Advice from someone who hasn't even made it work (yet)

[pants_1]

This is a modified version of a post I made on another site on how single men should approach women on adult social networking sites. People seemed to agree with it there. I can't say it has really "worked" for me yet, but I've had some really positive interactions with women by following this outline.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
------------------------------------------------

This is the internet, which means faster access to a lot more people. That doesn't mean you'll find someone automatically. I'm on seven (7) sites, not including this one, and I have had a couple nibbles and that's it, except from women I've just contacted as friends (and many of those ignore me too). Proud to say I've only been blocked once (I think... it just suddenly said the person wasn't taking new e-mail, after I sent it).

Take it from Mr. Sensistive: just be respectful. Many people don't rseem get this, so I'll put it here straight: most guys get really tired of "the chase." Their fantasy is a women who wants to just drop trou and get it on. When they see all these profiles with women and couples talking about how much they like sex, and how little they care for the games that go along with it, they think "hey, that's exactly the way I feel." Some of them may even feel a connection to the person/ people from their profile. So then they approach those people with that in mind, causally, talking dirty, kindof like you might if you were looking to hook up with a guy (I guess).

That is the WRONG thing to do! Nearly every woman wants flowers, even if she only wants to screw you. No, that doesn't mean send her flowers, that means try to be a real human being when you contact them. Treat them with respect, like you would if you were meeting them on the street. Sure, many of them are on here because they want sex, but (nearly) none of them want to be an object. They want to be treated as a person, they want respect for being a human being. Try to find the fine line between talking dirty and degrading, and get back on the other side of it!

The same should go for couples. Treat them as people, and treat them as a couple. Don't ignore the one you're not planning to sleep with... that's a big red flag for both of them. It says you don't respect their relationship. If they are swinging as a pair, that means they are a unit (until proven otherwise), and you need to treat them as such.

Be honest about who you are and what you want, but try to be upbeat and sound like the best person you can be. No one wants to play with someone who is going to drag them down. Confident is great, women like that, but try not to sound like too much of an asshole. And remember, WE hate profiles with no information... imagine what women and couples think! They may just want your body, but they are going to want to be comfortable with all the other stuff around it.

And definitely, show the face! I really don't like profiles without face shots... I can't tell anything about their personality, which is pretty important (to me). Remember that meeting up for sex is a big risk for everyone. Especially if you are a single guy, the burden of proof is going to be on you. If you refuse, it sends very creepy signals. My wife used to hang with a very rough crowd, but she was on one of those sites for ONE DAY before she ran screaming from the messages she got! She's worried she's going to be claiming my body from the morgue!

Finally, fer cryin' out loud, stop whining about how hard it is to hook up, or how lame the adult sites are! We all bitch a little, but no one wants a whiner! If you don't like it, move on. We ALL have to deal with the 'bots and the fakes and the liars and the scammers and the cheats and the teases. That's life. It is the same out on the town (minus the 'bots), but you can only meet 10-20 people a night in bars. On the internet you can meet several hundred. Be happy we have that opportunity!

Mistakes I think I've made:

• Profile too long and wordy (like this post)
  
• Message subject line sounds generic: I'm now trying to put their name in it, and/ or refer to their profile directly. Be careful... they may not remember everything in their own profile... how often do you read YOURS?
  
• Message too long, saying too much about myself (stupid, amateur mistake, that... I have a profile for a reason)
  
• Not engaging sufficiently: I've heard it is good to end with a question, one that relates to their profile.
  
• Saying something that might come off as critical ("I can't tell much about what you want from your profile," stupid!)

Things I try to do that I think are a good idea:

• I READ THEIR WHOLE PROFILE, and don't write with the intent of hooking up if I don't fit the bill (I have to ask a lot of women if "no married men" means "no cheating men" )
  
• Put my first name in the post
  
• Address them by their name, or the closest thing to it I can get from their handle
  
• Actually put a salutation ("Dear..." ) in so the message doesn't just start abruptly
  
• Have a closing line, and "sign," like a real letter
  
• Bring up parts of their profile I find interesting or which are compatible
  
• Keep the dirty talk to a minimum, and keep it PG-13 or R-rated
  
• Propose talking more, don't go straight to suggesting that you meet up, or at least be more circumspect about it ("we COULD meet up" )
  
• Never propose meeting for the first time anywhere but a public place
  
• BE PATIENT!

There, a whole lot of advice. It's free... hope you got what you paid for!

Jon

[pants_1]

Sorry... I had to post this to change my e-mail notification setting. Is there some other way to do that?

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by pants_1

Sorry... I had to post this to change my e-mail notification setting. Is there some other way to do that?

Yes, click edit on your original post, or click "thread tools" and then "subscribe to thread" (if you aren't already - if you are subscribed it will say "unsubscribe to thread".

[femnewb4u2]

Originally Posted by pants_1

Things I try to do that I think are a good idea:

• I READ THEIR WHOLE PROFILE, and don't write with the intent of hooking up if I don't fit the bill (I have to ask a lot of women if "no married men" means "no cheating men" )
  
• Put my first name in the post
  
• Address them by their name, or the closest thing to it I can get from their handle
  
• Actually put a salutation ("Dear..." ) in so the message doesn't just start abruptly
  
• Have a closing line, and "sign," like a real letter
  
• Bring up parts of their profile I find interesting or which are compatible
  
• Keep the dirty talk to a minimum, and keep it PG-13 or R-rated
  
• Propose talking more, don't go straight to suggesting that you meet up, or at least be more circumspect about it ("we COULD meet up" )
  
• Never propose meeting for the first time anywhere but a public place
  
• BE PATIENT!

There, a whole lot of advice. It's free... hope you got what you paid for!

Jon

Well Done!

[MrkLin]

I have to say, Jon, that it's very apparent that you've not only given this a lot of thought, but you've articulated it quite well. Bravo! You made several very good points, and I don't think anyone could argue your logic. Your advice looks to be very solid, and I think single men could learn a lot from it. Again - very well said!

As far as you not having made it work yet, I think the underlying problem is the fact that you're married, and she doesn't play with you. That's going to turn the overwhelming majority of couples and singles off. It's not something that can't be overcome as people get to know you, but it is the major factor. I took a look at your Swing Lifestyle profile, and did note that you said that your wife can and will verify the fact that she's fine with everything, and that should help, but be aware (and I'm sure you already are) that most people are going to see the fact that you're married as a huge red flag, and therefore be reluctant to contact you.

I'm not trying to tinker with your marriage in any way, shape, manner, or form, but I think that if your wife was included even a small amount, you'd find a lot more doors opening to you. I'll give you an example of what I mean. We know a couple in the lifestyle in which he's the only one who plays. She just isn't interested in sex - even with him (I'm not suggesting that this is your case, BTW.) They're a very warm, loving couple in all other aspects of their relationship - she just doesn't have much of a sex drive at all. They're in the lifestyle mainly for him, as you've probably deduced by now. They meet couples together, go to clubs together, and attend parties together, but it's made very clear, right up front, that she has no interest in playing at all. She'll watch, socialize, flirt, get naked, and party with the best of them, but when it comes to 'doing the deed,' she's just not into it. They're there together for him to meet and play with women - that's it.

Their arrangement works fine for them, and I'm not suggesting you adopt such an arrangement. I'm just giving you an example of a couple who both enjoy the lifestyle, even though she doesn't actively participate in it.

I wish you luck, and hope you keep your chin up. As you become more well known in the lifestyle community in your town, I'm sure more doors will open to you.

And welcome to the Swinger's Board - home of some of the finest people you'll ever meet online - in or out of the lifestyle.

[pants_1]

Thanks everyone!

MrkLin: Yeah, I have learned that it is a red flag, and I don't blame anybody for that! I just try to be upfront and honest, and I respect people who just don't want to mess with it. It's just like any other preference... right now I'm carrying a few extra pounds, as it says in my profile. Lots of ladies don't like that on a guy. I'm not going to complain about it, because that is their right, and they should get what they want. Of course, I can do something about that, and I am.

Your point is well taken, and my wife has in fact offered to do that. Our schedules make it difficult to coordinate, and we have to be sure that no one gets the wrong impression... not that I'm scared of what people will think, I just don't want anyone to feel mislead. But we will probably try that. I don't put that in so many words on my profile though, because it will be at her discretion, on her terms.

Anyway, thanks. And don't worry about me keeping my chin up. I'm trying very hard not to invest too much ego or emotional well-being in this. It's supposed to be fun. I just prefaced these comments so that my level of experience is clearly stated.

Thanks,

Jon

P.S These are by far the FRIENDLIEST boards I've been on. You guys are really sweet. I'm sure it's not all warm fuzzies all the time, but the level of support and encouragement is really wonderful. Thanks!

[MrkLin]

Originally Posted by pants_1

P.S These are by far the FRIENDLIEST boards I've been on. You guys are really sweet. I'm sure it's not all warm fuzzies all the time, but the level of support and encouragement is really wonderful. Thanks!

No, we're not the Brady Bunch, but overall this is a great board. One thing you can count on here is the unvarnished truth - even if it's a truth you really don't want to hear. Trust me - if you were as fucked up as a football bat, some of us here would let you know it - in spades.

Overall, however, the folks here just don't want to see people make the same mistakes we've made, or have seen others make, that ended up in disaster. I'd say that 99% of us here are very passionate about the lifestyle, and hold it very near and dear to ourselves. It just works for us. It DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYONE! We know that, understand it, and, truth be told, warn people away from the lifestyle more often than not.

I think you have the right attitude. I really wish your wife was with you on all of this - I think she's really missing out on meeting a lot of very fun people. But, hey - if it works for you two, then that's what counts at the end of the day.

For the record, if you didn't live half a continent away, we'd contact you...

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

Overall, however, the folks here just don't want to see people make the same mistakes we've made, or have seen others make, that ended up in disaster. I'd say that 99% of us here are very passionate about the lifestyle, and hold it very near and dear to ourselves. It just works for us. It DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYONE! We know that, understand it, and, truth be told, warn people away from the lifestyle more often than not.

This is THE biggest reason why my wife and I have put a lot of energy into this board in reading and posting (though the posting is almost entirely by me). Nothing is sugar coated here. There's real advice, not some lifestyle evangelist telling you how great it will be and not to worry. This makes us trust the advice given here. This was an immense help to us early on, and remains a resource to us. I seriously doubt we'd be swingers without this board.

[iapr]

Crap, my appologies to Pants 1.

I've removed my post, now trying to remove foot from mouth.

[pants_1]

iapr,

You're right, but you're coming a little late to the party. Is there a morbid-smile smiley?

Check out the thread titled The Big Day. You will find that your concerns are well-justified. And you'll find a public apology for my stupidity.

More is going on, but one of the moderators and I have decided that this situation has gone well beyond the realm of a swinging problem, so I'm not discussing it in the forums for a while.

Thank you very very much for your concern!

Jon

[MrkLin]

I came across that thread the day after I had made my comments here, and decided not to modify my comments here because the two threads have absolutely nothing to do with one another. That's just my opinion.

Taken as they are presented, I think the tips Pants offers to single men in the original post are still valid. I offered my advice not knowing the rest of the story, but I think it still fits in with what was presented here. I still think that single men wishing to learn a bit more about contacting couples successfully could learn a lot from reading the original post, and taking some of the ideas presented there to heart.

[absingleman]

Originally Posted by pants_1

This is a modified version of a post I made on another site on how single men should approach women on adult social networking sites. People seemed to agree with it there. I can't say it has really "worked" for me yet, but I've had some really positive interactions with women by following this outline.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
------------------------------------------------

This is the internet, which means faster access to a lot more people. That doesn't mean you'll find someone automatically. I'm on seven (7) sites, not including this one, and I have had a couple nibbles and that's it, except from women I've just contacted as friends (and many of those ignore me too). Proud to say I've only been blocked once (I think... it just suddenly said the person wasn't taking new e-mail, after I sent it).

Take it from Mr. Sensistive: just be respectful. Many people don't rseem get this, so I'll put it here straight: most guys get really tired of "the chase." Their fantasy is a women who wants to just drop trou and get it on. When they see all these profiles with women and couples talking about how much they like sex, and how little they care for the games that go along with it, they think "hey, that's exactly the way I feel." Some of them may even feel a connection to the person/ people from their profile. So then they approach those people with that in mind, causally, talking dirty, kindof like you might if you were looking to hook up with a guy (I guess).

That is the WRONG thing to do! Nearly every woman wants flowers, even if she only wants to screw you. No, that doesn't mean send her flowers, that means try to be a real human being when you contact them. Treat them with respect, like you would if you were meeting them on the street. Sure, many of them are on here because they want sex, but (nearly) none of them want to be an object. They want to be treated as a person, they want respect for being a human being. Try to find the fine line between talking dirty and degrading, and get back on the other side of it!

The same should go for couples. Treat them as people, and treat them as a couple. Don't ignore the one you're not planning to sleep with... that's a big red flag for both of them. It says you don't respect their relationship. If they are swinging as a pair, that means they are a unit (until proven otherwise), and you need to treat them as such.

Be honest about who you are and what you want, but try to be upbeat and sound like the best person you can be. No one wants to play with someone who is going to drag them down. Confident is great, women like that, but try not to sound like too much of an asshole. And remember, WE hate profiles with no information... imagine what women and couples think! They may just want your body, but they are going to want to be comfortable with all the other stuff around it.

And definitely, show the face! I really don't like profiles without face shots... I can't tell anything about their personality, which is pretty important (to me). Remember that meeting up for sex is a big risk for everyone. Especially if you are a single guy, the burden of proof is going to be on you. If you refuse, it sends very creepy signals. My wife used to hang with a very rough crowd, but she was on one of those sites for ONE DAY before she ran screaming from the messages she got! She's worried she's going to be claiming my body from the morgue!

Finally, fer cryin' out loud, stop whining about how hard it is to hook up, or how lame the adult sites are! We all bitch a little, but no one wants a whiner! If you don't like it, move on. We ALL have to deal with the 'bots and the fakes and the liars and the scammers and the cheats and the teases. That's life. It is the same out on the town (minus the 'bots), but you can only meet 10-20 people a night in bars. On the internet you can meet several hundred. Be happy we have that opportunity!

Mistakes I think I've made:

• Profile too long and wordy (like this post)
  
• Message subject line sounds generic: I'm now trying to put their name in it, and/ or refer to their profile directly. Be careful... they may not remember everything in their own profile... how often do you read YOURS?
  
• Message too long, saying too much about myself (stupid, amateur mistake, that... I have a profile for a reason)
  
• Not engaging sufficiently: I've heard it is good to end with a question, one that relates to their profile.
  
• Saying something that might come off as critical ("I can't tell much about what you want from your profile," stupid!)

Things I try to do that I think are a good idea:

• I READ THEIR WHOLE PROFILE, and don't write with the intent of hooking up if I don't fit the bill (I have to ask a lot of women if "no married men" means "no cheating men" )
  
• Put my first name in the post
  
• Address them by their name, or the closest thing to it I can get from their handle
  
• Actually put a salutation ("Dear..." ) in so the message doesn't just start abruptly
  
• Have a closing line, and "sign," like a real letter
  
• Bring up parts of their profile I find interesting or which are compatible
  
• Keep the dirty talk to a minimum, and keep it PG-13 or R-rated
  
• Propose talking more, don't go straight to suggesting that you meet up, or at least be more circumspect about it ("we COULD meet up" )
  
• Never propose meeting for the first time anywhere but a public place
  
• BE PATIENT!

There, a whole lot of advice. It's free... hope you got what you paid for!

Jon

If I didn't know better, I'd say you had compiled all of my previous posts into one post. LOL.

[pants_1]

ABSingleMan,

What can I say, great minds...

No offense, but 99% of this is simply common sense. Unfortunately, common sense frequently doesn't kick in until the 30s or 40s for men.

Seriously though, glad to know you agree!

Jon