the bottom of your problems from your tormented childhood. and from now on you wont be allowed to have a couple drinks at the club untill you start giving me some erotic text messages.... ill show ya the swingersboard site and you will see your problems...

am i seeing this wrong?.. he never said anything about a drinking problem. i personally dont drink and swing but mrs.fun likes to have a (few) to losen up a little and so do alot of other women/men at the clubs we attend.

yes im the subject bringer upper at the table most of the time and mrs.fun is alot more reserved about things.. made me a better listener.

as far as counseling, i didnt see any sighns of frustration, anger, sleepless nights,or effects at work... unless it would be the text message.

i know mrs.fun has alot of asshole clients to deal with or even the boss at times, i might not get any responce from a message from her if its just a bad day. we dont even have alot of time to call each other at work for important things.

maby im seeing this wrong but i couldnt help posting again thinking, my god what if she does see this thread . and its about her.

eric, i hope you can see how i feel without takin it the wrong way. this isnt about attacking you in any way or anyone els on the board. we hope you can actually let kara see this thread and listen to her views on this.

[WonderWhat]

Hmmmm.... let me see if I can phrase what I'm thinking correctly:

She doesn't have a problem with the amount of alcohol. She has a problem with accepting who she is and what she likes when her inhibitions are dialed down by the alcohol. That can turn into an alcohol problem because it's very tempting to be who you want to be under the effects of a few drinks, then blaming the drinks when the inhibitions return with the hangover, and it can turn into a cyclical problem.

Been there, done that. Seen others do it.

Alcohol is not a problem when your desires and self-image are "wholly integrated" (my phrase), meaning that you like who you are whether you've got a few drinks on or not.

WW

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

am i seeing this wrong?.. he never said anything about a drinking problem. i personally dont drink and swing but mrs.fun likes to have a (few) to losen up a little and so do alot of other women/men at the clubs we attend.

I often have a drink or two when we're at the clubs, too. But, I can swing just as well (and probably better) completely sober. I don't need the alcohol to be comfortable sexually with my husband, or with the people we choose to swing with.

If I needed to be drinking in order to even have a sexy conversation with my own husband, or needed it in order to enjoy any sort of sexual activity, and couldn't deal with sexy talk or sex without alcohol, I would say that I have a BIG problem, and that problem involves relying on alcohol to deal with things that I'm not facing.

[fun4Ds]

eric, mrs.fun and i talked about your post last night and we had to think back.. it felt like waaaayyy back for us.

but ya know we cant say that we knew everything about each other sexualy then at your age.as for me i love a little mystery in a woman .

we cant hardly speak for kara we dont know (her) and you are the one that posted so we are going to stay with how you feel.. im a guy so ill keep this to guy talk .

mrs.fun read your post and her feelings were "maby kara is just shy" i can vouch that mrs.fun has no alcahol problems but she has always been able to have just a few drinks and have fun, open up a little... she just has a shy personality.

this is where it takes communication on your part. you need to sit down and tell her that some of these things are important to you without making her feel pressured.

dont ever try to analize your wife thats just wrong. were guys and we probably would miss that anyhow. the thing is,take time listen to her... pay close attention and in time you will understand how she feels. and hopefully she will give you more of her mind... then you will see that fire in her eyes.

about the text message. well mrs fun isnt all that hot about texts or chats she likes things more in a personal level. maby try spending some time shopping for a card that says something she would love to hear from you not just a quickie... im sorry or im horny what are you wearing... but rather something more sensual sometimes it means more that you took the time to say .... im thinking about you ,i care.

how about some flowers with a personal card that says, i cant wait to see what your wearing, im hopeing wet panties.

hang in there eric, life together is all about learning as ya go.. we hope to hear some from kara.

[2inthemood]

just as experiment: ever tried to start same settings of your "drinking nights" same attitude and intentions and get her "drunk" with supposed to be alcoholic beverages but that in reality have no alcohool in it (and she doesnt know)? A sort of placebo thing to see if its something that clicks or not. AND NO ITS NOT FOR YOU TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT IF IT HAPPENS, just tell her that there was no alcohol, and go on with a romantic night: massages etc, dont think about sex. Sometimes its the idea of being drunk whats needed rather than being actually drunk.

Experiments aside, talk talk talk, for sure she knows, or she can find in herself, the deep reasons for that. Try to ease her into things, get books about sex (joy of sex is old but still good, books about fantasies like the ones written by Nancy Friday: my secret garden and the others that followed). In short get her interested and get her to talk.
Suggestion 2: get a diary, it goes on her bedtable when you write something in it and on your bedtable when she writes something on it (or find your own system but not one that will send the diary in a corner and be forgotten) in there you write the feelings, sensations, questions, fantasies etc, dont push it or go overboard let her keep her pace, maybe it could be easier for her to get used to her "other side" and a way to tell you things.
BTW its a fun game to play too.

The 3rd would be taping what happens when she is drunk and then see that with her when sober, but that could go ok or really bad so i wouldnt say its a really safe solution, up to you on that.

[socolais]

Eric, welcome.

I don't have any advise for you other than it sounds very much like a communication issue with perhaps some self-image sprinkles on top. I like the idea of the bedside diary, it's a good communication tool - some folks have an easier time writing their thoughts when they can take their time and carefully phrase them. We all know how easy it is to say the wrong thing and regret it before the echo dies. Handwritten notes have a way of saying things our mouthes cant. We did something similar - we used dry-erase markers on the bathroom mirror to leave sexy romantic thoughts to each other. It's WAY COOL!!! There's no permanent record so it's easier to be "in the moment" and know that your words won't come back to bite ya later.