single male bashing

[martin]

not to get myself in deep shit again but it would seem to me that this is the perfect reason to have a married male as a playmate.he goes home to his wife and with any luck wants to bring her the next time. i would love to meet a couple who wants a no strings fun time and if they wanted to do it again great if not ok too. i have also had, back when i was single, a couple who after a first time would not leave me be . not that i didnt like them or found them a great time to be with but it got real pushy and very uncomfortable. so couples are not imune from less than acceptable behavior. but i guess that makes sense , just because your married dosent cure you of asshole tendancies.

[JustAskJulie]

Married males are fine so long as their wife knows what they are doing and they aren't cheating on her. Swinging is the antithesis of cheating, we aren't hear to help some married guy cheat on his wife, we can fulfil our fantasies without breaking up a marriage.

[LIZA]

Absolutely!
There are SO many single and attractive men who would LOVE to try swinging.......Why would a couple want a married man going behind his wife's back??
I have heard a bunch of times that the mans wife knows all about it and gives her blessings, but funny thing is I have only heard that from the man, NEVER the so-understanding wife!
If you are a married man and your wife isn't into it, you're pretty much S.O.L~

[martin]

you missed my point , i understand about the cheaters , obviously from my posts of the recent past. my point was only from the veiw of NOT having some single guy start chasing your wife around at work and being a general pest. once again just an inquireing mind.

[danc694u]

Originally posted by martin:
my point was only from the veiw of NOT having some single guy start chasing your wife around at work and being a general pest.

We had this happen just recently. Although I was concerned about it. It wasn't out of jealousy. It was more out of concern for Maggies well being.

A recent meeting with friends introduced us to a nice, soon to be divorced guy. He was very well mannered. Didn't seem pushy at all. And, a really nice looking guy.

BUT! He called daily for about a week. Then, he made it a point to show up at Maggies place of work for 3 straight days, and waited in the parking lot for her to get off work. Which is generally somewhere between 5pm and 10pm, depending on the day.

This in our opinion, is not the way to go about getting hooked up with a couple. It is a good way to get your a$$ shot off though.

Just my thoughts.

David -- The Anal One

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: danc694u ]

[TNT]

[quote]Originally posted by danc694u:
[QB]BUT! He called daily for about a week. Then, he made it a point to show up at Maggies place of work for 3 straight days.


You mean to tell me that this guy is still walking around. I'm afraid that should we ever find ourselves in a similar situation, the guy might be walking around, but it would be with a definite limp.

A prime example why you have to be so careful when it comes to picking single men.

Man David, that's scarry, I hope you handled it for Maggie's sake.

Teresa

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: TNT ]

[danc694u]

It's also a wake-up call about other potential couples. Namely those who do not mind giving your phone number & place of work to someone else.

But, yes it was handled.

[martin]

sounds to scarey , hopefully it has all worked out. ive heard this kind of story before, i guess all you can do is be very careful about what info you pass on . its difficult to have a conversation with out talk about home or work.

[MiCpl]

Luckily for us I guess, we have never had any problems with single males. We have had more problems with married guys at parties or in general being pushy about getting with us than anything else.

A few examples:
- A married man that she met at work, nice guy. He and his wife had swung in the past, but she was more into girls and not really into guys at all. Things ended up working out so that she met the wife and they liked each other and ended up playing. The man got jealous because he had "found her first" and hadn't gotten to play with her first. The situation was just a little to much, so they are gone.

- A couple that we met at some swinger parties we used to go to. Every time we walked into the parties the guy would start bugging her about playing. The female half of that couple was really nice and a great person to be around, but the male half wasn't interested in everyone getting together, just in taking her off to a private room.

- And most recently. We went to a NYE party this weekend. Most of the people there we knew really well and had played with in the past. There were a few couples tho that we didn't know. Obviously, what is ok for someone you know really well is different for someone you don't. There were two single guys at this party. Both are awesome guys (which is why they were there) but neither of them were ever in any way pushy with any of the ladies. There was a married guy tho (half of one of the couples we didn't know), who after she had introduced herself to him and chatted a while to be nice and try to get to know everyone. He spent the rest of the night pretty much following her around, grabbing her, rubbing her body every time he was near. At one point she even had me wedge her between myself and a counter so that the guy couldn't get to her. It culminated when he followed us and a group of friends to the hot tub and proceeded to sit lean into the middle of hte hot tub keeping us from having any sort of conversation with our friends without having to talk over him (or for that matter being able to play without involving him). When he came out she actually got up and moved to put herself between me and one of the other guys to make sure he couldn't sit by her, but his hands kept drifting towards her again and she just kept moving away. Finally, his hand got too close and she just grabbed it and moved it away. He finally got the hint and got out of the tub at that point.

****
We have always been very picky about who we play with whether it's guys or couples. Luckily, we've never had anyone show up at our door or work or anything like that. We have had a couple of couples tho who just couldn't take the hint and emailed us constantly after we told them we weren't interested. But never a single guy.....

S&J

[LIZA]

MiCpl-


Your wife should have said something clear to this guy LONG before, instead of letting him ruin your night!
I found it hard at first to say "no" but have gotten better and if there is no interest it is best said right away, instead of allowing someone to follow you around pawing you all night.
We have several times enountered men at couples only clubs whos wife or girlfriend seems to have disappeared or fallen asleep by 11pm and they can be a huge nuisance .... Makes you wonder why they (they female partner) would have agreed to go in the first place

[Flori_DAMAN]

We had a guy that my wife couldn't stand just reach over from behind her and fondle her tits once while she was sitting facing me. He said "hi, just thought I'd get to know the twins" or some stupid thing.

I spoke up rather loudly and told him that unless the "twins" invited him he should go get to know something else. He took one look at my face and his hands left her tits like they were on a hotplate.

A swing club is not a place that people have a license to be rude, obnoxious, assaulting, or any different than anyplace else. I will not tolerate pawing for one minute unless she enjoys it of course.

First do as Liza says and make your objections perfectly clear. Then do not hesitate to discuss the situation with the manager or person in charge if they continue.

[MiCpl]

Liza,

I agree she should have said something earlier on. She said that initially it didn't bother her, but as the night went on and she realized that he was grabbing or groping EVERY time he walked by then it started to. What kept her from saying anything was the desire to not make a scene as this was at a good friends of ours house. Unfortunately, there was never a good chance to say anything to our host about this guy until after he had finally gotten the hint. His wife was still completely awake and being a nuisance (in other ways) in another part of the house (but he didn't really seem to have any interest in being around her). It was obvious he was trolling for a piece.. but don't think he got any.

S&J

[DRxDON]

If y'all don't mind, I'm going to post my abbreviated thesis on the origin of swinging and why single guys are usually "persona non gratta". Contrary to a lot the hype *today*, perpetuated and believed by lifestyle psychologists and organizations, seminar leaders and even most "regular" swingers themselves, about swinging being a wonderful lifestyle where "loving couples" can get together, socialize like anybody else, and "experience" the "ultimate joy" of each other, "swinging" had its roots as sort of an "excuse" and a "safe" environment for the expression of pure lust, decadence and hedonism, and still is to a great extent. I know that most, if not all swingers will totally disagree with this premise and go to great lengths to separate the "hedonistic pursuit of lust" and "swinging". Of course many long lasting friendships are made in the lifestyle and free and open sex *can* be a way of sharing a kind of intimacy with these friends that you could never do in the mundane "straight" world. But let's get real; let's call a spade a spade. Whitewash it all you want with all these high minded Utopian ideals, people become swingers so they can fuck other people, to which, I might
add I have no reservations whatsoever.

But let me get back to the issue of the "safe environment". This safe environment is mainly for the females' sake as most guys could care less about such a "warm", "cozy" scene. This is because of the stigma that has been, and still is, attached to highly sexed women. Outside of the confines of marriage, or of the "hidden secret elite" of the swingers' lifestyle, any woman, any *single* woman, who abandons her inhibitions and engages in promiscuous sex has always been, and still is, considered a "whore", a "slut", a "scag", a "bimbo", and the list goes on and on.

Many women, if not most, have as strong erotic desires as men but are not permitted to express them in this "normal" society. Many are also so conditioned by this social taboo that, even on an unconscious level, without direct interaction with society, they feel inhibited and even unable to admit to themselves that they have these feelings.

This is where the husband often comes in, trying to relax his wife's uptight feelings about sex and attempting to loosen her inhibitions. Because, as we all know, men are more often hornier and less inhibited than women in such circumstances, and a loving husband, rather than looking elsewhere, will patiently spend a long time involved in his wife's "liberation", often even for many years. But when she finally lets go, LOOK OUT!

This is when both are ready to join the lifestyle and freely fuck as many people as they want. It's somewhat of a paradox that ONLY married people are "permitted" to be totally uninhibited, having all kinds of orgies and fucking this person and that.

Here is the origin of the "elitism" of the swinging lifestyle. The husband has spent many years with only sparse or "vanilla sex" in the process of loosening up his wife. He now feels that he has "payed his dues" and "deserves" to be a member of an elite society. The wife, having been "freed" and then introduced to this lifestyle also feels "special", and along with her husband, feels like a member of a unique socially elite group of people that are in a league of
their own.

Single females are always welcomed because they are "nice playthings", both for the extra horny husbands and for the newly awakened sexually exploratory females. But single men???? HA! They are the dregs! What do they have to offer most of us elitists? We(the husbands) have spent
(usually) many frustrating years with our sexually awakening wives before we gained the "priveledge" to be a part of this elite society of hedonism and *you* expect to instantly partake of the many pleasures available because of OUR HARD WORK without even paying any dues????? Get lost loser!!

Of course this smug attitude is also internalized by the wives, many times even
more so because many have an unconscious "priveldged queen" attitude about the whole thing. After all, their husbands "gave" this luxurious, wild, uninhibited lifestyle to them,....and usually continue to give to them. Why do they want to see a bunch of
uncouth, Joe Schmoe, horn dogs wandering around, whom they remember from their dating days before they met "Mr. Wonderful"?

I'm not saying that this is a realistic personal perspective of "reality", but I do believe that it is *generally* a realistic portrayal of how people in the lifestyle see things, at least on an unconscious level. The younger crowd coming in may help to change things a bit and free stuff up, but I'm afraid that a lot of them just buy into the "elitism" too so that they can feel unique and special.

The real hope for change, I believe, is comming from the influx of younger, modern, strong willed women, who are not afraid of society's mores, are free and open about their sexuality and not afraid of expressing this or saying so. If you read the profiles of many of these women you will see that they are generally looking for couples and single men, and a very significant number are ONLY looking for single males!

I mean, where are highly sexed, erotic, open minded and uninhibited males and females supposed to connect? Certainly not at traditional dance clubs or "meat markets". Many traditionally hot and horny people are at these places, but also a lot of insecurites and head games about "who's doing whom" and straight views on monogamy. I can envision, not too soon, but in the foreseeable future, "lifestyle *dating* clubs", of course with an exclusive clientel, screenings and the sort, which I would gladly accept....as long as the "elitist bug" didn't settle in here too strong either. .........Only time will tell.....

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: DRxDON ]

[Derek]

This is a really interesting--and frustrating--topic. I'm a healthy, sophisticated, clean, experienced single male who has had girlfriends who were swingers. So, in every respect, other than my single-ness, I should be an attractive candidate for a couple looking for a third.

But it's something of a Catch 22: Here in NYC, there are no clubs that admit single men. So, if I can't get in and be allowed the opportunity for couples get to know me, I can't participate.

As much as I loathe admitting it, I see both sides of the argument: I totally relate to all the guys who bitch about the near-prejudicial exclusion they have to deal with (this has been on my mind recently with this brouhaha about the Masters golf tournament in GA barring women--where else but in the usually open-minded world of swing clubs is near-blanket exclusion of an entire gender tolerated?) And, health/honesty concerns aside, I can't help feeling there is something to the accusations of hypocrisy, sexism, and male selfishness in the scene.

On the other hand, I understand couples' concerns about swinging with married, infected, or otherwise dishonest guys.

It's been a very long time since I've posted here, and that has everything to do with my discouragement about this bias, for lack of a better word.

What to do??/

I have been dealing with the distrust of single males within swinging circles for 20 years or so. It's not been a horrible experience by any means, but there are some things that my experience has shown me that may be of use to others.

A bit of background first. I am 40 years old now and I am what is known as a confirmed bachelor. I like living alone, doing what I want, when I want, where I want. I like knowing that the socks I left on the bedroom floor are right where I left them and that nobody is going to be bothered by them but me. I like knowing that my bank account has exactly as much money in it as it had the last time I wrote my balance in my checkbook. In other words, the little things like these that married men somehow adapt to are beyond my ability, understanding or desire to incorporate into my existence. But don't get me wrong. I love women, but I don't want a wife. Not even a sexually liberated swinging wife.

That being said, I believe that there is as much, if not more distrust of single men in general by women than by men. Most of the men within the swinging circles I have been involved with have an initial distrust of single males. Once the husband/male SO knows something about me and has sized me up, he soon realizes that while I might like his wife/gf and even want to bed her, I don't want to keep her. His initial distrust usually lasts only a few minutes into our conversation.

The wife/gf is usually initially less distrustful, but once the idea sinks in that I don't want her (or any other woman for that matter) enough to even secretly desire to take her from her man, the knowledge seems to drive her to distrust my motives. This is usually accompanied by several introductions to single female friends of hers, which have often been very enjoyable, but do not lead to committed entanglements and therefore do not garner in the wife/gf's mind the security she seeks. Eventually she will pigeonhole me as a strange one and we will not play anymore.

Funny thing, I almost always remain friends with the husband so that now, most of my best golfing buddies are hubbies whose wives no longer want to play with me.

I don't blame anyone. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, conscious and subconscious and I don't have the energy or inclination to try to change the world. It is what it is. And since there are so many single females who enjoy a good time with a nice, attractive, finacially secure, gentleman who wants no commitment from them, I do just fine. (*pardon the gratuitous self promotion ) Just food for thought.

Live and love well.