Question for the single women

[EternallySingle]

I know this doesn't apply to everyone, or even most. Its just something I've seen over the years (both in real life and online). Why do some single women actively involved in swinging avoid even the idea of dating a man also actively involved in the lifestyle but will date and try to bring a man who knows nothing about swinging into it?

I ask this question because in August I met a woman (I seem meet a lot of women, but I don't seem to click with them) who seemed real eager to be in a LTR with me UNTIL she saw my ad on swinglifestyle in September. Then she said she didn't date guys who thought they were swingers. No matter what I said, she thought I was running some kind of game on her. Funny thing is, she also had an ad on the site, with full face pictures, some explicit, on the site, and she was certified.

I was/am a little confused over the situation. Her ad said "NO SINGLE MEN", but she approached me when we first met. I was actually shocked to see the "no single men line", based on how aggressively SHE pursued ME that first month. But, given her statement about not dating single men who were in the lifestyle, it made sense. I never paid attention to her ad before because it didn't indicate she was looking for single men (I used to love that little scale they had).

Its a mystery to me. Then again, I like mysteries. I think thats why I'm so interested in women. Just looking for a little insight so I can finally put that little episode behind me. Especially since I met her at my favorite hangout and now she totally snubs me when I go there.

[Elusive BiFem]

This is going to sound rather offensive no matter how I say it, and that isn't my intent...just trying to say what I think...so here goes.

If I, as a single woman, want to be involved in the lifestyle, why do I need a single man to accompany or escort me? I don't need a male partner to enjoy myself. Further, most any single female knows she is nothing more than the proverbial "ticket" to the single man and I don't want to be anyone's ticket to anything. Short answer...why bother.

On the other hand, if I start dating someone, form a relationship with him, and want to involve him in the lifestyle with me, that is something entirely different. He and I may have an emotional connection that makes a sharing of our sexuality special, etc., much as married couples profess.

As said, no offense intended...

Now for that woman you met and the 500 e-mails? I don't know. Weird is all I can say. - EBF

[EternallySingle]

I already knew (and often stated) your first point.

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
On the other hand, if I start dating someone, form a relationship with him, and want to involve him in the lifestyle with me, that is something entirely different. He and I may have an emotional connection that makes a sharing of our sexuality special, etc., much as married couples profess.

As said, no offense intended...

Now for that woman you met and the 500 e-mails? I don't know. Weird is all I can say. - EBF

I thought this was the direction we were heading. She told me about her bisexuality and I started suspecting, but I never pushed the issue. I was trying to get to know her. Swinging never entered my mind, except when I came online to make posts here.

Like I said, I had no idea she was involved in the lifestyle and wasn't even thinking along those lines when we started dating. I was actually dating two other women and was just enjoying myself. I started spending more time with her and stopped seeing the other two women, then she found the ad and broke up with me. Next thing I know, I'm in the hospital having my head cut open. Wish they had planted some extra knowledge in there.

[JustAskJulie]

For me, I would probably not want to get into a relationship with a guy who was already involved in swinging (unless I had known him for a long while and spent a great deal of time with him both in and out of swinging).

Why? Because if he was a swinger as well I would always wonder if I was just his ticket.

On the other hand, I would never try to convert a non-swinger. I date non-swingers and in some cases they have known about my lifestyle choices. Even if they brought it up I would probably try to sway them from swinging. I tend to go with the belief that with a new relationship it is important to focus on that relationship and not attempt to bring swinging into it until it is a strong relationship.

Now, all that said, I'm not saying I wouldn't be friends with a single male swinger and even attend clubs with him on occasion in order to have someone to go with. Not that I need a guy to get in... but sometimes it's nice to have someone to go with rather than walking in alone.

[EternallySingle]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
For me, I would probably not want to get into a relationship with a guy who was already involved in swinging (unless I had known him for a long while and spent a great deal of time with him both in and out of swinging).

Why? Because if he was a swinger as well I would always wonder if I was just his ticket.

On the other hand, I would never try to convert a non-swinger. I date non-swingers and in some cases they have known about my lifestyle choices. Even if they brought it up I would probably try to sway them from swinging. I tend to go with the belief that with a new relationship it is important to focus on that relationship and not attempt to bring swinging into it until it is a strong relationship.

Now, all that said, I'm not saying I wouldn't be friends with a single male swinger and even attend clubs with him on occasion in order to have someone to go with. Not that I need a guy to get in... but sometimes it's nice to have someone to go with rather than walking in alone.

Unfortunately, I thought it was something like that. Guess I will be in my fifties when I swing again, because I've come t realize doing it solo wasn't enough for me.

[Vjklander]

I find all this a bit bizarre. I guess I just don't go running around ascribing ulterior motives to everyone I meet.
J

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by Vjklander
I find all this a bit bizarre. I guess I just don't go running around ascribing ulterior motives to everyone I meet.
J

Where are the ulterior motives here? He asked the questions, and we gave our answers as single females and they were essentially similar answers. We would both feel like tickets to a club in the case of a single man wanting to get involved with us for the sole purpose of swinging.

No, I don't ascribe ulterior motives to everyone I meet. If anything, I'm far too gullible when it comes to meeting others - lifestyle and otherwise.

There aren't too many single females on this board...Sadie? What about you? And even some of you involved in relationships? Can you put yourself in the place of the single woman and answer this? Yawanna? You were a single female swinger for awhile. What about you? Others? I'd be interested in hearing your opinions, too. - EBF

[EternallySingle]

I think I understand their suspiscion. Here's a story from my past about a woman using me as a ticket, but to get next to someone famous.

I have a cousin who was a professional basketball player. Once when I was on leave I spent a week with him and his wife. They decided to go to a club one night, but I had to take care of some military business and left a few hours before them. I arrived at the club before they did, but was able to get past the velvet rope because my name was on the list. Immediately three women ran up and said they were with me, one grabbing my crouch. I shook my head and the doorman told them to get back in line.

Inside the club, it wasn't crowded crowded, but there were only a few tables, one was set aside for my cousin and his party. However, since they had not arrived yet, I didn't sit down. I knew the bouncers would keep the seats free. I asked several women to dance and only the ones with dates or husbands said yes, after a nod from their parter, of course. The single women just looked on like "what is that freak doing here alone?"

After my cousin arrived with two more basketball players and I joined them, everyone's eyes were on us for the first half hour or so. The bouncers tried to stop me from joining them, but my cousin told them who I was and I had the royal treatment for the rest of that night. Cool.

Not cool was the fact that several of the women who had rudely and unceremoniously told me to fuck off were suddenly asking me to dance, asking who I was, and if they could join us. My cousin's wife started to let them but I told them I wasn't interested anymore, and that they should at least be polite when turning down a polite invitation to dance (I like to dance) and apologize when they try to cozy up to someone they've insulted. My cousin's wife seemed scandalized, but everyone else (two singers, and actress, and two basketball players as I said earlier) only laughed and asked how long had I been famous.

I think EBF and Julie are saying they are afraid of the same thing. Some guy finding out they swing and getting close to them so they have a way into the lifestyle, not because they like them for themselves. I was asking the question because of several events, like the one I described, where women in the lifestyle seemed totally into me until they found out I was too. Usually they were the ones who confronted me, angrily, about my ads on various websites and accused me of hunting them down and seducing them, since their ads almost always said "no single men". Just like someone getting close to the friend or relative of someone rich or famous so they can be in those same circles, not because they genuinely like the person. That kind of suspiscion, once it starts, is hard to get rid of.

[yawanna]

Swinging is about recreational sex. Many of my 'regular' dates (non swinging men) were about rec sex, too....but I digress

I tried to keep swinging separate from what I called my 'regular' life. As others have shared, there is no shortage of single men available to swinger women. Since I met these men in that venue, our discussions would be around boundaries, expectations, do's and don'ts, in participating in this activity.

Sure, there would be some discussion of 'what do you do for a living?' but most conversation was focussed on swinging.

I didn't consider the men that I met with as potential partner material. I didn't consider this 'dating'. We were meeting for only one reason: sex.

From experience, the next thing that usually happened was the guy thinking.. 'hey! Here's a wild girl I can party with and have multiple sexual partners and sexual adventures!'

Next....while we were going to swinger events or meeting others, maybe he'd take me to dinner first and talk more personally...but we always ended up having sex with other people. The woman ends up being a ticket in...intentioned or not. He can't get in to those events without a woman. He can't meet other couples for sex unless he is a couple. There is always a fear that you, the woman, are being used. A fear I don't think is irrational, if your 'dates' are mostly at swinger events. And if you don't at first, and the man knows you swing, at what point will he drop the other shoe and suggest you two attend house parties or meet other couples for sex?

I met my husband via a swinger venue....we weren't dating or hooking up for the purpose of swinging...we just happened to have friends in common and attended a swinger social event together. In fact... it was a meet and greet event that another couple and I had organized. The other couple had met him over coffee, and I offered to bring him along with me to the meet and greet. He and I were not meeting for rec sex.

We did end up dating and falling in love. We spent a LOT of time alone together and with our families. We had our own demanding careers. We did, however, maintain our swinger friendships. I think it was partly that most of the swingers I knew, I had known for years and we were all good friends, that he and I continue in swinging. I also know of several swingers who met in much the same way....the few who are still together, are the ones who put their relationship first and foremost. He has never suggested that we attend any swinger event or activity, never suggested that we meet other people for sex.

I made those plans once I felt sure about 'us' and our stability and committment to each other.

On a related note....I knew several women who said they were in swinging for the rec sex, and as soon as a guy she was playing with expressed the slightest interest in any other part of her life, she latched onto him like a clamp! These don't last too long, OR.... they keep swinging first and foremost in their lives. It becomes the biggest part of that couple being together.

I'll share one other little tidbit that I've experienced and witnessed.... there are couples who don't like the single swinger woman having a relationship beyond rec sex with a single guy. They may tell her 'he's only using you. He needs a ticket. Why limit yourself. You're a swinger...he's not'. I've stood up to those couples, on my own and other women's behalf...but that's another thread

[EternallySingle]

Thanks, everyone. Everything is a little clearer to me (and maybe to other single men in the same frame of mind as me). In short, swinging is a deal killer if you are a single man. If she knows from the beginning, she's suspicious of your motives involving a relationship with her. If she learns later, you've kept something from her, thus were dishonest and were probably, once again, using her for less than honorable reasons. hmmmmm

Like I've said many times before, its been a while since I was actively involved in swinging and I really REALLY was dissatisfied with the quality of couples who would swing with me as a single. Or rather, the way they acted towards me as a single man as opposed to when I was a part of a couple. As a single man, I was little more than someone they could trust to help them live out a fantasy and not blab to others, but nothing really more than that. It was sex, and the friendliness was more along the lines of "You can trust him, he won't tell who you are." Totally different attitude from then, even though I was the same person.

Guess its like I said in another post. Its not in the woman's best interest to get involved with a man if she's actively involved in swinging, especially if he is, was, or wants to be also. Not that she couldn't fall in love with him, but that she would always be suspicious of his motives until she was able to prove to herself they weren't just to gain a ticket.

Which leads me to my next question: How long would it take a man you knew was also into swinging to convince you that he was interested in you more than swinging and his staying with you had nothing to do with whether or not he would be a welcome member of the lifestyle as half of a couple?

(Sorry, EBF. I did write for a living at one time )

[yawanna]

How long would it take a man you knew was also into swinging to convince you that he was interested in you more than swinging and his staying with you had nothing to do with whether or not he would be a welcome member of the lifestyle as half of a couple?

Once he told me he didn't need or want to swing to be with me, and he made no moves or suggestions in that direction? Probably not too long.... actions speak louder than words....and if all else in our relationship is honest and not raising any doubts or concerns... pretty darn quickly I'd say.

[OhioCouple]

I've never been a single 'swinging woman', so just take my thoughts for what they are worth.

I equate this to being like anything else of interest in life. Based on ES's posting...how much can you really know about someone in a months time? Either dating has become an all night every night thing or couples talk about everything in their lives for hours on end in order to 'know' everything, NOW. If I met a guy and was attracted to him, we dated and then it came out, either by my stumbling across something or them telling me... AND if I shared that common interest, I'd probably think "AWESOME!", something else to talk about of 'common interest'!!

Why should finding out an interest in swinging, per se, be any different than learning that the person you are dating is interested in bass fishing, bowling, stamp collecting, needlework...etc? Granted swinging involves sexuality, but all of the above involves communication or meeting with like minded people for those who are heavily involved in them. If ones life is totally consumed by ANY of the above and not appropriately balanced, then that would be a huge turn off for me. The fact that I discover they have an interest in swinging would have nothing to do with it. The fact that they are consumed with that recreational aspect of their life would be.

I would not care to be constantly steered towards baiting a hook, threading a needle or attending swinging parties, if I didn't care for that sort of activity to the extent that they did. Why should any person be evaluated or immediately discarded because they share a common interest with you...in this case, swinging?

Unless of course that is all they have to talk about and it becomes the focus of the relationship. But then I would feel the same way about bass fishing.

Just my .02 worth.

Mrs. O

[Vjklander]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Where are the ulterior motives here?

Referring to the others, not our esteemed colleagues.
J

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Vjklander
Referring to the others, not our esteemed colleagues.
J

Good golly. Please color me in as stupid in what ever color you wish, but I truly didn't understand your original comment or this one. I suppose I need better clarification.

Could you please clarify both comments?

[EternallySingle]

That is what I was getting at, OhioCouple. While I understood and accept everything EBF, Julie, and Yawanna said, they all implied that they jumped from meeting a guy to thinking that guy was trying to use them to get into swinging because he was involved or wanted to be involved in swinging. In a way, it does make sense. Not fair to either party, but it makes sense.

I guess that yesterday (Thursday) I got frustrated because this woman I used to have fun philosophical debates with won't talk to me because...I don't know why still. Just looking for clues to solve my own problem. Helps to talk to people about things like this.

Since I'm really not interested in swinging solo anymore, and most single women don't want to start a relationship with single men already involved in swinging(still don't get that one), why have an ad online saying I'm looking for someone? Casual sex is easy enough to find with non-swingers. Easier, actually. Since the 3some with a couple thing isn't something I'm looking for (won't pass it up, but not looking for it), I figure its time to pull my ads and concentrate on what I feel is important, not hope to fall into a fantasy.

Then again, would that mean I can't go to the Meet-and-greet? That would suck (and not in a good way)

too many questions, not enough coffeehead bang