Lets be realistic here...

[EternallySingle]

You are a couple. You post pictures with your ad, most of them of the female half of the couple. Most of those of her breasts, either a cleavage shot in a low cut blouse or they are running free. Your ad is full of references to the sexual activities you enjoy. To top it off, you say you are looking for MFM threesomes in addition to other things. Ten seconds after you post your ad, you get fifty emails from single guys. Sound about right?

Okay, you are a single bi female. 10 seconds after you post your ad you get about 250 emails from single guys. Sound about right?

Guess what...anyone who emails you within a day of you posting your ad is nothing but either a horny teenage boy (even if he's in his 50s) hoping to get lucky or a bored middle aged married man looking for a reason to get his wife to divorce him. Those are the only two types of people who have the time to simply wait on people to fill out a profile and email them immediately.

Come on now. Do you really think anyone who has given any thought to what they would say to you would email you immediately? Do you think that anyone who would say "I have a large cock and love to eat pussy all night long" has or does either? Do you think they put any thought at all into their letter?

People get burned in relationships (all types) because of two reasons. First, they are too eager and don't take the time to really investigate who they are talking to and learn what it is the other person has to offer. Second, they don't take responsibility for making first contact, leaving it up to the more 'confident' party to initiate the conversation.

With single women I can understand this. Its what's always worked for you outside the lifestyle, so you think it will work here too. It doesn't. If you wait for the person you want to contact you, especially if that person is another female, you are going to wait forever. And the ones who do contact you will probably be single men posing as a couple or even a woman.

With couples, I truly don't understand. If a couple is looking for anyone, they should initiate contact. Especially if they are looking for a single male.

I have learned, from the few clubs I was able to get into in Oregon and Washington state, that a single man DOES NOT approach couples in any situation. He makes himself available, waits for them to approach him, and finds something to keep himself from getting bored. I used to buy a book of humorous quotes or a joke book before going to a club or house party. That way, I would always have a smile on my face and, more often than not, someone would come over and ask what I was reading. Single women were a trickier situation at clubs.

No, they weren't tricky. They were impossible. If you (well, I) approached one even to say hi, she started looking around for someone to 'rescue' her, which, of course, drew attention to me and made people who might have been open to meeting me withdraw again and wonder about my intentions. Again, it was best to wait until they approached me.

And that is where the problem arises. Men, especially single men, are not trained to sit and wait for people to approach them in social situations. Growing up we are taught to "Get her attention", "Ask her out", "Make a good impression on her", and most of all "Don't be shy and just walk up and introduce yourself".

For single men, that doesn't work in swinging. Why? Becuase, 9 times out of 10, we are going to be dealing with a couple, with another man. And we know, on an instinctive level, that when we walk over, the first thing that pops into his head is "He is going to want to have sex with my wife/girlfriend". If anything about us seems threatening (like seeing a single woman who acted nervous when we asked if she wanted to join us for a drink) he's going to shoot us down with their secret no-play phrase. Also, most single women at swing clubs are there specifically to meet couples and maybe other women. In their minds they can meet men anywhere and they are probably right. While they may worry that they might meet mister right but he cannot deal with swinging, they instantly rule out anyone they meet at a club because they are not there to meet men.

Of course, if you are a single man lucky enough to live in an area where the clubs are at least civil to single men, you have a chance. If you can afford it, or can convince the management to hire you, you can work at all the functions the club holds and eventually become non-threatening enough to the members of the club that they will think of you when things start to get interesting. For those of us who don't live in Arizona or Florida, there only online swinger sites and magazines where we can try to show as much of ourselves as we dare. Then, we get lumped in with all the posers, cheaters, stalkers, and sex fiends.

And someone asked why single men are so sensitive? D*U*H

So, the next time you complain about all the jerks, cheaters, liars, and plain immature asshole single men you've been contacted by and how they soured you to meeting others, ask yourself: How many of them did I/We contact first?

[21mfmarried]

I really feel for you Eternal, I know a lot of times we use the AOL Match Chat to talk to people and meet people (I know AOL sucks, but I get it for $3 a month through a work deal). Anyway, whenever I am the one on there talking, I can never seem to get anyone except for single guys trying to go after my wife. I try to talk to couples and because I am the male or something, I get nothing. It makes me feel like I am single sometimes. But! When my wife gets on there, she gets guys, girl, couples. It is enough to make you sick. So, once again, I tell you, I feel for you.

[Bob123]

I don't want to get off on a rant here but,




I know about all this. 21mfmarried that is what I have been talking about all along. I don't know but it seems like in general society does not care about problems men have. If you are a man and have a problem most of the time you are better off keeping it to yourself. No one wants to hear it. It makes you feel bad when you go into a chat room and cannot even find a female to have a private chat with. Yet when a woman goes on and says anyone want to chat? She get's thirty pop up screens. Of course some of them are going to be the kind of men she does not want. If I went on a chat room and had thirty women after my attention I am sure that some of them will not be what I want. The thing is that this is the way it is for men. We are supposed to make everything easier on women especially when it comes to the mating game. You ask her out so you are the one rejected and not her. You pay for the date. You be the romantic one. You buy her a drink when you meet her so she doesn't have to pay. You open the door for her. You try and make her comfortable. You put yourself out there and let here decide if she likes you or not. You initiate sex. You take it like a man when she turns you down. And most importantly you better not complain about it because you are just lucky she is makeing time for you.

Women have alot of power in the mating game. Men have alot of power in the work place. Why is it alright to listen to women complain about the trouble with their careers in a "man's world". But if you are a single male and say anything about relationships about how you lack power you are a whining pathetic jerk at best and a rapist murderer at worst. Women have been moving up the latter over the years. Their are more females in college than males. When are woman gonna atleist make things a little easier on men. I am not asking women to even share half the burden just to share a little more of it.

I know I am a whiner. I should just grin and bare it. Roll with the punches. Be a man. Take it like a man. And if a woman comes along who wants me I should thank my lucky stars to be graced with her superior femininity.

I have heard people say that men need to get in touch with their feminine side.

I think it is time for women to get in touch with thier masculine side. To step up. Take riskes. Buy a man a drink. Do something romantic for a man. Ask a man for his number. Cherish a man's body. Tell him he is handsome. Let him feel good about himself without telling him he is vain or arragent.

[jen]

I think it is time for women to get in touch with thier masculine side. To step up. Take riskes. Buy a man a drink. Do something romantic for a man. Ask a man for his number. Cherish a man's body. Tell him he is handsome. Let him feel good about himself without telling him he is vain or arragent.

jen -- digs into the mound, looks to first base, nods at the catcher, spits, and throws a fast pitch.

Or something. <EG>

I can't say I know all the women on the planet, but I can say that every woman I do know has done and is in the habit of doing what you are asking.

[OhioCouple]

Perhaps it is where you live, Bob, or the women that you associate yourself with, but, I for one, do not take a man for granted, nor do any of the females that I know.

My husband and I had only dated a few weeks, when I whisked him a way for a surprise 3 day romantic get away (at my expense) for his birthday. I pre-arranged a romantic dinner, had special ammenities placed in the hotel suite and all he knew on that Friday afternoon was to have two changes of clothes packed and the direction in which we were headed. Four hours later, he was very pleasantly surprised. Ten years later, I still do the same sort of things, although it is a tad harder to surprise someone that knows you so well, when you share the same home and bed. But, goodness knows, I try.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by EternallySingle
So, the next time you complain about all the jerks, cheaters, liars, and plain immature asshole single men you've been contacted by and how they soured you to meeting others, ask yourself: How many of them did I/We contact first?

What an excellent post, Eternal. I really had never viewed it in this light before.

I can honestly say that all of my complaints have stemmed from those that have contacted us, and never from those we have contacted. Of course we have been politely told that they didn't feel there was any compatibility in some cases, but never anything that made you just want to go UGH!

Guess what...anyone who emails you within a day of you posting your ad is nothing but either a horny teenage boy (even if he's in his 50s) hoping to get lucky or a bored middle aged married man looking for a reason to get his wife to divorce him. Those are the only two types of people who have the time to simply wait on people to fill out a profile and email them immediately.

This is so true. On both of the pay sites that we have/do belong to the moment our ad/profile went up, we were bombarded with mail. At first it was kind of exciting as due to our age diversity it felt good to think that "Hey, people don't care that we are older....YEA! We are attractive". A real ego booster! Then we discovered that the attention that we were receiving was based soley on the fact that we were "fresh meat", nothing more. It did not take long to figure that out, which is where all of my complaints about people contacting us began. Let's also not forget the ones who sign up and immediately start e-mailing everyone in their local area. They are as bad as the ones that scour the "fresh meat market". In time though, it is easy to read through the genuine contacts and those that are just looking for anyone to bed them. (Couples or singles).

Hmmm, you have given me a whole new perspective on how I view pay sites and what part we play in "TAKING RESPONSIBILITY ".

[NightGoddess]

Bob 123, you bring up an excellent point: Why is it okay for men to take the initiative (and the lumps)...when it seems women just 'sit back' and call the shots?
I ran across a quote that might indicate why that seems to be true:
"My instincts are all against a woman being too frank and at her ease with me. It is no compliment to a man. Where the real sex feeling begins, timidity and distrust are its companions, heritage from old wicked days when love and violence went often hand in hand.” ---Sir Arthur Conan Doyle---The Lost World

We are raised to be compliant and obedient in all matters....except when dealing with a man's approach. Women who approach men are often viewed a sexual predators. And the degree of labeling and the reaction from folks depends sometimes on the woman's age and level of experience.

I'm not saying it's right; I don't think many of us have much practice. As far as sharing costs, or doing some thoughtful little things that are meant to please (like surprising a new gentleman friend with a music CD...) perhaps we lack imagination.

I have a male friend who insists on paying for our meals: I read somewhere that in the 'old days' a lady could find ways to reciprocate if a man seemed like the type who might be offended at not paying the tab. She could buy 2 tickets to a show or event and tell him that they were a 'gift'. She just wouldn't be specifying who they were from, he could accept the tix and save face. I like the idea, and used it to good effect the next time my friend and I went to dinner with my daughter: before dinner I gave my daughter $$ for the meal and at dinner told my friend' my daughter requests we be her guests tonight.'
He still insisted he pay the tip for the meal, but the overall 'gift' idea worked.

As far as power in a friendship or any relationship (which I think is Part 2 of your post...)
I believe it is imperitive we be completely honest with our lovers, friends, and family....to the point of dealing with issues when they come up, rather than wait and let them 'brew'. I'm learning that being 'microscopically honest' is scary, but not as scary or troublesome as facing the truth.
It is also a great way to lay the foundation for any kind of relationship. It isn't always comfortable, but it is far, far more interesting. And the benefits are worth it, I think.

---Anyone care to comment?

[Bob123]

What a great post. You actually thought about what I said and responded without calling me a male chauvanist or a misoginist.

That is great.

That makes me happy.

I gtg now but will reply later.

[NightGoddess]

Thank you, Bob.
Of course you're not a misogynist!
Given enough time and experience, we have all observed individuals who take advantage of another's good-will.

Where we need perhaps to work is finding the 'middle ground'
--something that takes time and good communication skills and a committment to absolute honesty. Now, I don't advocate throwing tact to the winds, but many a misunderstanding can be avoided by the simple statement/question, "I'm not sure I understand what you mean by _______; would you please explain?" ---It isn't easy to park the Ego on ice and admit that we sometimes don't hear the other person correctly.

As I gain more experience on this site, I find the place I need to improve communication is during that private time when I am 1:1 with another. For some reason, the outgoing person becomes silent. Still haven't figured that one out, but I'm going to!

Thank you for the response, and I'll chat you later.

NightGoddess

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by NightGoddess
---Anyone care to comment?

You bring up some good points NightGoddess, but it seems rather 'out dated' to me. I can imagine my mother's world being as one in which the women were so laid back and found little ways to 'reciprocate', but in all honesty I don't see it in the world that I live in today, unless of course they are gold diggers or whatnot.

All of my female friends are much like myself. My children are an even more self-reliant than I was at their ages, in spite of their husbands generosity. Perhaps it is because I spent a vast majority of life, paving my own way, but I have never expected or accepted being taken care of.

During my single years between marriages, I refused to let a man pay my way for anything. To me that meant that they might be wanting to 'buy' sex. If I wanted to have sex with them, I would, but not at the expense of having them 'treat' me for it. I always insured that we were on 'equal' ground and this was understood...upfront, otherwise we had nothing further to talk about, much less getting together.

I am 42 years of age, and that is what I see in my generation (based on the friendships I have), my youngest daughter is 20 and she wouldn't dream of just living off her husband. She continues to educate herself in college, work part time, raise a child and is carrying another one, in addition to insuring that she surprise her husband with things that touch his heart, not necessarily monetary and she definitely lacks no imagination...

[CLITFRIEND]

First may I thank and congradulate Eternal for such a post as this----you really do bring out some good points here in the relationships world.
Generally speaking I do respond to ads in my local area---and on very rare occasions I have resonded to those outside of my area, (Ninjababe for example lives in PA--and I in RI--but I am quite glad that I did respond to her). When I respond to the advertisements--which I am assunming people who pay an arm and a leg to get posted in the first place wants other people to do--I generally respond to those that makes no mention of no single males, assuming that they may be ok with single males.
I never mentioned my cock size--very, very tacky I would think, and I never mention what I want to do to "her"---if she already got a mate---I am assuming that her mate already does that to her. So what more can I offer?
The first letter I send to people--couples or single females--basically says this -- "I know I am a single male, and u have already received trillions of emails from single males. But would it be possible for you to look at my profile and picture---and decide if we might be able to introduce ourselves to each other--and see what may develop?"---If they respond--they respond. If they don't--they don't. Your Idea for waiting a day or two after the original post to send a response is a good one Eternal. So thank u.

Now- to respond to Bob. U might actually be surprise to learn that I actually found a few things that I agreed with you on in your post. But dont get too excited---because I didnt agree with most of it. To me--I don't "expect' a woman to be anything but herself. And I don't think a woman who is going out with a man wants that man to be anybody else but himself. If either person are anybody else--then they are not actually getting to know each other--they are just role playing to set up the scenarios u describe--hence the societal system of dating we ahve today.---So I do agree wwith you there.
But.. and I have mention this in another post of yours--you seem to have a natural knack of bashing the world of womenhood---and I am just wondering why?---I still sense a recent breakup perhaps--I sense you are taking out the feelings of how one woman might have recently hurt u--and therefore--all women should be punished?? If every single woman have responded to u in the manner to which you proclaim in this and other posts--are you saying that women are general in thier behaviors???--Or could it be that this is the type of behavior you are expecting from women in general??

Sorry I got off the subject Eternal--but I had to ask Bob this.

[EternallySingle]

21mfmarried, I just noticed your tagline by Einstien. I used to have that on a poster in my hall locker in high school. Couldn't believe how many people didn't get it. It is still too funny to me.

[EternallySingle]

How come I always spell his name wrong? LOL

[NightGoddess]

"but it seems rather 'out dated' to me. I can imagine my mother's world being as one in which the women were so laid back and found little ways to 'reciprocate', but in all honesty I don't see it in the world that I live in today, unless of course they are gold diggers or whatnot." ----OhioCouple


Ohio,
Could you please explain to me what you mean here? The part where you say 'the women were all so laid back and found little ways to reciprocate' ....you lost me, there, sorry....and where you mention, 'unless of course they are gold diggers or whatnot.' I believe I know what a gold digger is (interested in someone for the sake of their money) but I don't get the drift here, again, sorry...
Thank you.

[OhioCouple]

NightGoddess,

I based my posting on the overall perception that I got from yours. Where as you mentioned that in the 'old days' it was easier to give a gift to a man using tactics to make them think it was a gift from someone other than yourself and that you, yourself have employed that tactic. I just really don't know any men that it would be necessary for me to do that. (Not saying they aren't out there, I just do not know any.)

By being laid back, I was referring to my mother's generation where stay at home mom's rarely worked outside of the home and relied soley on the support of their husbands and lived during a period where they felt as though they could not support their ownselves, so rarely did they leave or do much of anything without the approval or consultation of their spouse.

My point about the gold diggers (and I've known a few) are those that will use whatever deceptive practice in order to get to the riches, regardless of the size of a pocketbook. It by no means was a reflection on your situation, but I've seen the same tactics applied by the 'gold diggers'.