No single males? Why not??

[Flori_DAMAN]

Mrs. O said,

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

Just needed to repeat the important part.


don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.



A favorable light? Just curious as I am a single male in the lifestyle. My political beliefs cannot account for the fact that you know single males are a part of this board.

Julie runs the board and she has stated many times that singles are welcome and a big part of the lifestyle.

Who do you put in a favorite light? It obviously is based on marital status huh?

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight. But I would never publisize it based on category.....I wouldn't say "I won't swing with an Ohio female that insults me".

I would never insinuate that just because you are so irrational that doesn't make you appealing to the good of the board.

I sure wish I had the power to just say who and who is not in a favorable light? Id be the site owner Huh?

Mrs. O, this is not a couples board. Does anyone else think it is?

If you would (and obviuosly do) want to change the board to couples then do so. Talk to Julie, but don't just keep insulting singles...yur rudeness is showing...and believe me thats worse than your titties in a church, and all I can say is JAYSUS....and amen.
Why attack singles. We really don't care that you have someone ,well I guess I care, because I am glad you are not single. Sometimes I am sure you hubby has to take your biting words instead of us.

Lots of people may care to partake. I think it is unfair to them that you feel such a need to display your animosity toward us. As a single many couples are actually interested in me. I would like to take this opportunity to say I have never been with MRS. O or hubby, so regardless of their opinions I have never had sex with them nor never would contemplate it. That is one for sure NO WAY JOSE....lol

Put a plug in it O

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

Let me re-phrase this statement.

"That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see 'MOST' single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light. "

Now is that better, John? I missed one word. Excuse me. And if you read my post in it's entirety it does not CAST ALL SINGLE MEN IN THE SAME CATAGORY.

HENCE:

There are a few single men on this site that we would not mind traveling the distance to meet, if only for nothing more than dinner. There are a few single men on this site that are a good representation of what we like in couples.

So I don't discriminate against single men, I just have a sour taste for single dweebs and couples that are dweebs.

Now just where are those comments insinuating that we have a displeasure for all single men? In both of the above comments the word singles are used with the word couples.

We choose all of our relationships, swinging or non based on a variety of interests and aspects. We don't happen to be interested in people that only want to exchange pictures and talk cheap sex. We aren't interested in those that want to 'play' rough. We aren't interested in those that can't hold a decent conversation or like to kick dogs or put cat's in a metal trash can to hear them wail. We aren't interested in those kind of people and they come in singles and couples alike. I am sure there is someone out there for those kind of people, we just aren't them.

Digest the entire posting the next time before you choose one sentence.

Marital status has no bearing, the person who shares our common interests does.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN
Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight.

There is nothing here to be won or lost, John. The original question of this thread was:

No single males? Why not?. I answered it based on our experience and you didn't like the response. You chose to go way out in left field with it, for reasons that don't concern this thread.

So, to add to my previous assessment of how we choose our relationships, swinging or non, ATTITUDE plays a major part in it.

[Bob123]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC
It's a fairly reasoned argument but the fallacy of this argument is this:

1) it assumes that women want or need "sperm"
2) it assumes that sex is the only way to get it.

Both assumptions are flawed. It is obvious that some women do not wish to have children and further, some women can't get pregnant -- do you propose that these women have lost 50% desire for men on that count.

There exist any number of ways to get pregnant that do not involve sex with a man. This is the 21st century -- there are options to sex. That then dispells the idea that a man as "sperm donor" is terminally faulted.

On the other debate -- the later part of the 20th century and this first part of the 21st clearly give us examples of women willing to "die for" what they believe in. History gives us numerous examples of women willing to die for both their husband and children. Unless you want me to provide examples from history, then your argument on that count is terminally faulted to. Remember that St. Joan d'Arc was a woman willing to fight and die for what she believed in and that the casualty list of our recent war with Iraq includes women as well as men. Women are clearly prepared to pay the price

Further: there are far too many recent examples of same-sex comiited relationships to argue that a women wouldn't be willing to bring home the bacon -- even without our recent change in social acceptance of FF coupled families -- there are historical examples of women that provided all subsitence for their family without the aid of a man. Men then are not needed for breadwinning as much as some men would like to believe.

So, I think we can say with some rationality that the reason some couples don't invite men is not:
1) because men are only good as sperm donors - there are alternatives.
2) because women won't serve a protector role - they clearly will.
3) because women won't play the provider role - they do it every day.

Then what we have done here is establish a few reasons that are not why some couples don't invite single men but, we've yet to determine the original point of question -- why do some couples not invite single men? We can't debate the topic if we bring into the debate an annonymous authority.

While I concede that I have used an appeal to popularity motive and a style over substance argument (in this post) in some posts here -- the appeal to pity is not a valid introduction into this discussion.

If I didn't know better -- I'd think that you had gotten a list of logical fallacies and are attempting to present one of each into this debate. We're not going to take on attacks on the presenter next are we? That's be sad....

Let's explore this idea ad nauseum -- "why do some couple not invite single men to play?" -- the real why -- not the self agrandizing why.

Or has it been covered in the other posts to completion?

Sperm comes from a man that is the only place it comes from. No matter where you get sperm it came from a man.

I did not mean to say all women, I meant to say most. I am talking about the general rule. You are talking about execptions to the rule. There are exceptions to every rule.

[Bob123]

Of all bi females I have ever seen, most find one man to stay with and then want to be with many different women. I have never seen a bi fem that finds one woman to be with forever and then has sex with man different men. This may or may not have something to do with it.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

wow! got some discussion while I was sleeping and I missed it.

So, now we've attacked OhioCouple too because there was an opinion posted as to why couples don't invite single men and it seems at least one single guy didn't like what he heard. Is it true here then that the single guys can express freely whatever opinion they want but that couples are not allowed the same privilege without the single guys saying they'll take their toys and go home.

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight.

Let's grow up a touch dear friend -- this discussion is about why couples don't invite single men into their bedroom -- it's NOT about whether single men should be posting to this board. It's a response to a simple question and one which no single guy is qualified to answer - except possibly by way of observation -- in as much as no single guy is the intended respondent to "why do couples..."

as for the comment

I did not mean to say all women, I meant to say most. I am talking about the general rule. You are talking about execptions to the rule. There are exceptions to every rule.

Again, we're addressing the question "why do couples not invite single men..." and not why do bi-women establish primary relationships with men. That men provide all sperm is not an issue with most couples as they select a partner for swinging. Nor is the social standard that "men bring home the bacon" while women "keep the house" -- none of these issues relate to the original question of "why do couples not invite single men"; they relate more to 1:1 interpersonal relations. Certainly, impregnation is not often a 2:1 consideration.

So, what I see here is this:

The question has been answered via opinion of some women and couples as to why single men are not invited to play. A few single men were offended by those opinions while still agreeing that a couple can invite or not anyone they like.

We've concluded and several agree, that single men are not the primary attraction to swinging couples -- that the elusive single bi-woman is a more sought after partner and that single men fall far down the line in the partner search. I'm not sure that is true of the population in general, but it is true in regard to swinging lifestyle in general.

Further, several couples have clearly stated that they do in fact invite single men and that they find these single men in places other than a swingers forum. Therefor, single men who are not being approached by these couples must be unqualified based on some other criteria than their single status.

We've seen every logical fallacy known -- including massive appeals to pitty applied by the single men responding in order to support their argument that "couples should invite single men because single men are nice/deserving/polite/etc..." and yet not too many single men will acknowledge that "couples often don't invite single men" for no reason other than they just don't want to.

It seems to me -- and this is only my opinion -- that the replies made by some single men on this thread do nothing to enhance the desire of couples to invite single men -- they simply reinforce the opinion of some couples that single men aren't worth their time unless they want to add some un-needed drama to their life.

Some seem to take such debate as a personal attack -- ie: I'm a single male, this couple doesn't like single males, therefor they don't like me. The fault here is that this isn't algebra - it doesn't hold here that A+B=C therefor B+A=D where D is a sub group of C.

Not only have we challenged several people posting with less than nice rhetoric -- many in this thread have stepped beyond being nice. That in itself speaks to the issue as one of passioned debate. One which some of these men take very much to heart -- and yet they will each agree that a couple is free to select or not select any partner they wish.

Now, the argument

Sperm comes from a man that is the only place it comes from. No matter where you get sperm it came from a man.

while this is a fact, it is not a fact in the application we have here -- we can not deduct in the 21st century that "since sperm comes from a man, the only way I can have children is to have sex with a man" That issue is proven beyond any debate -- it is possible (and not uncommon) to have children without having sex with the sperm donor. So, that point does not explain the need for men in a relationship at all and may explain why some women do not need a man at all.

Maybe we should address the question in another thread of why couples should consider inviting single men to play. This thread though is about why they don't. The bottom line reason why they don't is that "couples are free to invite anyone they want -- so some elect to not invite single men"

If you want to explore it slightly further:

It seems that a statistical majority of swinging couples are looking for bi-women and NOT men. Therefor they do not invite men (single or married) unless that man also brings a bi-woman to the relationship. Makes sense.

Further, some couples are seeking a direct hetersexual partner swap -- 1:1 + 1:1 -- a single man only brings half of that needed outcome and therefor would create an odd man out scenario. Therefor they do not invite single men. Makes sense.

Some couples - a fairly small statistical percentage -- are looking for a man to add to the relation in form of MFM or MMF. These couple are interested in a single guy but not in a married cheater. Some of these couples are looking for a bisexual male, which dwindles the selection pool even more.

Some couples will f**k anything that moves and therefor leave an opening for single and married guys as well as women...

So, the fact is that some couples DO invite single guys to play and some do not. Finding a place within a couple relationship when you're a single guy requires that you appeal to those couples that DO invite single guys. Replying to a swingers ad that clearly says "we're looking for a bi-female or couple with bi-female. No single males please" when you are a single guy does nothing more than imply you can't understand written English. You don't follow instructions well and therefor you won't respect boundaries either. Their ad isn't saying "we hate single guys", it's saying "she wants a woman"

This isn't that hard to understand is it????

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Of all bi females I have ever seen, most find one man to stay with and then want to be with many different women. I have never seen a bi fem that finds one woman to be with forever and then has sex with man different men. This may or may not have something to do with it.

What if I wrote here:

Of all single men I've ever seen, most try to sleep with as many women as they can but don't want to make a commitment or even become friends first. I have never seen a single man that isn't ruled by his dick. This may or may not have something to do with it.
-----------------------------

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me? I know that as a bisexual woman, I find your comments offensive and more than a little misinformed. You are implying that I can't make a commitment to a woman I love when I have done just that in the past. You're implying too that bi-sexual women are coochie sluts since we "want to be with many different women" but in reality, most do not want "many different women" - we want that one special woman. That's why those few who are single are such an elusive commodity. We don't enter a hetero relation to use the man -- the nature of bisexuality requires him. That's why it's called bi and what distinguishes us from the lesbian community.

But then again, this is simply the typical male mythos of the bi-woman -- she must be a hyper-slut nymphomaniac if she loves women too...

It still doesn't address why couples don't invite single men to play --- maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions.... as is evidenced by this thread.

[bear_n_bunny]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN
Mrs. O said,

That is why we (OhioCouple) don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.

Just needed to repeat the important part.


don't see single men in the lifestyle in a favorable light.



A favorable light? Just curious as I am a single male in the lifestyle. My political beliefs cannot account for the fact that you know single males are a part of this board.

Julie runs the board and she has stated many times that singles are welcome and a big part of the lifestyle.

Who do you put in a favorite light? It obviously is based on marital status huh?

Hey lets face it we are in an unfavorable light. I guess I am not welcome here. I spent a lot of time talking to Roxy last night, but now I see her point. I cannot take the insults and I am sure that was a factor in the post....you win. I choose not to fight. But I would never publisize it based on category.....I wouldn't say "I won't swing with an Ohio female that insults me".

[rest deleted for brevity]

Put a plug in it O

Damn, boy. You need to cool your thrusters. Did you not read her post?!?!? Her case was quite unambiguous, and very accurate, as most any couple who has been in swinging for any length of time can attest. The sad fact is that there ARE a lot of single guys out here who are, not to put too fine a point on it, annoying little pests in the swinging world. Why the hell do you think so damn many couples write, often repeatedly, in all caps NO SINGLE MALES in their ads? Or set their assorted IMs to "invisible" mode? It's because they've been haruanged so many times by single guys on the prowl for pussy and they've had enough!

How many ways does it have to be said to get the message across? Most couples are NOT looking for single men to play with. PERIOD. This is not what most swingers are about. MOST swinger couples are looking for other COUPLES to play with. GET IT?

Someone put it real well when they said that single men complaining about not being scooped up in the swingers' arena is like a single guy going to a lesbian bar and bitching because he didn't get laid there either. And NO, it's NOT a matter of ALL single men being bad people; in the main it is simply a matter of (1.) a higher than normal incidence of single guys behaving badly, and (2.) swinging being an activity wherein few single men are desired (rather like going to a football game and expecting everyone to play baseball instead).

You guys really need to quit whining, and face the reality that this is a venue wherein single men are not a required element for the most part. To repeat, your coming into a swingers group and expecting to be greeted with open arms is like going to a pizza parlor and demanding a hamburger, and then getting pissy when you don't get it. You may occasionally find a pizza parlor that also serves hamburgers, but that is going to be a damned rare occurrence. DEAL WITH IT.

[Bob123]

Please do not get upset when we questions about why people do things just because we are single and are men. If you never ask any questions, you will probably not get any answers.

What if I wrote here:


Of all single men I've ever seen, most try to sleep with as many women as they can but don't want to make a commitment or even become friends first. I have never seen a single man that isn't ruled by his dick. This may or may not have something to do with it.



Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me?

The short answer is no.




It still doesn't address why couples don't invite single men to play --- maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions.... as is evidenced by this thread.


You have not stayed true to your own topic yourself.

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me?

What does this have to do with your topic?

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Wouldn't you single men find this insulting and then flame me?

and you answer - "no"

Total BS Bob -- you were insulted that some couples don't invite single men to play, that's why you're in this post! You are clearly easy to incite.

Then you clip small pieces of my post without the whole context -- you can't think that the other readers here are so stupid that they don't see that your attempting a redirect? Give us all more credit than that.

Now you're going to argue that I'm off topic by responding directly to your off-topic post and one of another writer. You are good at keeping a discussion off topic aren't you? This is called circular logic and it is yet another indicator of poor argumentative skills.

I'd suggest right here and now that you and several others aren't in the least bit interested in a reasonable answer to this question. You're interested in maintaining conflict. That's all. It is kinda fun though so I'll play at it with you.

I propose that a few reasons that couples don't invite single men to play with them is that many single men (as is evidenced by posts here) are

1) too sensitive and jump to illogical conclusions
2) are interested in maintaining conflict and drama where none need be
3) refuse to see beyond their own individual needs.

Further, I'm going to argue at this point that "some couples DO invite single men to play" they just don't invite morons.... {not to imply here that anyone in particular is a moron -- but if the shoe fits...}

[Perseus]

Well, I have been in on one flame war this week; I don’t intend to get into another. I can see that a certain couple of people have totally poisoned the waters for the single guys again. We had nice discussions about being single in the lifestyle in this forum until this last week, and now it is turning downright mean. I for one am gonna try stay above it till some one attacks me. When that happens, I may have to find a game board to post to instead for a while.

That said, John, You have a bad day? Need a chill pill? If you have a personal problem with Mrs. O, you need to take it private.

Bob, I know what you are saying and your views on women and the general treatment of all males through out history is well documented. Maybe we could tone it down and be a little more constructive. I don’t think you are gonna win the ‘gender revolution’ in a single swingers forum.

As to the original question, I think a lot of people here are looking for a fight and somehow they are looking for the events of the last week to bolster their positions. Why don’t couples look for single males as much as couples and females? The answers are quite clear and have been stated many times. I want to write all of what I really think on the subject, but I am gonna take my time and present it instead of do it off the cuff.

Till then, Cheers! And keep the flames to a minimum.



Perseus

P.S. *Drucilla tries on shoe* Awww... Darn!

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Bob! did you read your own post?

you quote me as:

It still doesn't address why couples don't invite single men to play --- maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions.... as is evidenced by this thread.

then you say:

You have not stayed true to your own topic yourself

DID YOU MISS THE PART THAT READS:

maybe one reason is that single men can't follow instructions

that's the point of the thread -- why do some couples not invite single men to play... that is a proposed reason! What part of that doesn't maintain the thread logic

Also, it's not "my topic" -- I'm just a contributor here. The topic was created by someone else. Get with the program buddy!

[RnLinohio]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN
[
Lots of people may care to partake. I think it is unfair to them that you feel such a need to display your animosity toward us. As a single many couples are actually interested in me. I would like to take this opportunity to say I have never been with MRS. O or hubby, so regardless of their opinions I have never had sex with them nor never would contemplate it. That is one for sure NO WAY JOSE....lol

Put a plug in it O [/b]

Flori_DAMAN I could say the same to you. I am not one for bashing single men as a matter of fact some of my best friends are single men. But the question for this thread was
"Why no single men?" and I have read every post on here and not one time did anyone say ALL men. They were just giving there opinions on why they prefer single men. I dont see where this thread is a place for single men to add there opinion in it anywhere, unless you would like to state why you would not like to invite a single male to join you.

But that said, i think that on most of the threads here, the single males opinion is valued, just like any other opinion. But this particular thread is not for the single male, it is about the single male. And as i see it the board over all is about people expressing their opinions on everything that is brought up. If you can't handle that then no i do not feel you have a place here.

But if you are going to reply to someones post, dont you think that you should read the entire not just the parts that you dont like?

R

[Bob123]

If you look at other posts on this board you will see that all types of people respond. And all types of issues are looked at. This is the way it is here and I hope it is the way it stays. For instance if you look at the poll called "Single guys are you lucky" People who were not single men responded. They responded to what the single men have said and not to the topic itself. Does this show how people are harder on single men? I think that on a post you can respond to what you want how you want. That is how it has seemed to be before.

But if you want each post to only respond to the first answer then everytime you want to respond to what someone said you will have to quote them and start a new thread.

BettyAnn you responded to my post with a post that was not on topic. So have others here. So why should you be any different.

[Bob123]

Or Circular reasoning or Arguing in a circle is thus:

A because B, B because C, C because A.

I do not think that is what I did. Although I may be wrong. Correct me if I am.