When they think "NO" means "Just push harder"

[knottyboi]

I'm having a bad emotional reaction to a terrible swinging experience I had several days ago and I need some advice on how to get over it. I apologize for the long post...

I had gone to a hotel party (my first one) and I was having a blast. I knew several people there, everyone was super friendly, it was going great. I was invited back to the hotel room of a couple I knew, along with several other couples and two single guys. I'm married but I play as a single female since my partner doesn't play. So, I'd say there were eleven of us.

All of us invited were invited because of the expectation that we were all a little freaky, we all liked each other, and there wouldn't be any problems mixin'n'matchin'. And it's true, I liked everyone there, though I didn't know the two single men. So I was fine with having fun with all parties, especially as I had already swung with a few of them.

Now, problems for me developed when, as soon as the clothes came off, the couples started swapping, leaving me out cold with the two men I didn't know. They seemed fine, but they quickly became EXTREMELY pushy. There was no friendly foreplay, or asking me what I like, or anything like that. It was like they had paid an entrance fee and, dammit, they were going to get some no matter what.

I was a little drunk, so I wasn't as forceful as I normally would be, but I *did* say NO several times, as well as saying, "I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable with this, I don't want to, no thanks." But it was like every time I turned around, a dick was in my face. I got up and went to the bathroom just to get some breathing space, and as soon as I came out, one of them tried to convince me to fuck him against the bathroom door. I said, no, and walked away.

I finally went over to the bed and squished in with two of the couples, who were more than happy for me to do so. I bent over and started going down on one man, when all of a sudden, I felt a dick trying to enter me. WHAT??

I whipped around to see the other single guy nonchalantly trying to fuck me, with NO condom on (despite my earlier stating that I don't fuck without them), and he acted like I was ridiculous when I became furious. I had very clearly told him I wasn't interested three times before that.

At that point, everyone else realized the problems I was having, and the two single guys were made to leave, and my night significantly improved. But I can't get it out of my mind and it's making me sick to my stomach. I feel like I was almost raped and that pisses me off to no end. I gave this man no suggestion that I wanted to do it with him, I was very clear in saying no, and he was going to do it anyway.

What's worse is that I am white-looking and the two men were black. Apparently (out of my hearing) they were bitching that I wouldn't fuck them because they were black, and this was insane because this group of people was very evenly divided between black people and white people, and I had had sex with two of those other black people on a previous occasion. I am NOT racist, and the color of your skin is pretty much on the bottom of my list of preferences that I have.

I'm so tired of the view that as a single young bisexual woman, I've got it made. When, in fact, it's extremely stressful, and I get so much pressure, and so many couples and single men act like it's almost an obligation for me to do it with them if many other people are already matched up. It's like I'm an object. The 'unicorn' syndrome sucks real bad for me, since it doesn't matter who I am as a person, I'm just a walking bisexual vagina here to fulfill fantasies. ARGH!

I'm sorry for the hatefulness of this, I just can't get over that night and I need help on how to get over it. For those that have had this sort of thing happen to them, how do you cope? I obviously can't explain it to vanillas, since they would simply say that I shouldn't have been doing that sort of thing in the first place.

[SouthBond]

You are obviously extremely stressed. You need a vacation from the swinging game. In fact you may need to take a totally new direction.

[Cpl2share]

We disagree with southbound, but we are all entitled to our opinions. We feell for you. It is unfortunate that this happened to you, but you do know that not all swinging ends up this way. Mrs. Cpl has been treated in a very similar manner and she is NOT a unicorn. It does happen that some men are just pigs (we have run into two women who acted the same way toward both of us though) and should be excluded from breathing air, but that isn't allowed. Just like with everything else about swinging, sometimes you get the peach and sometimes you get the pit. You did right and should continue to do what you enjoy.

[knottyboi]

Southbound, I'd hate to have this keep me from swinging, that's why I wanted to get advice on how to get past it. I really enjoy swinging and have had all positive experiences up until now, and I go to the club about every other week. I don't really want to take a vacation, I want to learn how to not let this affect my future swinging experiences.

Cpl2share - you're right. I should be grateful that for the past six months all I've had is the peach! Maybe that's why this is affecting me so strongly. Up until now, it's all been happy and rainbows and sparkles.

[tribbles]

For me to get past things, I have to understand what it is that bothers me.

Could it be that if you were more intoxicated, they might have gotten away with doing more? It is that you didn't assert yourself and tell the couples what was going on right away?

I don't see you as having been in danger of being raped...other than by you not stopping if you had been too drunk to catch them at the entry point. All you ever had to do was make enough of a scene to get help from others in the room. You made the choice to not get that help right away. You did learn that as soon as others knew there was a problem, they jumped in and helped you. Next time, speak up faster!

All of us invited were invited because of the expectation that we were all a little freaky, we all liked each other, and there wouldn't be any problems mixin'n'matchin'.

I gave this man no suggestion that I wanted to do it with him

I've been in wild one room/one bed everyone ok with touching and licking. No one stops to ask "what do you like?" right away, and no one stops to even ask "may I touch you?"...we are all in one room, all in a go for it attitude and if someone does something I don't want, I say "stop, please don't". If someone didn't listen then, I'd get loud so others would get them away from me.

It's possible, that these men have been in that kinda situation before and therefore, thought they didn't need to do more than offer up a stiff penis. Then it's not that they are jerks but that they misread the way the party was going. I have a tendency to ask or at least look for permission when I go to touch someone but we have been in orgies where a female we don't know, jumps on my hubby's stiffy and starts riding it. We don't know her name, she didn't put a condom on him...he was hard and she wanted to ride. We were shocked at first but learned, if we let ourselves go to a group party like that, that's part of what we are accepting. Yes, there was a time he lifted a lady off. Now we know when we are with that kinda group. If we don't wanna play, we don't go in the room with them.

(Yeah, we have played with a wild crowd a few times )

The guys were wrong to push, but you were wrong not to speak up, loudly, faster. IMHO.

[TNT]

You didn't do anything wrong...the single men however did. No means No.

The only thing I see that you could have done differently was to have immediately, after saying no and neither of them accepting your no, gone directly to the couple who invited you to the room and explained to them you were having problems with another guest.

Any host/hostess worth their salt will handle any problem a guest is having.

My suggestion to you is when you go to a place by yourself, make sure you have someone you know that you can go to in these type of situations that will help you handle it...be it the host/hostess and/or someone else you trust.

You said that your night improved once the single men were made to leave so just chalk this up to a learning experience and continue to have fun.


Teresa

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- You've had an extreme experience where you felt violated and were. These are strong emotional experiences, whether they're sexual in nature or not. And justifiably, some people, don't get over them quickly.

Years ago, in college, Ed went to a night of avante garde performances. It was typical college stuff. Then, a blind guitar player performed folk music, who was a woman. out of the crowd came two men how started to abuse her. Eddie immediately came to her defense while the crowd watched. It was part of the act. The woman expected noone to come to her aid and demonstrate how violence against women goes unchallenged. Well, she was wrong about that. Security was called and the evening ended. Eddie was really upset, as was everyone there, when it turned out to be 'art'. It took him a long time to get over it because the emotions of the moment were so strong. I think you'll be the same way. Now, it didn't mean we didn't go out any more. He was just ticked off at the person who had the audacity to try something like that.

While he won't let the experience effect his life, the emotions of anger, dare I say rage, over it, took time to pass. It's normal.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by knottyboi

I had gone to a hotel party (my first one)...

...they quickly became EXTREMELY pushy. There was no friendly foreplay, or asking me what I like, or anything like that. It was like they had paid an entrance fee and, dammit, they were going to get some no matter what...

...I bent over and started going down on one man, when all of a sudden, I felt a dick trying to enter me. WHAT??

I whipped around to see the other single guy nonchalantly trying to fuck me, with NO condom on (despite my earlier stating that I don't fuck without them), and he acted like I was ridiculous when I became furious. I had very clearly told him I wasn't interested three times before that...

It's like I'm an object...

Hi knottyboi,

My first huge hotel event had both good and bad elements to it. Among the bad elements, there were moments when I felt like an object. There were moments I was disrespected. I relate to the feelings.

At a certain house party on another occasion, I experienced an extremely pushy man whom I'd already had to say "no" to several times and/or remove his hand from me, and he still later came up behind me when I was bent over and tried to mess with me. I'm married and was with my husband; he was married and was with his wife. I had the same anger and feelings of being dissed and violated that you have. (Unfortunately, it's not always just the single guys, and the victims of this kind of treatment aren't always the single ladies.)

I sympathize and empathize. You have a right to feel this way.

I've learned that it wasn't my fault, but that I do need to be much more forceful when necessary after the first polite "no" is being ignored. From now on, the second "no" is going to be loud and in his face, alerting others if necessary. Wish it didn't have to be this way, but sometimes it just is.

Originally Posted by knottyboi

For those that have had this sort of thing happen to them, how do you cope?

I allow myself to feel what I'm feeling, including feeling scared after the fact, and angry. I process it and give it a little time. Then, I decide what I can and will do differently next time, so that I'm more in control. It may include considering that certain types of events or certain scenarios may not be for me. I also think about the good times that were had and the great people I met, so that I don't overly focus on the few creeps out there who ruined the evening. The good people outweigh the bad.

Hugs to you!!

[ShellyM]

I agree with the other posters girl, they were wrong. Sometimes things just get out of hand, alcohol numbs the brain and people do dumb things. But drunk or not, no means no. There is no "well you are a swinger, you were there to have sex" card. No absolutely means just that, NO. I would take a bit to relax and regather your thoughts. Do you know them? It may help to at least send them an email letting them know that in your mind what they did was basically on the verge of sexual assault. The first time you say NO is the only time you should have to say it. Yes, unfortunately it happens. People do dumb things. Last weekend we were at a house party, and a gent swims up to me and asks if he can touch me. Dummy me, I'm thinking touch means my breasts or something like that....well, he reaches down and sticks 2 fingers in me. I was not amused. I didn't show out, but I let him know that I did not think that was what he meant lol. My point is, know that you did nothing wrong. Swinger or not, house party or not, that is your body and you have every right to determine who does what to YOU.
Best of luck, keep your chin up and know that those creaps are the vast minority...99% of the men would never imagine doing such a thing to a woman.
Shell

[LOL_OMG]

Originally Posted by tribbles

I don't see you as having been in danger of being raped...other than by you not stopping if you had been too drunk to catch them at the entry point. All you ever had to do was make enough of a scene to get help from others in the room. You made the choice to not get that help right away. You did learn that as soon as others knew there was a problem, they jumped in and helped you. Next time, speak up faster!

I disagree here. She made it clear to these guys she wasn't interested, and then one of them sticks a cock in her? Without a condom? I'm thinking at some level that WAS rape.


Knotty you're probably feeling similar feelings to those of a rape victim I would guess. Maybe guilt from - did I do or say enough? Maybe anger from why didn't he take no for an answer, or why didn't anyone else intercede? I would say do a little google searching on the subject and you might find out at least why you are feeling what you are.

Mrs

[tribbles]

I felt a dick trying to enter me. WHAT??

I whipped around to see the other single guy nonchalantly trying to fuck me, with NO condom on (despite my earlier stating that I don't fuck without them)

I disagree here. She made it clear to these guys she wasn't interested, and then one of them sticks a cock in her? Without a condom? I'm thinking at some level that WAS rape.

The way I read it, the cock did NOT get in.

I kinda suspect this is another of those situations where too many participants had a tad too much to drink to pay attention to each other like they need to.

[StacyCat]

I was in a room with a few swingers. I was sitting on the dresser, and one guy was trying to get my pants off, while I didnt want them to come off. He pulled me off the dresser, bringing the dresser, lamp and TV down with us.

Rather than doing anything about it, the "hostess" invited him over to fuck her, saying that I was mean for doing that! WTF!

Basically, being a single female means watching out for yourself, and knowing who you can go to. In this situation, after the guys were obviously not getting the hint, I would have gone to the host/hostess, and explained the situation. Also, if you are comfortable with some of the couples, talk with one or two of them, and ask them to keep and eye on you, make sure this type of thing doesnt happen.

[The Fuse]

Alcohol or no alcohol, play situation or not, people who have never played with each other before have seriously got to make sure that sexual advances are welcome. These two guys clearly felt entitled, which is exactly the wrong attitude.

knottiboi, please don't take any blame on yourself. You said no, you meant no. In the future, you might avoid these things happening by simply saying "not interested" in a more forceful way, one that leaves no doubt even to a guy whose dick is speaking to him loudly in a primal language.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It was a sexually charged situation where the guys might have had some reasonable expectation of play with someone, since the hostess invited them in. But trying to enter you from behind while you were otherwise occupied, and without your prior permission, is attempted rape. They did not respect you. If anything, the first time you have sex with a new playmate, they ought to be making damn sure you really want it, not trying to slip it in.

Have you talked with your hostess about this? Hindsight is 20-20, but perhaps she should have checked with you before invited two single guys you'd never been with.

[Alura]

I don't see any reason why you needed to be more assertive, Knottyboi. Once you said, "No!" there should have been no repeat request.

I wonder what might have happened had one of the single men approached another man and asked if he were interested in fucking him... Let's assume the gentleman, like you, said, "No" and the single guy had tried later to enter him anally while he was going down on a woman. I suspect violence would have ensued.

You were the victim of sexual prejudice, nothing less. You definitely came close to being raped. You have no reason to blame yourself. You have every reason to remain angry for some time for being treated like a whore and worse.

Mr. Alura

[Jeok]

You weren't to blame. Consider the source. "Bad" now means "Good" in the new bastardization of the language. "Whore," "Slut," "Cunt," "Bitch," "Rape," "Screw, "Fuck. etc., are supposedly the new "Terms Of Endearment" according to so called Music and their corresponding videos. It's time we all stand & protest having such viscious trash portrayed in popular culture to demean women: Swinger, Vanilla, Black, White, or Other. IMHO Jeok