The Boss and his Wife

[BearWithMe]

I am a gay male, 39, and have worked with this man for 11 years now. I worked indirectly for him through my supervisor for about five years, and then I moved to another department where I continued to provide technical services to him and his group. Over the years, we’ve bonded as close working colleagues and have shared some personal thoughts together over casual lunches. I now work directly for him (since November) in a new role we created together. I have always found him to be quite attractive and always had a little crush on him, but have kept my relationship with him strictly professional.

Since we have been working closer together, I’ve been picking up on things that I’m not sure if he’s flirting or if I’m simply misinterpreting everything due to my growing crush. We’ve had full conversations in the washroom while each of us does our thing. I know this is not unusual, but is part of a growing list. If I hand him something that’s been in my pocket, such as a key or change, he tends to fondle whatever I give him. Often, if either of us offer to get the other a coffee, I’ll dig in to my pocket and pull out a handful of change and he’ll hold my hand and dig out the appropriate change he needs. Same with those Listerine strip things. His is forever staring at my crotch and has caught me staring at his too. I know that he doesn’t wear underwear (let’s just say I know he’s circumcised and it’s sometimes flopping around as he walks down the hall). He also tugs and pokes and adjusts himself in front of me (and others) and again, stares at my crotch while doing it. When I need to whisper something to him (during a meeting) he leans in real close, to the point where my lips are touching his ear. He has a wicked grin/smirk and winks a lot (haven't noticed if he does it with others). Neither he nor his wife wears wedding bands. He has pictures of himself and their dogs all over his office, but none of his wife. He has a picture of a wolf (he's into wolves and dogs) which I brought back from a recent trip displayed proudly on his desk. When engaged in conversation, our eyes are locked in to a very comforting gaze and we fumble for words (he fumbles more than I), but we'll talk about absolutely nothing in particular just for the sake of conversation or enjoying each others company. He’s as butch as they come, a real man’s man, but I’ve also seen a much softer side of him too. Note, he’ll only be my boss for two more years before he retires at 53, and I would very much like to continue an on-going friendship.

I was invited up to their house a few weeks ago, just to kick back and enjoy a few drinks and hang out. I got mixed messages from the wife, saying “we’re very private people, we don’t like people, we don’t like people at our house, especially not anyone from work” and then “have another drink, stay for dinner, stay the night if you like”. They have a customized king-sized bed (formerly king waterbed) in an open-concept home. She followed me and him around like a lost puppy. At one point, he pulled me aside and we went into the garage where we sat in his car and listened to a tune while he discussed something personal with me. She came out of nowhere, stuck her head in the car and said “what are you guys doing?!?!?” He said “just discussing … with him” and she stormed off in a huff. After dinner, we were in my car presetting some radio stations on the new stereo I just had installed. I was in the driver seat and my friend/boss in the passenger seat. She came over to my side of the car which had the door open, leaned down and placed her hand on my upper-inner thigh and asked “how’s it going?” I tried not to pay any attention to it and soon left as it was getting dark and didn’t want to impose on them.

I sent them a thank you Email the next day, and she replied saying that she hopes she didn’t offend me in any way with her behavior and that she really had too much wine.

Work has been busy, and both the boss and I have not seen each other much due to meetings, projects, vacation time, etc. but I continue to let them know how much I enjoy their company and would like to visit them again.

Am I reading them correctly? Are they swingers, and looking for another man to do her or join them? She’s a bit of a ditz, but my friend/boss is incredibly intelligent. I know he knows that I’m gay, but we have never discussed it.

Are there any tell-tale signs of swingers? Are there any questions or comments I can make to fish it out of them?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[SouthBond]

They are probably just two married people that have become bored and considering finding something new. Work relationships are risky. As long as everyone likes each other, everything is fine. If things go wrong, you might have career ending problems. The boss might be looking for a fun fling for himself, for his wife or for both of them. It seems that you got an invitation. What do you want to do? Can you handle dealing with the woman?

[JonnyQuest]

We in Texas have a saying: A dog never craps in his own backyard. Thus, playing around at work is BAD. ALWAYS. The risk is just too high. Of course...there are exceptions to every rule, but why risk not being the exception. Keep them at arms length and stay employed.

[beachzen]

Originally Posted by JonnyQuest

We in Texas have a saying: A dog never craps in his own backyard. Thus, playing around at work is BAD. ALWAYS. The risk is just too high. Of course...there are exceptions to every rule, but why risk not being the exception. Keep them at arms length and stay employed.

Completely agree with JonnyQuest, although I'm not sure I could be as eloquent Fooling around with someone you work with, especially in a boss/employee situation, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Stay friends, stay employed, stay out of the bedroom.

[BearWithMe]

While my friend/boss is a bit rough around the edges, he likes Harley bikes, modified pick-up trucks, racing (of any kind) and old rock, sometimes I think the wife is just as butch (and looks like a cross between a dirtbag/dyke). I've never really been with a woman, but she's definitely not one I would want to try to be with.

Ultimately, I do want to be friends. That is the most important thing to me... but I'm just so damn curious! And would have a go at it with HIM if the right opportunity presented itself (maybe he's thinking the same thing?). No worries about work, I think we've got a good understanding of each other and have dealt with personal situations in the past and I'm confident that our personal lives do not interfere with our professional lives.

[beachzen]

Originally Posted by BearWithMe

... I'm confident that our personal lives do not interfere with our professional lives.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that...

Seriously though, it sounds like a bad situation all around. I suspect that if you did get together with him, his wife wouldn't be aware of it, and that's yet another risk.

Obviously no one can tell you what to do. All we can do is help you approach the situation with your eyes open and fully aware of the risks. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

[BearWithMe]

I'm quite willing to have an open discussion with them both and do not want him to cheat on his wife with me. But if she's accepting of it or willing to sit in a far corner and watch, that's fine with me

But is there anything I can do just to fish for information, signs/signals I should know about or something I can bring up in a conversation to see where it goes?

[ShellyM]

Screwing your boss and/or his wife is
BAD MOJO.
I'm telling you, its just bad hoojoo.
Shelly

[BearWithMe]

In my confusion, maybe I’m not conveying my message properly. I see him, and he sees me, as friends before our working relationship. We’ve built an enormous amount of respect for one another and I have a great deal of admiration for this guy. We both lost our brothers, six month apart, and have bonded almost as if we are brothers. I do love him dearly as a friend and as one of the most genuine people I know. I do care for him and know that he cares for me.

I know him, but I do not know “him and his wife” or “his wife” very well at all (yet).

As great as he is as a boss, he’s an even better friend. We’re building this friendship and it’s getting complicated. He’s only my boss for another two years before he leaves (lucky bastard) but I hope to remain close for a very long time.

He (they) live by the philosophy of “live and let live” and are themselves very private people. They are “tolerable” of gays at work, but that’s not because of political correctness, as I do know they have gay friends outside of work.

There are so many more gestures that I’m now assuming are hints or suggestive actions, such as tapping his feet and/or pumping his leg(s) up and down like a dog in heat, biting and/or caressing his lips in front of me… I just want to know from a Swingers perspective if these are signals or if I’m reading way too much in to it. As far as I’m concerned, his wife did make a move and I didn’t pursue the opportunity.

As I said in an earlier post, the most important thing to me is that we continue to build our friendship… but I am however extremely curious to know how to understand their situation as well as ours.

Giving further consideration to SouthBond’s reply… I don’t know her, but perhaps if I do get to know and appreciate her better… who knows?

[fun4Ds]

personaly i probably shouldnt be giving advice on this but ya are askin swingers opinions so here is mine.

you sound correct that things are flirty at work, sounds like a blind person could see that, gay or not. wich means that your flitin with disaster at work because other people at work see it also.ya need to realize a friend at work today could always be an enemy tommorow(always a reality) unless your work place is some happy little world where everybody loves everybody(very doubtfull) it doesnt sound like your boss is the owner, president (the big cahoona) so your both in jeopardy at work him being the (supervisor) and you being the (subordanate) means they would probably repramend him and fire you. most companies have strict policies when it comes to work relationships let alone supevisor/subordanate situations and it sounds like you are getting favoritizim. if you dont see it others will (i see shark attack)

usally is quite simple and goes like this, we have a business to run, we have a situation that is becoming a problem, end the problem (you) cover our asses and carry on in a business manner.

now you need to see that an affair at work with a married person means that that could not go your way either, the wife has shown that she could get into a (huff) ever seen what a married women can do to the work place and not even be there? just tryin to be honest here but she could do more damage to both of you than ya might think.

you show no RESPECT what so ever to the wife in any way as a swinger let alone a gay man.

"lets see" oh what did ya call her? a ditz? a dirtbag/dyke? she is stupid and your intellegent? man do you look a little less than intelligent to me now. you would have pissed off the gay people( i know) now.

how about working on your personality,(open your eyes) your headed for trouble, and then consider the lifestyle.

your jepordizing your job,his job, (HER relationship and RESPECT) and how do you see yourself in this?

[BearWithMe]

She works there too. He/they got a lot of grief years ago because she worked for him, so she now works in a different department. As I’ve said, as a boss he’s great! There is no favoritism towards me or anyone else. He’s extremely fair and sometimes I feel left out of things that I should be involved in. We’re both extremely busy and honestly, I don’t think that we see each other enough to be in sync at work and get the job done. There are a lot of political games at there, and we’re watching each others’ backs as well as our close colleagues.

I just don’t think that she’s very effeminate in any way and maybe ditz is a bit strong (that’s a word many others use when referring to her) but as mentioned, I don’t know her very well. She’s perky, fun and outgoing, fragile and has made some “simple” comments or questions during conversation.

I’m not looking for an affair at work. Even outside of the office, at their home, may be entirely inappropriate, but I’m not the one making advances. I am however extremely curious to know more about them, their lifestyle and if they are interested in me… even if it never happens. I would never, and I know he certainly would never, do anything without consent. He may not do anything without her participation. I know he knows I’m gay, but he may also think that I may be Bi or able to engage in this type of threesome.

I see the danger signs, I understand everyone's warnings and I'm not trying to justify my feelings or our relationship. He is a friend, not a casual buddy, and I would like to get to know him/them better.

[fun4Ds]

sounds like ya need to get this out of the grey area to me, and definatly need to keep it out of the work place, why dont ya have them over or out to dinner and put the cards on the table?, you have questions, make a list and ask them straight up. i still feel that you need to show his wife all the respect in the world and definatly get on a page with her. she is the only one that has the rite to give approval or disapproval of anything going on. we swing, the thing is... couples or singles everyone, EVERYONE needs to be on the same page. not that your not sencitive to a womens feelings but lets face it, he is approaching retirement she is his partner. you are the outsider, she can say something is ok today and veto you out tommorrow at her free will.playing games and fishing around has its limits. you need to realize you have two people to make happy.

he taps his legs? i do that
whispers in your ear? well ya did say there are political issues and ya have to watch your back. mabe he just wants to make shure no one hears.

adjusts his dick, well i do that also but its just cause i dont like my dick stuck to my bag i prefer it in the upper posisition.

whats preventing you from asking about these matters in the privacy of a diffrent setting like dinner?

[BearWithMe]

I live downtown near work and they live out of the city. I'm in a small apartment which isn't very accommodating to dinner guests. Anyway, they're not the type of folks to hang around downtown after work and prefer to get home to the serenity their place.

I've done lunch with him and his wife, and a bunch of other folks from work, a couple of times. We always sit together and the wife with her friends. She and her group typically get back to work right away while "the boss" and I stick around for another beer. I've gone to lunch just with him a number of times, but not since my visit to their place. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we'll have to meet over lunch (somewhat still on the clock) or on the weekend at their place, a golf outing or a getaway somewhere. They wouldn't think of coming downtown on the weekend!

A couple of times when the two of us have gone to lunch, I've said "can I ask you a personal question?" and he gulps, hesitates and says "sure...". To me, he gets all flushed and relieved when it turns out to be something simple (not sexual).

Should I maybe start it off with a story about a recent threesome I was involved in (without specifying gender)? Or is that too risky because we haven't openly discussed my sexuality with him/them? That too could put him in a compromising situation at work if he knows for a fact directly from me.

[blboise]

You keep saying (or trying to convince yourself) you have this great friendship, that it wouldn't effect things at work, you're on the same wave length, ... and you've come to a swingers board for advice. I'm surprised no one has brought up what I call the swinger's mantra " Communication, communication, communication...". But it seems that the "great relationship/friendship" is lacking this.

Folks here have told you multiple times that playing with folks at work is bad mojo. You don't seem to want to hear it. SO -- Just say " Hey boss, I'm gay, I want to screw you. How about it? and how's your wife feel about that?"

Take the answer, take the chances, cause you're so infatuated with all this you're just wasting your time asking all these questions. In my opinion you're on the way to self destruction -- buy hey, you don't want to hear that. So full speed ahead!

Good luck.

[avid]

I just love it when someone sums it up just like that.