The hypocrisy of SOME swingers

[damayor]

I found this message board through Vegasredrooster.com and I've known Lee for years (thanks for putting the link on the home page)

I've been a swinger for over 7 years, mainly as a single male, but what I want to get feedback on is a subject that has always angered me and that's the attitudes of some couples when you turn from a single male into a couple.

I am very lucky to live in a town where single males can come to a club without being sponsored by a couple but I've had more than a few experiences going with a girlfriend.

The situation that I speak of is this....couples who think (and act) like single males are the bottom of the swinger chain will act like your best friend if you bring a woman with you.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not stupid, I know the reason why this is. It's because they are both trying to get to the woman. But guess what....that doesn't change who I am as a person and it sure doesn't change who I was when I came last time as a single male and you could barely give me a hello.

Some simple respect goes a long way in determining if me and my partner are going to play with you.

Am I the only one who's experienced this?

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by damayor

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not stupid, I know the reason why this is. It's because they are both trying to get to the woman. But guess what....that doesn't change who I am as a person and it sure doesn't change who I was when I came last time as a single male and you could barely give me a hello.

If you could give some specific examples of the treatment you're receiving from couples when you go to the club as a single male it would help me understand more about your situation.

I agree that you're the same person when you attend with a woman. However, I think when you go with a woman it does change who/what you are because now you are a couple.

We don't stop and start up a conversation with many single males because we seek couples and we'll increase our chances of hooking up if we devote our time to couples. Most times, if we say a few words to singles it's because we're waiting in line next to each other to order a drink. Unless we had reason to be aloof, we'd smile "hello" in passing, but that's about it.

Now, if we saw you as a "couple" with your woman, there would be a much greater chance of us checking you out, because now you - together - are what we're seeking: couples.

LM

[VegasLee]

No, your not the only one that has experienced this.

It is all about attitude and respect on all sides of the fense. Even you and I have had this conversation.

I see it with many others also. There are people that came as a couple for years then appeared alone only to be shunned. Is it right, no, but that is how many people are, not all, but many.

As I have said many times to many people, ignore it and go on with life.

Do not let the actions of others direct your life and your fun.

I keep it pretty simple, I will abuse anyone.

Life and this Lifestyle is what you make of it. Don't let others do it for you.

[gatorvol64]

Are you finding things different with only the people who didn't play with you as a single man? I imagine, in my state of mind right now, that this is the case. I'm with Lee on this. Don't let them bother you. You wouldn't want to play with them anyway.

Vol

[Chicup]

I hate to break it to you but single males are the bottom of the swinging food chain, get used to it.

And while sometimes they may be both trying to get your woman, what many of us are looking for is partner exchange, wife swapping, you know swinging, not just a guy to bang the wife.

I'll add that while you experience auto rejection as a single male, what do you think happens to couples where one of them is very unattractive, or both? They don't get the time of day either.

People are at clubs to socialize and have sex with other people (mostly) if they have no interest in single males most don't want to encourage you to try or waste their time (and time is limited to hook up).

Now that being said to you, we are not rude to single males, we will say hi, we will be polite though we will let them know right away we are not interested.

I'd think of it this way. I get a lot of salesmen showing up at my work wanting me to buy their crap. If they come with something I have no interest in, I'm not going to give them the time of day, rarely they have something useful to me and I'll be willing to talk. You are basically selling yourselves to these couples, and they just don't want to buy what you have to offer, and may have had rude experiences dealing with single men in the past. We've never been to a vegas club but our closest swinger friends have and they described said club (quite well known) as creepy with an over abundance of single men who seemed to be waiting around for couples to start having sex. As you said you are not sponsored, couples have no reason to think you just are not some creep guy at Vegas looking to get some action while cheating on his wife back in Nebraska. Get over yourself.

[tribbles]

what do you think happens to couples where one of them is very unattractive, or both? They don't get the time of day either.

BS. Maybe where you are but not where we are. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe your area has the same standards but I'm happy ours doesn't! (Can I break out in song? Sing it with me "Everything is beautiful......in it's own way......")

And the point damayor is making, as I read it, is that these couples have seen him more than once...treated him rudely and now suck up to him and kiss ass cuz he has a date with him.

It's not that they didn't have sex with him....the couldn't even be bothered to be nice until they saw him with a lady.

And thus, they do not get any of his couples action cuz he knows them as rude people...not people who just rejected playing with him as a single.

I can talk to anyone at a club....even if for just a few minutes and wish them a good evening...even if I don't want to play with them. If being nice for a few minutes means I miss some 'perfect fuck' then it's not really perfect or worth the cost since I had to be rude to another human being.

Rude is one of the most unattractive traits I know of.

[Dynamar]

The question you seem to be asking, damayor, is "Why do some people act like assholes?" And I wish I had another answer besides "Because they're assholes." And as such, they don't deserve any of your time or consideration.

I agree wholeheartedly with tribbles. Being nice costs nothing, and there are tactful ways of letting someone know you're not interested in playing with them. Doesn't mean you can't be sociable and nice.

[SnowwwWhite]

If the couples were truly "rude" and wouldn't talk to you, my guess is they just were communicating non-verbally what they should have had the class to communicate to you directly: "You're a nice guy, but we don't approve of you coming here without a woman, it makes us uncomfortable and we're worried you'll want a MFM and we aren't looking for that. We don't want you approaching us tonight so we're giving you the cold shoulder and hoping you'll get the message."

If I was a guy, I wouldn't be whining about getting the cold shoulder at a swinger's club! That just makes me think about how silly it is when a girl wears a cleavage-baring top and complains that all the men are staring at her boobs. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?

Swinging is primarily a couples sport, and single men don't fit into most couple's fantasies. Why try to turn logic on its head and get all bent out of shape over it? Yes, those couples who ignored you were probably NOT HAPPY to see you on the nights when you came in alone. Chances are, you probably made them feel uncomfortable and you can bet they're complaining somewhere to someone about those damn "single males."

There's a reason so many swinger's clubs restrict single males... they're not exactly a good fit based on what the majority of swingers find acceptable... and no one wants to feel uncomfortable.

Honestly, I'm surprised there are clubs that even let single guys in. But I guess it is Vegas after all.

[VegasLee]

The club he is talking about I happen to be the host of.

EVERYONE is welcome at our club, couples, single men and single women. As long as they know how to respect people. All People!

26 years ago Mike and Chris opened that club with the belief that Swinging was for EVERYONE! They had been Swingers for over 20 years before opening the place and to this day they believe it is still for everyone.

No place is there a law or rule that says swinging is for couples only. There are some clubs that are that way and that is fine but at our place everyone is and will be treated equal or you are not welcome there. Simple as that.

Two of the biggest and busiest and oldest clubs in the country have ALWAYS allowed single men.

Single men should NOT expect to be treated rudely by anyone, no one should expect to be treated rudely by anyone else at a party of any type.

Honestly, we have more trouble from SINGLE WOMEN then we have ever had with single men in a club.

People with attitudes that ANYONE deserves to be treated rudely have no business in this Lifestyle.

[good times]

Hmm, I don't think we are rude to single males. On the other hand, as some of the others have said, they are not what we are looking for. So, we probably could fall into the category of not giving them the time of day. I am not saying it is right, but as a view from the other side of the fence, our experience has been that if we are anything more than simply polite but evasive, we end up, more often than not, having them follow us around like a stray dog all night. In other words, if they say something to us we will respond as politely and quickly as possible and then move on, but we try to keep our interaction with single males to a minimum so as not to lead them to think we are interested in them for what we came to the club for. And yes, we do tell them early on that we aren't interested, and most guys leave it at that. But every once in a while one will still follow us around, and I'll have to admit, it effects how friendly we tend to be with all of them at first.

One exception though, in our case at least, what I have said so far only applies to single males we see at the club once or twice. We are actually pretty good friends with some of the regular single males that come to the club. Once it is obvious that a single male respects our preferences, namely that we don't play with singles, male or female, it isn't uncommon for one or both us to sit and have friendly conversations with them, especially on a slow night.

[good times]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Honestly, we have more trouble from SINGLE WOMEN then we have ever had with single men in a club.

This has actually been our experience too. If I think of all the problems that we shouldn't have had, but did in the last year, most of them involved single women, and very few involved single men.

[good times]

I also would like to say that we have been to the Rooster in Vegas, and all the single males we interacted with were nice respectful guys.

[Alura]

I go to the Porsche club meetings to talk to other Porsche owners because I'm interested in how they care for their cars, where the good parts prices are, and (rarely) to share a ride in each other's cars, if we're well acquainted.

If some gentleman shows up in a pickup truck and wants to talk about how the Dodge Ram is better than the Ford F-150, We'll be friendly but the Porsche owners won't spend much time talking with him.

If he drives in next month in a concourse 928S, he'll get all kinds of attention and so will his car.

What's not to understand?

Mr. Alura

[SnowwwWhite]

I didn't mean to give the impression that he deserved to be treated rudely. I was just looking at it from the other people's perspective and trying to understand why he may have been treated rudely on a night when he was alone vs. on a night when he was with a woman.

I think that's what he was looking for... another perspective on why that might have happened. I'm not much of a coddler so it didn't occur to me to write a sympathy post in case that's what was expected.

Based on everything I've read in the forums and on the internet, and based on my experience researching local clubs, it appears that MOST couples and/or clubs are not welcoming of single men. Can't speak for everyone, but there must be a reason so many clubs don't allow them. Single men should be prepared for that. I don't see why it would be a surprise to them.

Regardless though, no one should treat someone nice one night and completely ignore them the next based on their date status. That's just rude and there's really no excuse for that.

[Alura]

Thanks, Lee!

Mr. Alura