No single males? Why not??

[Bob123]

Hopefuly I have learned my lesson. I think that I have. As a single male you are not going to get anywhere in swinging by standing up for yourself or telling people you are not as bad as they think. I really hope I will not complain about how hard things are for men in general or single men in swinging.

I feel for you John. I sincerly do. Before I became a member of this board I was reading through it for a while. If I remember correctly I was crying after reading one of your posts. I am sorry for what you have been through.

I don't know what to think anymore.

[RnLinohio]

OK,

I have not posted a lot of msg on the boards on this web site, but i have read a lot of them. And from what i have read, there is not a lot of single male "bashing". From what i have seen, there may be one or two sly comments from some, then every guy on here takes it to heart, and gets upset over it. It question was asked, why no single males, and as it started out, everyone was giving why they are not interested in single males. No one has said all single males, just some of the ones that they have encountered. That I have seen, not one person on THIS thread has yet to name names.

And i would like to pose a question to all you single males that have been posting your disagreements with what was said.


If what the other posters have said does not pretain to you, then why are you beating your brow over it. A couple of you have even said that you have witnessed some men acting like A**holes. So you are admiting that some men do act that way. If you are not one of them, then why are you trying to defend them?

We personally do have freinds that are single males in this life style, but i am not interested in being with them. So there for we are not saying all single males are that way, just some of them. And i feel that is what the other posters on this thread are saying also.

R and L

[Bob123]

Maybe they feel left out, hurt, unwanted, worthless

[bear_n_bunny]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC
Maybe as an idea for undertanding "the shoe on the other foot" might I suggest this...

If you want to truly understand why many couples and women don't explore single men....

create a couple or female screen name and profile with Yahoo. Then take that screen into a chat room for "romance in x-town" Don't say anything except "HI" to the room and then wait.

See what the single men are actually doing to damage the road for everyone. You'll be appaled!

Try this one on for size. Many years ago, in the pre-Internet days, there was a BBS here in Houston called "Matchmaker" (It still exists today, as a series of web sites for locations all over the world). A buddy of mine and I were discussing it one day, and he told me some of his experiences when he did just what Betty Ann suggested, created a "female" account for himself. I didn't believe some of the stuff he told me that he'd seen and experienced, so I decided to try it myself. Dialed in, created an account as a female, and the first message, THE VERY FIRST MESSAGE I got read "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN FUCKED IN THE ASS WITH A BIG BLACK DICK?". No "Hi, how are you?", nothing. Just that. Needless to say, after I tore this moron 14 new BIG BLACK ASSHOLES, I did not hear from him again. However, that was by no means the only time I got messages of that sort. And I've lost count of the women who have related similar stories to me. Of course, you don't have to be into swinging to put up with this sort of thing, as we all know. And no, not all single guys pull stunts like this; I know I didn't, and during the years I was single, finding willing bed partners was NEVER a problem, nor did I ever have to go near a swingers club or web site to find plenty of ladies more than willing to test the bedsprings to destruction with me. Which again makes me wonder why so many single guys come around swing sites to start with. It's not like this is a target-rich environment where single men are concerned (most couples are NOT interested), and there are plenty of sites (adultfriendfinder, sexyads, yahoo, etc, etc) where a single guy would have a lot more luck in the nooky department.

[Bob123]

If you were an elf and wanted to be a dentist. And only humans were dentists and were sick of elves always trying to be dentists. Yet you were a better dentist than all the other elves and were as good as any human. Wouldn't you be upset that you were denied the chance to be a dentist because most elves are not good at it?

[bear_n_bunny]

Originally posted by Bob123
If you were an elf and wanted to be a dentist. And only humans were dentists and were sick of elves always trying to be dentists. Yet you were a better dentist than all the other elves and were as good as any human. Wouldn't you be upset that you were denied the chance to be a dentist because most elves are not good at it?

I wonder if it ever occurred to the elf that maybe quite a few of the humans already had good dentists they were satisfied with, not to mention how difficult it is to find good dentists (or swing partners) and did not want to change just for the hell of it, or to just make our hypothetical elf feel good about himself...

[RnLinohio]

i like that one bear and bunny

[Bob123]

The point is that the elf is a good dentist. But everyone always goes around saying how elfs cannot be dentists.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

As a single male you are not going to get anywhere in swinging by standing up for yourself or telling people you are not as bad as they think.

Socio-Anthropologically speaking, (IMHO) you are incorrect in that statement. What would be true is if you said:

"As a single male you are not going to get anywhere in swinging by standing up for all single men or telling people they are not as bad as they think."

What does in fact woirk is if you take a personal approach to the issue -- one that takes the reverse stance that you claim in your statement quoted above. Tell me why you're a great guy. Show me why I should invite you into my life.

We must understand that statistically speaking, more couples are looking for women than men -- the thing is, often in order to get that other woman involved, we must accept her hubby/bf too. Then there are the couples that swing MF/MF in the many variations. All of those previous styles leave single guys out by default -- just like we don't let motorcyle riders join in the bicycle race unless they bring a bicycle to ride. It's a statistically insignificant percentage that swings strictly MFM and those are often biM+F+biM

It is fair and reasonable for you to claim that "Bob123 is a nice/friendly/handsome/hung/whatever guy" but it is not reasonable for you to argue that "most single guys fit in fine with couples" because the reality is that most do not but some do. Further, many couples simply are not looking for a guy at all. You're argument then falls on deaf ears -- there is receiver apprehension for no reason other than the listener knows that part of your message (the part that implies men in general as opposed to "some men") is flawed.

To argue that couples should allow single men in their bed when the couple is really interested in FMF or MFMF and not MFM is akin to going to a lesbian club and insisting that the women there are unfairly discriminating against men -- and then wondering why you can't get laid in the Lesbian bar.

This following sentiment is not directed toward anyone in particular (unless the shoe fits); I'm going to find out shortly whether this thread is flame bait or an honest discussion seeking real answers. I am a woman, I am a swinger, I am educated and articulate, and I know none of you here. I have offered to share my opinions and observations. You may now each elect to learn from (or listen but select to ignore) what I am offering or you can continue to argue that "all men are great for swingers, couples shouldn't discriminate against single men" when we all know that couples are free to chose anyone or nobody at whim.

We also know that it is a fact that couples do not invite as many single men into the lifestyle. That fact should not be subject of this debate -- subject of this debate is "why".

Either way, I can follow this thread as flame bait/chain yanking or I can offer my insight. I like a good debate as much as anyone -- even a flame war! Others may offer insight too. The ball is in y'alls court...

[bear_n_bunny]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC

This following sentiment is not directed toward anyone in particular (unless the shoe fits); I'm going to find out shortly whether this thread is flame bait or an honest discussion seeking real answers. I am a woman, I am a swinger, I am educated and articulate, and I know none of you here. I have offered to share my opinions and observations. You may now each elect to learn from (or listen but select to ignore) what I am offering or you can continue to argue that "all men are great for swingers, couples shouldn't discriminate against single men" when we all know that couples are free to chose anyone or nobody at whim.

We also know that it is a fact that couples do not invite as many single men into the lifestyle. That fact should not be subject of this debate -- subject of this debate is "why".

Either way, I can follow this thread as flame bait/chain yanking or I can offer my insight. I like a good debate as much as anyone -- even a flame war! Others may offer insight too. The ball is in y'alls court...

Well, in that case the debate is already over, because I have already answered the question of "why" couples don't invite many single men into the lifestyle, in an earlier post on this thread... Although, to be precise, the question should actually be, "why don't most swing couples invite single men to join with them in intimate fun?" But again, the question has already been answered; it's just that some people don't want to accept the truth of the matter.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

The point is that the elf is a good dentist. But everyone always goes around saying how elfs cannot be dentists.

My husband is a guy that plays flute. He was in an Army band for many years as a flute and piccolo player. Now, we all know that "guys don't play flute and if they do then they're gay..." He does play very very well though!

Imagine the stereotypes when he became a nurse in the early 80's -- damn! a flute toting band geek who'se also a male nurse. (and does hair and makeup -- good for me!) {seems we don't use that term male nurse anymore -- they won the respect of the public and their peers in the early 90's but it was a hard road}

Imagine the troubles he had -- but he overcame by understanding the perceptions and stereotypes and not by insisting that they don't exist. He found ways to make the stereotypes work for him and not against him.

He examined the stereotypes and found niches that were suited to what he was -- as a flute player in the Army (girls play flute and they don't join the Army as often, he was promoted very rapidly due to position vacancies) and later as a nurse in the ER and Mobile ICU (seems alot of the ladies don't like that work either). He then progressed into administration (due the advantages he had as a result of gender inequality as a man in a woman's world) and retired at 38 years old!

Your elf needs to find his niche -- and he probably shouldn't insist that "all elfs are good dentists" since most folks seem to know better. I understand that elves need dentists too. Maybe the gnomes would welcome an elf -- I hear they don't have enough good dentists and they really respect elfs. And what about the fairies? Fairies deserve a good dentist -- even if elves don't like fairies much... Doesn't look like the humans need many more dentists -- they seem to have plenty... IMHO, if your elf really wants to be a dentist for humans then he should keep at it -- but it's going to be a tough road.

[EternallySingle]

I know most couples are not interested in meeting single men. I know most single women in the lifestyle are not interested in meeting single men. I am not here for them. I'm here to share my opinion and read the opinions of others. If I make friends or enemies along the way, thats life, and I'll deal with it as it comes. I have a life outside of this board and I only come here when I'm downloading large files, like I am now.

I don't hold anything anyone says against them, but if someone makes a detrimental remark about a group, expect members of that group to say "hey, clarify that." You can't lump all single men, or all single women, or couples, or blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, catholics, protestants, etc. together and not expect someone to say "So, thats what you think of everyone like me?"

Just use a little more tact and take a little more time when making a post. Isn't that what a lot of couples and single women say to men about sending emails and writing ads?

[bear_n_bunny]

BTW, Bunny wanted to make sure that everyone knew that it was I, the e-vil Bear, making these posts, and not her, the sweet and innocent Bunny, someone who would never allow a single politically incorrect thought to cross her sweet and darling mind...

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Bear_n_Bunny -- I think that the "why" answers that have been provided have been very thorough and well prepared. It seems to me the question that some want addressed is not as much the "why" but instead a question of "what can I do to make myself attractive to couples and swingers?"

Some folks will read this thread and apply some of our points in reverse (ie: not ask immediately if you "want a big black cock in your ass?") and instead apply the socialization lessons they learned as children.

Some folks, I fear, are here for nothing other than distraction and creation of un-needed drama (another thing single men often bring to a couple relationship). I do understand that feelings get hurt on issues like this -- I've been there myself as a 225# woman -- too many times.

I must say, I am enjoying the thread -- made me actually think about some issues. Thanks for the story about the BBS

[EternallySingle]

Flute players ROCK! Especially if they can play 9 other instruments (like me )